Self-Deceit and Legalism

Hammster said:

They are possible to obey. And only One Person did it perfectly.

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Agreed, and there is a world of difference between that and your original statement. Thankfully, the Bible doesn't say anything about the need for us to have perfect obedience in order to earn our justification. Again, the fact that repentance has value demonstrates that we aren't required to have perfect obedience.

Hammster said:

I don’t know what the world of difference is.

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Your two statements:

1.) "They were possible to obey. And only one Person did it."

2.) "They are possible to obey. And only One Person did it perfectly."

Your first statement does not allow for anyone but Christ to have met that possibility while your second statement allows for countless people to have met that possibility while only Christ met it perfectly.

Hammster said:

My statements are a difference without a distinction.

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Have people other than Christ obeyed God's law?

Your first statement would answer negatively while your second statement would answer positively, so what is your answer to that question?

Luke 1:5-6 In the days of Herod, king of Judea, there was a priest named Zechariah, of the division of Abijah. And he had a wife from the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and statutes of the Lord.

Hammster said:

Did they need a Savior?

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They already had a Savior if you would take the time to read their story, and were waiting for HIS Prophesied appearance. And they knew HIM when HE came. Why? Because they believed the Christ's Words shown them through Moses and the Prophets. As Jesus Himself explains.

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

And again;

Luke 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

The Mainstream Preachers of their time didn't believe the Word's the Christ gave them through Moses and the Prophets. They refused to submit themselves to this Christ, but had created their own righteousness, and were teaching for doctrines the Commandments of men and not God.

Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, the Wise men and many others, did believe all that was written in the Law and Prophets, and therefore they knew the true Christ when HE came to them.

But the Mainstream Preachers of their time became partial in the Law. They omitted many important matters of the Law this Christ gave men through Moses, judging much of God's instructions as unworthy of their respect and honor.

The contrast between these two examples could not be more clear. One kept the Commandments of God, and God was faithful to keep Him Promises.

"If you do well, shall you not be accepted"?

And this same Christ said it again in the person of Jesus.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

This is why Zacharias and Simeon knew the Savior they were waiting for when HE came. And also why the Mainstream Preachers of their time didn't know the Savior when HE came.

Hammster said:

Tldr. It was a yes/no question. So yes, they needed a Savior. They needed one because of their sin. They could not keep the law. They could be obedient on certain parts at certain times, for sure. Just like us. But they were transgressors of the law.

But let’s take it one step further. Even when we are obedient, we aren’t perfectly obedient because there’s still part of our flesh involved. This is why we need Christ’s righteousness. His obedience was perfect. So when we are in Him, it’s as if we are perfect as well.

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My point is, I believe we should let the Word's of the Holy Scriptures tell us if they were Children of Obedience or Children of disobedience, and then believe what the Holy Scriptures say, even if there are "other voices" who contradict what the Holy Scriptures say. There is only one Savior and Zacharias already knew Him and was awaiting HIS arrival. Zacharias didn't need "another" Savior as he was already a member of the Body of Christ just as Abraham and Moses.

I do agree we need Jesus' Righteousness, as HE was "righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."

Like John said, "we should walk even as HE walked", just like Zacharias, Simeon, Anna and many more members of the Body of Christ.

Hammster said:

Did they need a Savior?

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We all need a Savior. Our salvation is from sin and sin is the transgression of God's law, so being trained by grace to live in obedience to God's law through faith is what Jesus saving us from living in transgression of God's law looks like. To deny that anyone but Christ has obeyed God's law is to deny that Christ has the power to save us from living in transgression of God's law.

Hammster said:

I point you back to James. Transgression in any part is transgression in all. So while you may obey parts of the law here and there, you are a transgressors of the law.

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If we break any law and become a lawbreaker, then we need to repent and to obedience, which is precisely what James was encouraging them to do.

It's an amazing denial of scripture when one says that obedience to the letter of the Law is easy. What's an easy yoke is the Law written in the heart by the indwelling Law Giver, as it is written. We no longer have any need to return to the letter when the Lord has put within us a superior Law that doesn't have to try and pass in through the eye gate and implant within. It's fine to study the Law and all the rest of God's word, but the letter that kills is not the means by which one's redemption is established through faith. Genuine faith is rooted in the inward Law the Lord puts there.

Jr

SwordmanJr said:

It's an amazing denial of scripture when one says that obedience to the letter of the Law is easy. What's an easy yoke is the Law written in the heart by the indwelling Law Giver, as it is written. We no longer have any need to return to the letter when the Lord has put within us a superior Law that doesn't have to try and pass in through the eye gate and implant within. It's fine to study the Law and all the rest of God's word, but the letter that kills is not the means by which one's redemption is established through faith. Genuine faith is rooted in the inward Law the Lord puts there.

