The A & P

Charlie24 · Sep 13, 2020

Saint Steven said:
That has nothing to do with what I wrote. Of course I was referring to us loving our enemies. Now with that clarification, please reply to the post. Thanks.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Why not?
Does he not require that we love our enemies? But you claim that he will incinerate his enemies? And what of those countless billions that have never so much as heard the name of Jesus? Consigned to eternal torment with no hope of escape?

You just can't get it, they incinerate themselves through rebellion.

Those who have never heard the Gospel have no excuse, all men are born with a conscience of God, what they did with that small amount of knowledge will determine their fate. Rom. 2:12-16

Saint Steven · Sep 13, 2020

Charlie24 said:
You just can't get it, they incinerate themselves through rebellion.

Those who have never heard the Gospel have no excuse, all men are born with a conscience of God, what they did with that small amount of knowledge will determine their fate. Rom. 2:12-16

No one incinerates themselves, except maybe a suicide bomber. You are claiming that God carefully (with malice and considerable forethought) created a most cruel and heartless future for the majority of humankind. A crime worse against humanity that is a thousand times worse than anything humankind has ever committed against their own kind.

Even humankind has laws against cruel and unusual punishment. And correctional facilities are intended for that purpose, to correct the behavior. What is the purpose of hell? Two minutes in a place like that with the threat of possible return would be enough to correct any behavior.

But you claim it will be for all eternity with no hope of escape. And that seems peachy keen with you. After all, you figure they had it coming. (and so did you, right?)

Your second paragraph actually aligns with UR somewhat. And this is the scripture you were looking for. An afterlife determined by judgment/testing/correcting of works.

Romans 2:14-16
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

Charlie24 · Sep 13, 2020

Saint Steven said:
No one incinerates themselves, except maybe a suicide bomber. You are claiming that God carefully (with malice and considerable forethought) created a most cruel and heartless future for the majority of humankind. A crime worse against humanity that is a thousand times worse than anything humankind has ever committed against their own kind.

Even humankind has laws against cruel and unusual punishment. And correctional facilities are intended for that purpose, to correct the behavior. What is the purpose of hell? Two minutes in a place like that with the threat of possible return would be enough to correct any behavior.

But you claim it will be for all eternity with no hope of escape. And that seems peachy keen with you. After all, you figure they had it coming. (and so did you, right?)

Your second paragraph actually aligns with UR somewhat. And this is the scripture you were looking for. An afterlife determined by judgment/testing/correcting of works.

Romans 2:14-16
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

The scripture tells us several times that folks are cast into hell, but not one time does it say they are set free from hell.

When you find that verse we can talk about it.

Jesus is YHWH · Sep 13, 2020

Saint Steven said:
No one incinerates themselves, except maybe a suicide bomber. You are claiming that God carefully (with malice and considerable forethought) created a most cruel and heartless future for the majority of humankind. A crime worse against humanity that is a thousand times worse than anything humankind has ever committed against their own kind.

Even humankind has laws against cruel and unusual punishment. And correctional facilities are intended for that purpose, to correct the behavior. What is the purpose of hell? Two minutes in a place like that with the threat of possible return would be enough to correct any behavior.

But you claim it will be for all eternity with no hope of escape. And that seems peachy keen with you. After all, you figure they had it coming. (and so did you, right?)

Your second paragraph actually aligns with UR somewhat. And this is the scripture you were looking for. An afterlife determined by judgment/testing/correcting of works.

Romans 2:14-16
(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.

God didn't create the fall, sin or satan so God gets the free pass, not man.

man gets what he deserves since he hates God by nature and love sin.

Saint Steven · Sep 14, 2020

Charlie24 said:
The scripture tells us several times that folks are cast into hell, but not one time does it say they are set free from hell.

When you find that verse we can talk about it.

The Bible tells us who the last two to go in are. Do you recall who goes in last, and what that means about hell?

Saint Steven · Sep 14, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
God didn't create the fall, sin or satan so God gets the free pass, not man.

man gets what he deserves since he hates God by nature and love sin.

Didn't you say correctly earlier that there is no sin where there is no commandment? Maybe that was someone else.

Are you sure that God didn't create the Fall of humankind? That he never intended it to happen? That he was surprised by it and his "true" plans for humankind were thwarted?

What was the command? Don't eat from this individual tree. Where was the tree placed? In the very center of the garden. Why? So that it couldn't be avoided. Try that with a child in a play room. Put a toy in the center of the room and allow them to play with any toy but that one. You would be setting them up for failure. Like Adam and Eve.

Saint Steven · Sep 14, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
God didn't create the fall, sin or satan

God didn't create Satan? Who did?

Saint Steven · Sep 14, 2020

Without the restoration of all things, creation becomes a colossal failure.
The waste left to burn. Endless misery as a result. What did Jesus say about
those who do not count the cost? (Luke 14:28-30) Universal Restoration makes the whole of creation a good plan. (a story with a glorious ending) Damnationism and Annihilationism make it an eternal failure. Universal Restoration is the much needed reset. A return to the original perfection.

