Why the Last Judgment?

d taylor

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Yes, the scene is like a trial in a court.


You're saying that the Book of Life is opened to prove to those who are not true believers that their names are not in the Book.

Rev 20:15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, that person was thrown into the lake of fire.

Some readers may accept your interpretation. To me, it sounds like they were searching the record for the benefit of the court, not only the accused. And that names of some souls in Hades might have been in the Book, they may be saved.

How about the following passage:

Rev 5:13 Then I heard every creature—in heaven, on earth, under the earth, in the sea, and all that is in them—singing:

“To the one seated on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise, honor, glory, and ruling power forever and ever!”

Under the earth = in Hades.

How come souls in Hades / under the earth praise the Lord? Are they saved?

And the following verse:

Phi 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

It sounds like some souls in Hades / under the earth worship Christ, don't they?

Are they being coerced against their God-given free will?

They come to realize that God is the one true God, are they forced to do this, to praise God ?

I do not believe they are forced to realize that God is the true God of creation.
 
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Andrewn

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They come to realize that God is the one true God, are they forced to do this, to praise God ?

I do not believe they are forced to realize that God is the true God of creation.
Good. Does this mean that some souls in Hades are saved?
 
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Andrewn

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Do not think so. you have evidence
I think so. For years, my only hint was that the Lord Saved souls out of Hades between His crucifixion and resurrection (as in post #2). Why would He change his approach when there are still billions of people throughout history who have not had an adequate chance to believe in Him in this life? "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." (Heb 13:8)

But I didn't know of concrete biblical evidence. Very recently, I saw the 3 verses I quoted from Rev 20, Rev 5, and Phi 2, which represent sufficient proof for me. I can add to these the following:

Rom 14:11 For it is written,

“As I live, says Adonai,
every knee shall bow to Me,
and every tongue shall give praise to God.”

The following video reviews the issue. It's rather long but worth watching:


 
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Der Alte

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I think so. For years, my only hint was that the Lord Saved souls out of Hades between His crucifixion and resurrection (as in post #2). Why would He change his approach when there are still billions of people throughout history who have not had an adequate chance to believe in Him in this life? "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." (Heb 13:8)
But I didn't know of concrete biblical evidence. Very recently, I saw the 3 verses I quoted from Rev 20, Rev 5, and Phi 2, which represent sufficient proof for me. I can add to these the following:
Rom 14:11 For it is written,
“As I live, says Adonai,
every knee shall bow to Me,
and every tongue shall give praise to God.”
The following video reviews the issue. It's rather long but worth watching:

...
Contrary to what UR-its say, scripture does NOT say that all mankind will bow "in reverent love for their Maker." etc.
Exomologeō occurs eleven times in the NT, in addition to Phil 2:11. In the other 10 it never means “whole-heartedly… without reservation (no holding back)”etc.
In Philippians 2:11exomologeō is an aorist, active, subjunctive. The subjunctive is the mood of possibility or potentiality. The action may or may not happen. Every knee should bow not “will bow.”

Matthew 3:6 “confessing their sins,” Matthew 11:25 “thank,” Mark 1:5 “confessing their sins,” Luke 10:21 “thank,” Luke 22:6 “promised,” Acts of the apostles 19:18 “confessed their deeds,” Romans 14:11 “confess,” Romans 15:9 “confess Christ,” James 5:16 “confess your faults,” Revelation 3:5 “confess his name”
…..Scripture says that every knee should bow but only believers will do so freely, willingly in love and faith, the others will be conquered enemies. How will the enemies of Jesus feel?
Matthew 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, *(fn) Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity
…..*(fn)"That day" =the day of judgment.]
After judgment day and “I never knew you: depart from me,” there are no more chances for reconciliation.
The word of God says every knee should bow. It must be important because it is repeated 3 times.

1. Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
2. Romans 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
3. Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
But the " the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, murderers, sexually immoral, those who practice magic, idolaters, liars" etc.[Rev 21:8] everyone who denied God and Christ all their lives will be forced to their knees, i.e. become Jesus’ footstool, and forced to proclaim that Jesus is Lord.
This is another important point it is recorded 7 times in scripture. The followers of UR ignore these verses.

