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No wonder no one can understand what you are talking about.... spiritual does not mean non physical...
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No wonder no one can understand what you are talking about.... spiritual does not mean non physical...
So here is where we differ and I appreciate your response.Thanks for taking the time to detail out your position on this. I appreciate the effort.
I chose the second paragraph to respond to, but will respond in general to the whole thing.
Yes, I certainly see doctrines as man-made. An attempt to codify what we believe.
And the creeds were created to do this as well, but in a very concise manner.
The later creeds were created to include more doctrinal hairsplitting than the previous ones. A product of committees with a broader range of doctrinal beliefs to satisfy.
And this is where the problem comes in. If we claim that doctrines are the gospel, or that the gospel is doctrine, who's doctrine will we use? There is a broad range of doctrinal opinion. Do a search on the term "doctrinal disagreement", and see what comes up.
The point I have always insisted on here is that God approaches individuals in their complete ignorance of doctrine. Restoring a relationship with Him is all that matters. Doctrine has nothing to do with it. The individual has a spiritual void that only God's presence can fill. That is enough. Doctrine comes later, if at all. No one is saved by doctrine.
are you a spiritual man ? yes or noNo wonder no one can understand what you are talking about.
The very spirit of antichrist teaches that Jesus no longer remains in the flesh.Post Ascension, Christ appears to Paul as a LIGHT, but no man (Acts 9:3, 7-8). Therefore we understand that the NATURE of a heavenly spiritual body is NOT the same as our earthly bodies (1 Cor 15:44-50). Therefore we may boldly say with the apostle Paul that "though we have known Christ after the flesh, we know him in this way no longer" (2 Cor 5:16). We may boldly call Jesus the King Eternal Immortal INVISIBLE (1 Tim 1:17) and say that "he alone has immortality dwelling in light which no man has seen NOR CAN SEE (1 Tim 6:16). These are ALL proper understandings of Christ's post ascension body. Christ's spiritual body is simply not limited to his incarnational earthly body any more, and even WE here and now are mystically part of that Body of Christ. His body is a mystery (Eph 5:30-32).
Are you discrediting those who receive Christ based on something short of what you consider to be the whole gospel? And who determines what that means? How can these things be measured?Just telling someone John 3:16 and accept Jesus is not the gospel. But that is what happens in Christianity all the time. That is not the gospel but is a part of it and in John 3 there is a whole story behind those words between Jesus and Nicodemus that somehow never gets told in presenting John 3:16. We cannot separate the faith once and for all delivered from the saints from the gospel message, they are the same.
thats the problem emotions and experiences are misleading.Are you discrediting those who receive Christ based on something short of what you consider to be the whole gospel? And who determines what that means? How can these things be measured?
In my experience, the initial salvation event is emotional, not intellectual. A person comes to God because they have nowhere else to turn. I doesn't matter what the message is, or how complete it is. If it seems trustworthy to them, they will go with it.
At the point of salvation, anyone knows enough about God to be saved.How can a person have faith in a God they know nothing about and be saved ?
The initial decision is emotional, not intellectual.Who and what are they placing their faith in and why ?
We all have a God shaped void inside of us that only he can fill.Why does a person even need to be saved ?
In most cases, no.Do they know why ?
Most people understand that basic concept. But it's not terribly important to the transaction.Do they know what sin is and what it cost the Savior ?
Do you recall the story of the Philippian jailer?thats the problem emotions and experiences are misleading.
My spiritual part is nonphysical by definition.are you a spiritual man ? yes or no
do you have a physical human body? yes or no
or are you a spirit with no body ? yes or no
I rest my case.
then the gospel was never presented so a person cannot be saved its simple as that stevenAt the point of salvation, anyone knows enough about God to be saved.
The initial decision is emotional, not intellectual.
We all have a God shaped void inside of us that only he can fill.
Do you have to understand how an oil refinery works to fill the gas tank on your car?
In most cases, no.
Most people understand that basic concept. But it's not terribly important to the transaction.
Salvation is an encounter with the living God. Not an encounter with church doctrine, or a gospel presentation of some sort. God's attendance in the event is of much more importance than the content of the presentation. Not to discount what a gospel presentation can bring to the event, but certainly secondary to the essence of what is happening in the spiritual realm. Here's a personal testimony.then the gospel was never presented so a person cannot be saved its simple as that steven
what is the gospel ?
what would you say to your neighbor if they ask how to be saved ?
I think it was in the 1980s (about the time you were saved), I had a sobering realization.Do they know what sin is and what it cost the Savior ?
The story needs to be told about Jesus, who He is , what He has done and not just accept Him without knowing anything about Him, sin, sacrifice, death, burial and resurrection.
And walking a person through this with Scripture and reading it to them or quoting it if you have it memorized is the power of God unto salvation as Paul says in Romans 1:16- the Gospel message is that power God uses to transform a person from death to life, dead in sin to being alive in Christ. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of Christ. We are born again by the incorruptible seed- the word of God as Peter declares in his epistle.
Well, I am certainly MORE than just that. - lolare you a man with a physical human body of flesh ? yes or no
Now we are getting somewhere. So you as a spiritual man are body, soul and spirit. The spiritual man is one who is controlled by the Spirit of the living God, not the flesh even though we live in our human bodies.Well, I am certainly MORE than just that. - lol
1 Thessalonians 5:23
May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Don't you see the irony with parousia and denying Jesus is a man at His 2nd Coming ?And yet you claim the apocalypse and His second advent has nothing to do with the resurrection??
Seriously?
.