Acts 3:21
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

Rom 8:20-21:
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to corruption and obtain the freedom of the glory of the children of God.

Saint Steven · Sep 14, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
It means they won't enter into His rest until He relents, when He's good and ready. Because He is a gracious God of love, who relents from full punishment and shows mercy. Praise His holy name.

They complain about us taking verses out of context.

Charlie24 said: ↑
God also swore an oath that "they shall not enter into my rest." Heb. 3:11, referring to the Hebrews in the wilderness who rebelled against God for 40 years.

What do you suppose that means?

Saint Steven · Sep 14, 2020

Charlie24 said:
A handful of clay telling the potter what is acceptable and what's not!

Rather than question the doctrines that assassinate God's character, they are supported by adding this insult that claims God is a cosmic tyrant with uncontrollable anger. As if he is an ogre that no one dares to question for fear of being incinerated. Is that the definition of our loving heavenly Father or something else? (I go with the latter)

Jesus is YHWH · Sep 14, 2020

Saint Steven said:
God didn't create Satan? Who did?

who was satan before he fell ?

Der Alte · Sep 14, 2020

Saint Steven said:
...

Saint Steven said:
Rather than question the doctrines that assassinate God's character, they are supported by adding this insult that claims God is a cosmic tyrant with uncontrollable anger. As if he is an ogre that no one dares to question for fear of being incinerated. Is that the definition of our loving heavenly Father or something else? (I go with the latter)

A deliberate misrepresentation of anything taught by those who show that UR is not scriptural.

Charlie24 · Sep 14, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Rather than question the doctrines that assassinate God's character, they are supported by adding this insult that claims God is a cosmic tyrant with uncontrollable anger. As if he is an ogre that no one dares to question for fear of being incinerated. Is that the definition of our loving heavenly Father or something else? (I go with the latter)

I suppose when you see that hell releases no one, you along with SM will refuse to spend eternity with that cosmic tyrant you described.

Der Alte · Sep 14, 2020

Saint Steven said:
...

Saint Steven said:
They complain about us taking verses out of context.
harlie24 said: ↑
God also swore an oath that "they shall not enter into my rest." Heb. 3:11, referring to the Hebrews in the wilderness who rebelled against God for 40 years.
What do you suppose that means?

God did not put a time limit on "Shall not enter my rest." God did not say "Shall not enter my rest until..."

Der Alte · Sep 14, 2020

Saint Steven said:
...

Saint Steven said:
The Bible tells us who the last two to go in are. Do you recall who goes in last, and what that means about hell?

Oh goody we get to play 30 questions.
I think you are talking about about death and hell being the last but they are not.

Revelation 21:4-8
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Although Vs. 4 says "no more death" and vs. 5 says "all things new" three vss. later 8 groups of people are thrown into the lake of fire which is still called the second death.
There is no mention of reconcilitation or salvation after Rev 22:8.

Saint Steven · Sep 14, 2020

Jesus is YHWH said:
who was satan before he fell ?

Lucifer, of course.
Are you going to claim that because he fell that he suddenly was no longer God's creation?
Adam and Eve fell. (obviously) Were they then no longer God's creation? Along with ALL their ancestors? (including us)

Saint Steven said: ↑
God didn't create Satan? Who did?

Saint Steven · Sep 14, 2020

Charlie24 said:
I suppose when you see that hell releases no one, you along with SM will refuse to spend eternity with that cosmic tyrant you described.

I thought you were claiming that we would be joining those in hell. Due to our supposed damnable heretical beliefs.

Charlie24 · Sep 14, 2020

Saint Steven said:
I thought you were claiming that we would be joining those in hell. Due to our supposed damnable heretical beliefs.

According to our conversations past and present you and SM have chosen that route.

Let's make it clear, YOU have chosen that route, not the cosmic tyrant you keep addressing.

Saint Steven · Sep 14, 2020

Charlie24 said:
According to our conversations past and present you and SM have chosen that route.

Let's make it clear, YOU have chosen that route, not the cosmic tyrant you keep addressing.

You can't seriously be claiming that a person's position on the final judgment is a salvation issue. Can you?

1) It's not true.
2) This is a protected area to discuss Universalism.

Saint Steven said: ↑
I thought you were claiming that we would be joining those in hell. Due to our supposed damnable heretical beliefs.

Jesus is YHWH · Sep 14, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Lucifer, of course.
Are you going to claim that because he fell that he sudden was no longer God's creation?
Adam and Eve fell. (obviously) Were they then no longer God's creation? Along with ALL their ancestors? (including us)

Saint Steven said: ↑
God didn't create Satan? Who did?

God created him perfect- without sin just like adam.

did God created adam a sinner ?

The A & P

Newbie

You can call me Steve

Newbie

my Lord and my God !

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

my Lord and my God !

This is me about 1 yr. old.

Newbie

This is me about 1 yr. old.

This is me about 1 yr. old.

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

Newbie

You can call me Steve

my Lord and my God !

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