Is Jesus The Son of God?

April_Rose · Aug 23, 2020

RushMAN said:
Still none. No one said that Mary didn't fit that criteria. The idea is that as God erases our Original Sin when we get Baptized, God removed Mary's before she was born but she still needed a Savior just like us. God is not bound by time and can apply Christ Salvation when He wants. That does not mean Mary was perfect, just that she was born without original sin. *

-------------------
*Note: I believe as the Orthodox and do not believe in Original Sin but Ancestral Sin, which means we are not guilty of Adam's sin only he is. Yes that means I don't believe in Mary being born without Original sin and yes I know it goes against the Catholic Church, but I want to make clear what Catholics believe away from the lies

Sorry but there is nothing about this in the Bible. It never says that God removes Mary's original sin.

ViaCrucis said:
Not quite. The Bible is actually quite silent on this matter. The Bible doesn't tell us if Jesus' siblings are His biological siblings (children of Mary and Joseph), or the previous children of Joseph, or even only close kin, such as cousins. The Greek word translated as "brothers" includes all these definitions.

And all Scripture really tells us is that throughout the duration of Mary's pregnancy with Jesus she and Joseph never had sex. Whether they did after she gave birth to the Lord is unknown.

At no point in the Bible does it say that Mary had sex with Joseph, no where does the Bible say that Jesus' siblings were the children of Mary--those are views which are rooted in mere opinion and conjecture. They may be correct opinions, or they may not be; but they are nevertheless only opinions and conjecture. Scripture is absolutely silent on this subject.

-CryptoLutheran

Fair enough point.

Friedrich Rubinstein said:
Sorry, I don't understand how "She was a virgin after being pregnant with Jesus only because no sexual relations were part of it" contradicts the implantation of an embryo. If it wasn't the natural way and not implantation, what was it then?!

The Holy Spirit.

ViaCrucis said:
Three distinct Persons. They are never separate.

This might sound like mere semantics, but I think we can realize the significance of the difference between these two words if say we were to talk about whether two of your fingers are distinct, or whether they are separate. If they are separated then you might need to rush over to the hospital for surgery, but if they are distinct then you are only recognizing that the one is distinct from the other. I.e. your pointer finger is not your pinky and vice versa.

It is impossible to separate the Three Persons, because of the unity of God's Being. The Father is never separate from the Son, because He is the Father of the Son, even as the Son is never separate from the Father because He is the Son of the Father. The Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Father; thus they are distinct; but they are never separate because they are one and the same God.

-CryptoLutheran

Ahh,.. now somebody has said something that is actually starting to make sense to me. So you're saying the Trinity is like the fingers and toes on your hands and feet?

alertandawake · Aug 23, 2020

Question, how do people understand the term "Son of God"? Is it literal? Is it an expression? How do people here understand "Son of God"

ViaCrucis · Aug 23, 2020

Friedrich Rubinstein said:
Maybe it's because English isn't my mother tongue, but in my translation it says that Mary got pregnant. This does not indicate in any way that her own egg was involved and does indeed allow implantation.

Endless speculation about how the power and wonder of God to accomplish the impossible--the virgin conceived and became the mother of our Lord--is only likely to foster confusion and lead toward errant opinions.

-CryptoLutheran

April_Rose · Aug 23, 2020

alertandawake said:
Question, how do people understand the term "Son of God"? Is it literal? Is it an expression? How do people here understand "Son of God"

That's what I'm trying to figure out. That's the whole purpose of this thread.

ViaCrucis · Aug 23, 2020

Rose2020 said:
Ahh,.. now somebody has said something that is actually starting to make sense to me. So you're saying the Trinity is like the fingers and toes on your hands and feet?

Oh no. Nothing like that. I only wanted to be clear about why it's important we speak of a distinction, but not a separation of the Persons.

We should avoid attempting to find analogies to try and explain the Holy Trinity, as that is only likely to result in confusion and error.

-CryptoLutheran

Soyeong · Aug 23, 2020

Rose2020 said:
I know that this is a ridiculous question because the obvious answer is yes He is. Although it seems like that a lot of people don't believe that and think that the Father and the Son are the exactly the same being and person. Which even though they are alike they are not the same because even Jesus refers to the creator as being His Father and prays to Him. He couldn't pray to Himself. So I just had to make this topic to make that perfectly clear. Jesus is the Son of God and Joseph is His step-father. I've known this even before I turned double digits.

Jesus is the Son of God in the sense that he is the essence of being a chip off the old block, where he has the same character and personality as the Father. When light hits someone, they absorb certain spectrums of light while the other spectrums bounce off of them and make it back to our eye, so we do not actually direct see someone, just the light that has bounced off of them, yet we still recognize what we see as being them, and this is analogous to the relationship with the Son has with the Father. In other words, Jesus is the light that we see when we look at the Father. In Colossians 1:5, the Son is the image of the invisible God, and in Hebrews 1:3, the Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact image of His nature. So the Son is the glory that radiates from the Father, yet we still recognize what we see as being God. Jesus expressed God's nature through his actions and what that looked like was sinless obedience to the Torah, so the Son put who the Father is on display, which is why he could say that anyone who has seen him as seen the Father (John 14:9).