1. Psalms 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
2. Matthew 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
3. Mark 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
4. Luke 20:42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Luke 20:43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
5. Acts of the apostles 2:34-35
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool..
6. Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
7. Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;.
Hebrews 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
What does “make your enemies your footstool mean?” Joshua, the OT type of Jesus, shows us in Josh. 10.
Josh 10:5-15 five kings band together to make war against Israel

Joshua 10:17 And it was told Joshua, saying, The five kings are found hid in a cave at Makkedah….
Joshua 10:22-24
22 Then said Joshua, Open the mouth of the cave, and bring out those five kings unto me out of the cave.
23 And they did so, and brought forth those five kings unto him out of the cave, the king of Jerusalem, the king of Hebron, the king of Jarmuth, the king of Lachish, and the king of Eglon.
24 And it came to pass, when they brought out those kings unto Joshua, that Joshua called for all the men of Israel, and said unto the captains of the men of war which went with him, Come near, put your feet upon the necks of these kings. And they came near, and put their feet upon the necks of them.

Joshua 10:26 And afterward Joshua smote them, and slew them, and hanged them on five trees: and they were hanging upon the trees until the evening.
The enemies of Joshua were made his footstool then destroyed. They did not become faithful, obedient members of his army.
The enemies of Jesus become His footstool as the enemies of Joshua did and nowhere is it written that those enemies will be reconciled.
There is no scripture which states that the enemies of Jesus who become His footstool will be save.
 
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Der Alte

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I think so. For years, my only hint was that the Lord Saved souls out of Hades between His crucifixion and resurrection (as in post #2). Why would He change his approach when there are still billions of people throughout history who have not had an adequate chance to believe in Him in this life? "Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." (Heb 13:8)...
Jesus tells us what His ministry is in Lk 4;18-19
Luke 4:18-19
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Jesus' ministry did not include preaching to spirits in the grave/hell.
The Greek word translated "captives" literally means "prisoner(s) of war."

1 Peter 3:19-20
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
The grave/hell is never called prison in the Bible and prison is never called the grave/hell.
If Jesus' ministry was to saved lost souls in the grave/hell then it was a failure because the only ones saved were Noah and his family and they were alive not dead.
 
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Andrewn

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Contrary to what UR-its say, scripture does NOT say that all mankind will bow "in reverent love for their Maker." etc.
My messages are not about UR but only about the possibility that some souls may be saved / attain saving knowledge in Hades.

I haven't read the rest of your post. Will respond later if the rest of the post specifically discusses Hades and is not an attack on UR, which is irrelevant to the subject being addressed.
 
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Der Alte

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My messages are not about UR but only about the possibility that some souls may be saved / attain saving knowledge in Hades.
I haven't read the rest of your post. Will respond later if the rest of the post specifically discusses Hades and is not an attack on UR, which is irrelevant to the subject being addressed.
I am not aware of any scripture which states clearly and unequivocally that anyone will be saved out of hades or the lake of fire.
My post primarily addresses this quote.

"For it is written,
“As I live, says Adonai,
every knee shall bow to Me,
and every tongue shall give praise to God.”
 
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Andrewn

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Exomologeō occurs eleven times in the NT, in addition to Phil 2:11. In the other 10 it never means “whole-heartedly… without reservation (no holding back)”etc.

In Philippians 2:11exomologeō is an aorist, active, subjunctive. The subjunctive is the mood of possibility or potentiality. The action may or may not happen. Every knee should bow not “will bow.”

Matthew 3:6 “confessing their sins,” Matthew 11:25 “thank,” Mark 1:5 “confessing their sins,” Luke 10:21 “thank,” Luke 22:6 “promised,” Acts of the apostles 19:18 “confessed their deeds,” Romans 14:11 “confess,” Romans 15:9 “confess Christ,” James 5:16 “confess your faults,” Revelation 3:5 “confess his name”
All of the 11 occurrences of "exomologeo" seem to indicate free confession and / or praise, not forced subjugation. I appreciate your comment on the Phi 2:11 being a possibility or potentiality and that not every knee will bow. But it looks like at least some souls in Hades / under the earth will confess and praise as in Rev 5:13 and Phi 2:11 and Rom 14:11.

But the " the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, murderers, sexually immoral, those who practice magic, idolaters, liars" etc.[Rev 21:8] everyone who denied God and Christ all their lives will be forced to their knees, i.e. become Jesus’ footstool, and forced to proclaim that Jesus is Lord.

It is not mentioned in Rev 21:8 or anywhere else that people will be forced to proclaim that Jesus is Lord against their God-given free will. Jesus' enemies who will not confess and offer praise will become his footstool, not literally of course but in the sense os being defeated. I don't believe in UR.