Jr

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In Deuteronomy 30:11-14, God said that His law was not too difficult to obey, so believing that is a matter of putting our faith in God's word, though I haven't seen anyone claim that obedience to the letter of the law is easy. God's law has always been spiritual (Romans 7:14), so obedience to the letter of the law has always undermined both the intent of what God has commanded and why Be commanded it, which therefore leads to death just as assuredly as refusing to submit to it by faith. The commandment to honor our parents written down is the same as the commandment to honor our parents written on our heart, so that doesn't change the content of the law to being superior. The New Covenant involves God writing His law on our hearts so that we will obey it, not so that we will have an excuse to refuse to obey it. God is trustworthy, therefore God's law is also trustworthy, and a law that isn't trustworthy can't come from a God who is not trustworthy, so to put our faith in the law is to put our faith in the Lawgiver.

Soyeong said:

In Deuteronomy 30:11-14, God said that His law was not too difficult to obey, so believing that is a matter of putting our faith in God's word, though I haven't seen anyone claim that obedience to the letter of the law is easy.

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If not the letter of the Law, then what Law are you talking about? Was there any other Law at that time?

And besides that, the simplistic interpretation of the cited verses:

Deu 30:11 KJV - For this commandment which I command thee this day, it [is] not hidden from thee, neither [is] it far off.
Deu 30:12 KJV - It [is] not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:13 KJV - Neither [is] it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Deu 30:14 KJV - But the word [is] very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

Stacking your interpretation against what Peter had to say about the Law of Moses in Acts 15, in that it was a burden they could not bear, there is a balance in all this that must be considered. Taking that one section out of its context, especially when it speaks of the Law not being far away for them to seek it out and live it as best they can, you have used language that would indeed convey the idea of ease in obeying the Law. Peter clearly disagreed with you. If man could live the Law so easily, then Christ died for nothing.

God's law has always been spiritual (Romans 7:14), so obedience to the letter of the law has always undermined both the intent of what God has commanded and why Be commanded it, which therefore leads to death just as assuredly as refusing to submit to it by faith.

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Hmm. Well, this is somewhat promising.

The commandment to honor our parents written down is the same as the commandment to honor our parents written on our heart, so that doesn't change the content of the law to being superior.

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And I never said anything changed. What you DID admit about the letter is interesting and refreshing to hear given the things you have said in other places and at other times.

The New Covenant involves God writing His law on our hearts so that we will obey it, not so that we will have an excuse to refuse to obey it.

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It's interesting that a follower of Herbert Armstrong from the WWCOG tried to claim that I'm not a Christian for not celebrating the feast of trumpets and all the other traditions and commands given to the Jews. He even asked if I kept the Sabbath. When I asked him how one does that, he just sat there, looking at me with a blank stare, as if he had never been asked that before and didn't know how to answer.

Jr

The legalists out there who claim we are still bound to learn and follow the Law of Moses, I have doubts they follow it themselves when it says to them that they are required -

- Not to refrain from putting a false prophet to death nor to be in fear of him (Deut. 18:22) (I bet their "out" for this one is current, man-made laws... Gotta love how they can wiggle and squirm out from under God's Law they claim to believe is still binding on us today.)
- To appoint judges and officers in every community of Israel (Deut. 16:18) (I bet you legalists don't do this.)
- To return lost property (Deut. 22:1) (How many legalists point at Abraham's tithe as some sort of principle for tithing today? Abraham obeyed the law of returning property he knew was not his to begin with, and people create in their minds this warped philosophy that is contrary to God's Law and the character or Abraham by keeping the other 90% (give or take).)
- To circumcise the male offspring (Gen. 17:12; Lev. 12:3)
- To put tassels on the corners of clothing (Num. 15:38)
- To bind phylacteries on the head (Deut. 6:8)
- To bind phylacteries on the arm (Deut. 6:8)
- To affix the mezuzah to the doorposts and gates of your house (Deut. 6:9)
- To recite grace after meals (Deut. 8:10)
- Not to reap the entire field (Lev. 19:9; Lev. 23:22)
- To leave the unreaped corner of the field or orchard for the poor (Lev. 19:9)
- Not to gather gleanings (the ears that have fallen to the ground while reaping) (Lev. 19:9)
- To leave the gleanings for the poor (Lev. 19:9)
- Not to refrain from maintaining a poor man and giving him what he needs (Deut. 15:7) (CCN62) (After all, we MUST support the luxuries of our churches first and foremost, right?)
- To give charity according to one’s means (Deut. 15:11) (Except when "pastor" says one must give the primary, largest portion to their "church," only some of which is ever given to the poor.)
- That the woman suspected of adultery shall be dealt with as prescribed in the Torah (Num. 5:30)

...on and on the list goes, the vast majority of which the legalists do not themselves obey, and yet think themselves qualified to tell others that the Law of Moses is still binding upon us Gentiles, even though none of the apostles listed all the 613 Laws for the Gentiles to follow.