RushMAN · Aug 23, 2020

Rose2020 said:
Sorry but there is nothing about this in the Bible. It never says that God removes Mary's original sin.

It also does not say that God didn't either. Many things are not in the Bible as St. John says in John 21:25. As ViaCrucis about Mary having relations is pious opinion so is this.

Sabertooth · Aug 23, 2020

ViaCrucis said:
...no where does the Bible say that Jesus' siblings were the children of Mary...

"When [Jesus] had come to His own country, He taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished and said,

'Where did this Man get this wisdom and these mighty works?

Is this not the carpenter’s son?
Is not His mother called Mary?
And His brothers

James,
Joses,
Simon, and
Judas?

And His sisters, are they not all with us?

Where then did this Man get all these things?' ” Matthew 13:54-56 NKJV

ViaCrucis · Aug 23, 2020

Sabertooth said:
"When [Jesus] had come to His own country, He taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished and said,

'Where did this Man get this wisdom and these mighty works?

Is this not the carpenter’s son?
Is not His mother called Mary?
And His brothers

James,

Joses,

Simon, and

Judas?

And His sisters, are they not all with us?
Where then did this Man get all these things?' ” Matthew 13:54-56 NKJV

I already covered this in the post which you are quoting from.

-CryptoLutheran

Daniel9v9 · Aug 23, 2020

Well, there is one God, YHWH, and Jesus is YHWH in flesh. Fully God, fully man. He is the eternal Son of God.

Sabertooth · Aug 23, 2020

ViaCrucis said:
I already covered this in the post which you are quoting from.

Matthew 1:18 says "before they came together," implying that they "came together," eventually.

WanderedHome · Aug 23, 2020

Rose2020 said:
I know that this is a ridiculous question because the obvious answer is yes He is. Although it seems like that a lot of people don't believe that and think that the Father and the Son are the exactly the same being and person. Which even though they are alike they are not the same because even Jesus refers to the creator as being His Father and prays to Him. He couldn't pray to Himself. So I just had to make this topic to make that perfectly clear. Jesus is the Son of God and Joseph is His step-father. I've known this even before I turned double digits.

Jesus is the Son of God and He is God. Joseph is more like a caretaker than a step-father.

April_Rose · Aug 23, 2020

ViaCrucis said:
Oh no. Nothing like that. I only wanted to be clear about why it's important we speak of a distinction, but not a separation of the Persons.

We should avoid attempting to find analogies to try and explain the Holy Trinity, as that is only likely to result in confusion and error.

-CryptoLutheran

Lol just so you know right now this represents my brain of trying to understand the Trinity. XD

RushMAN said:
It also does not say that God didn't either. Many things are not in the Bible as St. John says in John 21:25. As ViaCrucis about Mary having relations is pious opinion so is this.

So where do you get this idea from then?

Carl Emerson · Aug 23, 2020

Rose2020 said:
That's what I'm trying to figure out. That's the whole purpose of this thread.

As I was saying on another thread - the terms Father and Son are anthropomorphic and dont fully describe the wonder of how the trinity relates.

These words are sanctioned by God as adequate to represent Him but in fact fall quite short given the complex nature of the Godhead.

It needs to remain a mystery that we will ponder on through eternity and be joyfully captured by the wonderment of it all.

So the aim is not to have perfect definitions but to honour the One who is Three that together embrace us with perfect Love.

TenthAveN · Aug 23, 2020

If Joseph wasn’t the father of Jesus, then why would the genealogy of Jesus be included in Matthew?

James A · Aug 23, 2020

Friedrich Rubinstein said:
And Mary is a surrogate mother, God doesn't have a mother.
Before you start the heated discussion please look for a bible verse that says "Mary was free of original sin".

Catholic and Orthodox churches honor St. Mary as Bearer of God in their Liturgy

throughfiierytrial · Aug 23, 2020

Rose2020 said:
I know that this is a ridiculous question because the obvious answer is yes He is. Although it seems like that a lot of people don't believe that and think that the Father and the Son are the exactly the same being and person. Which even though they are alike they are not the same because even Jesus refers to the creator as being His Father and prays to Him. He couldn't pray to Himself. So I just had to make this topic to make that perfectly clear. Jesus is the Son of God and Joseph is His step-father. I've known this even before I turned double digits.

In which passages does Jesus refer to God the Father as THE (one and only) Creator.
God said in Genesis 1:26...let us make man...also...
see Hebrews 1:2-3:
...but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
...see also...
Colossians 1:15-17:
The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

James A · Aug 23, 2020

ewq1938 said:
The bible does not support that conclusion as Jesus was Mary's first child.

Does it say Mary had children other than Jesus?

RushMAN · Aug 23, 2020

Rose2020 said:
So where do you get this idea from then?

From the Church

April_Rose · Aug 23, 2020

RushMAN said:
From the Church

Who got it from,..???

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