I am not aware of any scripture which states clearly and unequivocally that anyone will be saved out of hades or the lake of fire.
I'm not addressing the LoF at all. There has been numerous and long threads about it. This thread is only to ask the question: What is the purpose of the Last Judgment if there is no chance of changing the ruling made immediately after death?


Can souls in Hades repent? There are few hints but I agree that there no scripture which states this clearly and unequivocally, otherwise we would not be discussing this.
 
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Running2win

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All of the 11 occurrences of "exomologeo" seem to indicate free confession and / or praise, not forced subjugation. I appreciate your comment on the Phi 2:11 being a possibility or potentiality and that not every knee will bow. But it looks like at least some souls in Hades / under the earth will confess and praise as in Rev 5:13 and Phi 2:11 and Rom 14:11.



It is not mentioned in Rev 21:8 or anywhere else that people will be forced to proclaim that Jesus is Lord against their God-given free will. Jesus' enemies who will not confess and offer praise will become his footstool, not literally of course but in the sense os being defeated. I don't believe in UR.


I'm not addressing the LoF at all. There has been numerous and long threads about it. This thread is only to ask the question: What is the purpose of the Last Judgment if there is no chance of changing the ruling made immediately after death?


Can souls in Hades repent? There are few hints but I agree that there no scripture which states this clearly and unequivocally, otherwise we would not be discussing this.

>I think it is crystal clear. You are in error because Jesus says it. Jesus was the one that showed what happens to a soul after death. (Luke 16) He teaches all we need to know on Hell and the lake of fire in the Gospels and His Revelation.

Notice they both died. Jesus even said the rich man was buried. So soul sleep is debunked by Jesus.

They both felt, could talk, were awake and could reason.

Jesus taught there is a great gulf fixed and what? That none may cross over from there to us. There is your answer. I think Jesus knows what He is talking about here.

Notice Jesus taught they have the Scriptures and they will not repent even if someone come back from the dead. There is the second time Jesus debunks some could or will be saved from Hades.

>So, the Bible says everything has to be verified by what in order for the death sentence? "On the evidence of two or three witnesses". If it is too difficult, who do they take the case to? Who is our High Priest? And how many people are in the Trinity? We know this from the book of Hebrews, and John, the Father has committed all judgment to the Son, and the eyes of God (Holy Spirit) are everywhere observing the evil and the good, from Proverbs. And what will they be judged out of? The Law and the Prophets. Sin is what? Transgression from the Law of God. 1st John 3:4,

New Living Translation
Everyone who sins is breaking God’s law, for all sin is contrary to the law of God.

So according to the Law of God, there has to be a trial for a death sentence. That is what the great white throne is all about- the unsaved has to have a trial.

We have already been judged with Jesus, that is why we go to heaven when we die. We are covered by Jesus' blood and have passed from death to life! :amen: This is our "position" before God in Christ. Our "works", those who are our crown of rejoicing will be with us in heaven, all the rest will be burnt up. So that judgment is a done deal too.

The Bible will be one of the books that will be opened. The other is the book of life. As soon as you die, if you have not been recorded in the Lambs book of Life, your name is blotted out and will not be found. This is why everyone does indeed have a chance to come to God. But only the chosen ones, the sheep will respond to the call, the wicked will not.

How will we judge mortals in the Kingdom? By the law of God and what is in the Bible. Some of us will be judges. If we cannot judge in between what is right and wrong now. How will we in the Kingdom? This is the proving ground.

Is there fault with God because He does not allow another chance after death? Cannot the maker of the vessel do want He wants to with each vessel? :scratch:

God teaches us in Exodus 32,

30On the next day Moses said to the people, “You yourselves have committed a great sin; and now I am going up to the LORD, perhaps I can make atonement for your sin.” 31Then Moses returned to the LORD, and said, “Alas, this people has committed a great sin, and they have made a god of gold for themselves. 32“But now, if You will, forgive their sin—and if not, please blot me out from Your book which You have written!” 33The LORD said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book. 34“But go now, lead the people where I told you. Behold, My angel shall go before you; nevertheless in the day when I punish, I will punish them for their sin.” 35Then the LORD smote the people, because of what they did with the calf which Aaron had made.