- To destroy idolatry and its appurtenances (Deut. 12:2-3)
- Not to travel on Shabbat outside the limits of one’s place of residence (Ex. 16:29)
- To celebrate the festivals
- To rejoice on the festivals (Deut. 16:14)) (Some try to do these things, others do not.)
- To appear in the Sanctuary on the festivals (Deut. 16:16) (Strangely, they think that their little churchianity buildings are the modern "sanctuary" as a replacement of the temple, which is yet again a pathetic bait-n-switch.)
- To eat matzah on the first night of Passover (Ex. 12:18)
- That no chametz be in the Israelite’s possession during Passover (Ex. 12:19)
- To discuss the departure from Egypt on the first night of Passover (Ex. 13:8)

Yes indeed. The list is so full of things that the legalists simply don't do, and that I have money in my cloths that says they don't.

Rom 2:14-15 KJV - For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Jer 31:33 KJV - But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This is why the statement is true where it says, "Legalism is the corruption of virtue caused by misapplying, inventing or over-exalting commandments, feasts and holy days, especially those that do not have any practical application under the New Covenant (in Christ Jesus (Yeshua))."

It is sad to hear legalists rattling their chains to loudly, so as to try and draw others into their chains to become snared as fellow salves to the letter. How pathetic indeed. The emotional appeals for an alleged beliefs, that any part of the Law has passed away, that is merely straw man argumentation. There is a difference between "practical application," as it all being binding upon those who are under the Blood, and having been "done away." No. We do not believe it has passed away, for the Law is the accuser of all who are unrighteous and without Christ Jesus. It is what sheds the light of sin upon those who are under the condemnation of the Law. The damned are condemned by their own sin, for without remission of their sins through faith, there is no salvation for them. What is written in our hearts is vastly superior to the letter.

Jr

SwordmanJr said:

The legalists out there who claim we are still bound to learn and follow the Law of Moses, I have doubts they follow it themselves when it says to them that they are required -

- To appoint judges and officers in every community of Israel (Deut. 16:18) (I bet you legalists don't do this.)

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Deut. 16:18 Judges and officers shalt thou make thee in all thy gates, which the LORD thy God giveth thee, throughout thy tribes: and they shall judge the people with just judgment.

Who has the Lord appointed to be judges and officers? Joshua, Caleb, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Peter, James, Paul. And it seems to me the "LORD" has done just as this Scripture commanded. And i recognize the Judges and Officers the Lord my God has given me, and I believe the Word's God has placed in their mouth.

- To return lost property (Deut. 22:1) (How many legalists point at Abraham's tithe as some sort of principle for tithing today? Abraham obeyed the law of returning property he knew was not his to begin with, and people create in their minds this warped philosophy that is contrary to God's Law and the character or Abraham by keeping the other 90% (give or take).)

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Duet. 22:1 Thou shalt not see thy brother's ox or his sheep go astray, and hide thyself from them: thou shalt in any case bring them again unto thy brother.

2 And if thy brother be not nigh unto thee, or if thou know him not, then thou shalt bring it unto thine own house, and it shall be with thee until thy brother seek after it, and thou shalt restore it to him again.

Abraham gave to Melchizedek of what God had given to him. Abraham didn't give his brothers sheep away, or sell it and tithe 10 % of his brothers property. Besides, the God of the Bible tells us Abraham obeyed God's Commandments, Statutes and Laws. At least, the God of the Bible says this.

- To circumcise the male offspring (Gen. 17:12; Lev. 12:3)

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Duet 10:16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.

17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

The Christ of the Bible's people are all "Circumcised", by a circumcision made without hands, as the Lord intended in the first place.

- To put tassels on the corners of clothing (Num. 15:38)
- To bind phylacteries on the head (Deut. 6:8)
- To bind phylacteries on the arm (Deut. 6:8)
- To affix the mezuzah to the doorposts and gates of your house (Deut. 6:9)
- To recite grace after meals (Deut. 8:10)
- Not to reap the entire field (Lev. 19:9; Lev. 23:22)
- To leave the unreaped corner of the field or orchard for the poor (Lev. 19:9)

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Because you are "intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind," you don't understand why these statutes of God were written.