2“If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the LORD your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, by transgressing His covenant, 3and has gone and served other gods and worshiped them, or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, which I have not commanded, 4and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, 5then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and you shall stone them to death. 6“On the evidence of two witnesses or three witnesses, he who is to die shall be put to death; he shall not be put to death on the evidence of one witness. 7“The hand of the witnesses shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

8“If any case is too difficult for you to decide, between one kind of homicide or another, between one kind of lawsuit or another, and between one kind of assault or another, being cases of dispute in your courts, then you shall arise and go up to the place which the LORD your God chooses. 9“So you shall come to the Levitical priest or the judge who is in office in those days, and you shall inquire of them and they will declare to you the verdict in the case. 10“You shall do according to the terms of the verdict which they declare to you from that place which the LORD chooses; and you shall be careful to observe according to all that they teach you. 11According to the terms of the law which they teach you, and according to the verdict which they tell you, you shall do; you shall not turn aside from the word which they declare to you, to the right or the left. 12“The man who acts presumptuously by not listening to the priest who stands there to serve the LORD your God, nor to the judge, that man shall die; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel. 13“Then all the people will hear and be afraid, and will not act presumptuously again.


19“Now there was a rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, joyously living in splendor every day. 20“And a poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, 21and longing to be fed with the crumbs which were falling from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs were coming and licking his sores. 22“Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23“In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24“And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.’ 25“But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26‘And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.’ 27“And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house— 28for I have five brothers—in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’ 29“But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30“But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31“But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”
 
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Andrewn

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I think it is crystal clear. You are in error because Jesus says it. Jesus was the one that showed what happens to a soul after death. (Luke 16) He teaches all we need to know on Hell and the lake of fire in the Gospels and His Revelation.
Luk 16 doesn't teach about the LoF, but this is not my subject anyway. But it does teach about Hades, which is my subject. It is clear from Luk 16 that souls in Hades have to suffer and are not saved immediately after death bec Abraham said:

Luke 16:26 Besides all this, between us and you a great chasm is firmly set, so that those who want to cross over to you cannot, nor can those from there cross over to us.

All the Bible says is that some of the souls in Hades / under the earth will confess / praise Jesus. This is said in 3 different NT passages including:

Rev 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea and everything in them, responding,

“To the One seated on the throne
and to the Lamb
be blessing and honor
and glory and power forever and ever!”

Notice Jesus taught they have the Scriptures and they will not repent even if someone come back from the dead. There is the second time Jesus debunks some could or will be saved from Hades.
This statement rather debunks that all people will be saved on earth. The Rich man was already repenting and becoming a believer as he saw Lazarus in Abraham's bosom. Even though the chasm prevents transportation, it apparently doesn't prevent communication. Do they have closed TV circuits?

The rest of your message doesn't even address the subject.
 
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Running2win

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Luk 16 doesn't teach about the LoF, but this is not my subject anyway. But it does teach about Hades, which is my subject. It is clear from Luk 16 that souls in Hades have to suffer and are not saved immediately after death bec Abraham said:

Luke 16:26 Besides all this, between us and you a great chasm is firmly set, so that those who want to cross over to you cannot, nor can those from there cross over to us.

All the Bible says is that some of the souls in Hades / under the earth will confess / praise Jesus. This is said in 3 different NT passages including:

Rev 5:13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and on the sea and everything in them, responding,

“To the One seated on the throne
and to the Lamb
be blessing and honor
and glory and power forever and ever!”


This statement rather debunks that all people will be saved on earth. The Rich man was already repenting and becoming a believer as he saw Lazarus in Abraham's bosom. Even though the chasm prevents transportation, it apparently doesn't prevent communication. Do they have closed TV circuits?

The rest of your message doesn't even address the subject.

Cannot pass over seals the deal in your theory. No one will make it out of Hades no matter how much you are searching for it. And yes I know the difference in the words Jesus used.

The rest does address it (why a judgment if it is a done deal) and also disproves your theory. It is appointed once for men to die and then face the judgment. They have to have a trail. I mean we are talking the lake of fire death penalty! You can see that can't you?

If you would read what I wrote, a soul that sins against God is blotted out of Gods book when they die. There is no possibility to be found in the book of life after death if you do not repent and trust in Christ before hand. Because all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. You would have to live a perfect sinless life-if you were to make heaven on your works, so your life would have to equal Jesus'.

God will judge the unbeliever according to His Law, they are not judged until the great white throne. Hades is a holding prison. This is their trial because they are guilty of breaking Gods Law and they get their day in court. It's not too hard to understand. God will give them their day in court.

The last witness against them is the book of life. If your name is not there, it don't matter if you repent in Hades, it's too late.

5The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.

11Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them. 12And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
 
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Andrewn

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Cannot pass over seals the deal in your theory. No one will make it out of Hades no matter how much you are searching for it. And yes I know the difference in the words Jesus used.
You haven't addressed anything in my messages or anything relevant to them.