But Paul tells us to study to show our self approved. Not to just regurgitate what popular religious philosophers of the land are spewing, but to learn from the Holy
Scriptures themselves. As Paul tells us.

1 Cor. 9:8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?

9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

Doth God care for tassels, phylacteries, small pieces of parchment, religious words, corn or apples? Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written:

Just because you aren't interested in the purpose of these statutes, doesn't make them void. Just as "Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn" has a meaning specifically for us, as it did for Paul, even if we don't have an Ox, so also do all these Laws you post have a reason and a purpose. At least according to Paul.

...on and on the list goes, the vast majority of which the legalists do not themselves obey, and yet think themselves qualified to tell others that the Law of Moses is still binding upon us Gentiles, even though none of the apostles listed all the 613 Laws for the Gentiles to follow.

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The man made religious doctrine of 613 laws God placed on the backs of the men HE rescued from Egypt is an insidious lie that can not be supported by any of God's Words. Yet, this lie is at the center of "many" religious men even though some have been shown it is a lie. Instead of calling others sinners and judging them of being reprobates for believing the Word's of God which are written for OUR ADMONITION, maybe you should check your own religious philosophies and correct the falsehoods you are promoting. Or not, you are free to do as you are led.

- Not to travel on Shabbat outside the limits of one’s place of residence (Ex. 16:29)

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28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? 29 See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. 30 So the people rested on the seventh day.

Where is a man's place? Where did you get "residence" from? They lived in tents, they traveled all the time. When the Sabbath came, they rested regardless of where they were. Where they were, being Led by God "was their place".

So it seems you are placing burdens on the necks of men who believe in the God of the Bible, by preaching to them they are sinning against God if they leave their "residence" on His Sabbath. Which is exactly what the Mainstream preachers of Jesus' time did when HE and His Disciples took a walk in fellowship on God's Sabbath. The God of the Bible made no such Law. It was created by religious men teaching for doctrines the commandments of men, not God.

If you understood what the Christ meant when HE said "I will have Mercy and not sacrifice" you would not have condemned those who obey God's 4th Commandment as breaking them.

Ex. 20: 6, And showing Mercy to thousands who Love ME and Keep MY Commandments.

- To celebrate the festivals
- To rejoice on the festivals (Deut. 16:14)) (Some try to do these things, others do not.)

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Duet 16:13 Thou shalt observe the feast of tabernacles seven days, after that thou hast gathered in thy corn and thy wine:

14 And thou shalt rejoice in thy feast, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite, the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are within thy gates.

15 Seven days shalt thou keep a solemn feast unto the LORD thy God in the place which the LORD shall choose: because the LORD thy God shall bless thee in all thine increase, and in all the works of thine hands, therefore thou shalt surely rejoice.

Those who are the Christ's are strangers in a strange land, living in temporary dwellings, looking for a continuing city. This Holy Feast of the Christ keep us in remembrance to this.

1 Cor. 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Do you believe Paul let religious men judge him, or the Gentiles he taught, for "Keeping the Feasts" of the Christ of the Bible?

Did he allow religious men to "beguile him of his reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind"?

I think not!!

- To appear in the Sanctuary on the festivals (Deut. 16:16) (Strangely, they think that their little churchianity buildings are the modern "sanctuary" as a replacement of the temple, which is yet again a pathetic bait-n-switch.)

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Finally you are preaching something I can agree with. I am 100% in agreement with you here. The practice of gathering in temples made of wood and stone, with priests in the chief seats of the house, many times in long flowing robes, is just a warped version of the Levitical Priesthood "works of the law" by religious men who are bringing themselves back under their version the old covenant, just as the Jews were doing to the Galatians.

This is good to point out although I would call it pathetic. "MANY" are simply snared by the prophesied religious philosophies of men, who promote this religious lifestyle. It is for them that I spend my time on these posts.

Notice when the Apostles gathered on Feast of Weeks, or Pentecost, they didn't gather in temples made of wood and stone, they were all gathered, but not in the religious temple of that time.

Tomorrow is another important "Feast of the Christ, and we will also gather, like the Disciples did on Pentecost. It is a joyous occasion.

- To eat matzah on the first night of Passover (Ex. 12:18)
- That no chametz be in the Israelite’s possession during Passover (Ex. 12:19)
- To discuss the departure from Egypt on the first night of Passover (Ex. 13:8)

Yes indeed. The list is so full of things that the legalists simply don't do, and that I have money in my cloths that says they don't.

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You would lose your money, as the Christ Himself promised there are at least 7,000 men who have not bowed to Baal. He also said;

Luke 12:31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

There are many little flocks no doubt, but not as many as on the broad path.

Rom 2:14-15 KJV - For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

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Absolutely.

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Jer 31:33 KJV - But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

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This is why Paul and Zacharias kept the Feasts of the Christ, but the Pharisees didn't.

God's Laws were written on their hearts. (Jews first)

This is why the statement is true where it says, "Legalism is the corruption of virtue caused by misapplying, inventing or over-exalting commandments, feasts and holy days,

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This is true, Paul followed the Christ's example regarding these Commandments, not the mainstream religious philosophers of his time.

especially those that do not have any practical application under the New Covenant (in Christ Jesus (Yeshua))

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The God of the Bible said HE would write HIS Laws on the minds of HIS People. And rightly so as Paul tells us they were written for "our sake's no doubt". So there isn't a Feast of the Christ which has no application under the New Covenant. Those truly under the New Covenant have these Feasts written on their hearts. This is how we know which spirit is in us as John gives us the test.

1 John 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

Passover is the beginning of Salvation, not the end as many imply.

It is sad to hear legalists rattling their chains to loudly, so as to try and draw others into their chains to become snared as fellow salves to the letter. How pathetic indeed. The emotional appeals for an alleged beliefs, that any part of the Law has passed away, that is merely straw man argumentation. There is a difference between "practical application," as it all being binding upon those who are under the Blood, and having been "done away." No. We do not believe it has passed away, for the Law is the accuser of all who are unrighteous and without Christ Jesus. It is what sheds the light of sin upon those who are under the condemnation of the Law. The damned are condemned by their own sin, for without remission of their sins through faith, there is no salvation for them. What is written in our hearts is vastly superior to the letter.
Jr

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"What is written in our hearts is vastly superior to the letter."

Only if what is written is the Laws of God.

Studyman said:

Who has the Lord appointed to be judges and officers? Joshua, Caleb, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Peter, James, Paul. And it seems to me the "LORD" has done just as this Scripture commanded. And i recognize the Judges and Officers the Lord my God has given me, and I believe the Word's God has placed in their mouth.

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Those men of old were not practitioners of the lawlessness we see in America today from our very judges and law enforcement and governing officials throughout the nation. Pragmatic political ideology is now the dominant force, not law.

Duet. 22:1 Thou shalt not see thy brother's ox or his sheep go astray, and hide thyself from them: thou shalt in any case bring them again unto thy brother.

2 And if thy brother be not nigh unto thee, or if thou know him not, then thou shalt bring it unto thine own house, and it shall be with thee until thy brother seek after it, and thou shalt restore it to him again.

Abraham gave to Melchizedek of what God had given to him. Abraham didn't give his brothers sheep away, or sell it and tithe 10 % of his brothers property. Besides, the God of the Bible tells us Abraham obeyed God's Commandments, Statutes and Laws. At least, the God of the Bible says this.

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God gave to Abraham the victory, not someone else property. That is exactly what the context shows to us in the words Abraham's conversation with Melchizedek. Abraham did exactly according to the Law by returning to his neighbor what he knew was his neighbor's property. To paint Abraham as just anothr product of that culture around him is to bring down to the dirt a man you have never met, nor do you know.

Because you are "intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind," you don't understand why these statutes of God were written.

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Those sections of those very statutes state why they were written. That is what you have overlooked.

But Paul tells us to study to show our self approved. Not to just regurgitate what popular religious philosophers of the land are spewing, but to learn from the Holy
Scriptures themselves. As Paul tells us.

1 Cor. 9:8 Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?

9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

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And in that, he nowhere demanded they study and follow the Law of Moses, for he would then be contradicting himself in other of his epistles. I won't argue this endlessly with you as you obviously have no ears to hear ALL of what Paul had to say on the subject. This hand-picking of verses out of their context at the exclusion of so many others is a very typical tactic of you legalists, and it's a dead end road trying to convince you otherwise.

Just because you aren't interested in the purpose of these statutes, doesn't make them void. Just as "Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn" has a meaning specifically for us, as it did for Paul, even if we don't have an Ox, so also do all these Laws you post have a reason and a purpose. At least according to Paul.

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Your arguments are groundless. You have no clues as to spiritual things that Paul and the other apostles specifically addressed. The blinders on either side of your eyes do indeed effectively blind you to the broader spectrum of truth of which Paul addressed. It's pointless. You simply are deaf to anything outside that little compartmentalized box of your religion.

Oh well...

Jr

HTacianas said:

We enter in to salvation by the grace of God. Obedience afterwards leads to righteousness.

Click to expand...

The verse you cited literally states "obedience leading to righteousness."

And they still won't accept it?

The only thing you can do is pray for conversion of a heart set in stone like that.