Enjoy basking in your eternal salvation while your friends and family and others are frying and tortured without a second chance, some without a first chance to hear the Good News.

Matthew 6:14–15, ‘If you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.’
 
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Running2win

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You haven't addressed anything in my messages or anything relevant to them.

Enjoy basking in your eternal salvation while your friends and family and others are frying and tortured without a second chance, some without a first chance to hear the Good News.

So there is your real rub. You don't agree with God. Impartiality is the mark of a righteous judge. When you start to question the decrees of God you are on a slippery slope.

We have to be on His team, He don't have to play on our team. If friends or family is more important than God, we have lost our focus. Listen to the strong words of Jesus:

4“Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! I came not to bring peace, but a sword.
35‘I have come to set a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
36Your enemies will be right in your own household!’l
37“If you love your father or mother more than you love me, you are not worthy of being mine; or if you love your son or daughter more than me, you are not worthy of being mine. 38If you refuse to take up your cross and follow me, you are not worthy of being mine. 39If you cling to your life, you will lose it; but if you give up your life for me, you will find it.

Everyone has had a chance- according to the Scripture, the creation declares there is an all powerful God, but mankind refuses to seek after or acknowledge this God. Jesus died for all who will come to Him. And I believe Gods grace covers the "little ones" who are not an accountable age or mental ability. (that is another discussion)

God does not take pleasure in the death of the wicked, but the wicked are necessary for His purposes. God is not going to miss any of His sheep, and will draw that person in, get the gospel to them one way or the other, and we will all be on the same page about this one day, is all I can say. (John 17)


Unbelief and Its Consequences

18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

24Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

12For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;
 
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Andrewn

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Jesus' ministry did not include preaching to spirits in the grave/hell.
The Greek word translated "captives" literally means "prisoner(s) of war."
1 Peter 3:19-20
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.The grave/hell is never called prison in the Bible and prison is never called the grave/hell.
If Jesus' ministry was to saved lost souls in the grave/hell then it was a failure because the only ones saved were Noah and his family and they were alive not dead.
This is probably said in defense of the view that Jesus only preached to Noah's contemporaries before their death. This view is described as follow in the Cambridge Commentary:

"(2) The other interpretation avoids all these minor difficulties by going altogether on a different track. It has the authority of some great representative theologians, Augustine among the Fathers (ut supra), Aquinas among the Schoolmen (Summ. Theolog. iii. Qu. LII. Art. 3), Bishop Pearson among Anglican divines. It starts with denying that there is any reference at all to the descent into Hades. Christ, it says, went in Spirit, not in the flesh, i.e. before His Incarnation, and preached to the spirits who are now in prison under condemnation, or were then in the prison-house of selfishness and unbelief, or simply in that of the body. He preached in Noah’s preaching, and that preaching was without effect except for the souls of Noah and his household. There is something, perhaps, attractive in the avoidance of what have been regarded as dangerous inferences from the natural meaning of St Peter’s words, something also in the bold ingenuity which rejects at once that natural meaning and the Catholic tradition which grew out of it: but, over and above the grave preliminary objection that it never would have suggested itself but for dogmatic prepossessions, it is not too much to say that it breaks down at every point. It disconnects the work of preaching from the death of Christ with which St Peter connects it. It empties the words “he went” of all significance and reduces them to an empty pleonasm. It substitutes a personal identification of the preaching of Christ with that of Noah for the more scriptural language, as in ch. 1 Peter 1:11, that the Spirit which prompted the latter was one with the Spirit which Christ gave to His disciples. The whole line of exegesis comes under the condemnation of being “a fond thing vainly invented” for a dogmatic purpose. A collection of most of the passages from the Fathers bearing on the subject will be found in the Notes to “Pearson on the Creed” on the Article “He descended into Hell,” and in the Article Eschatology by the present writer in Smith’s Dictionary of Christian Biography."

This passage and other biblical commentaries show that that view is untenable given the Apostle Peter's words.

Evidence for Christ’s Descent Into Hell - Orthodox Reformed Bridge
 
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Der Alte

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It is not too much to say that it breaks down at every point.
1. It disconnects the work of preaching from the death of Christ with which St Peter connects it.
2. It empties the words “he went” of all significance and reduces them to an empty pleonasm.
3. It substitutes a personal identification of the preaching of Christ with that of Noah for the more scriptural language, as in ch. 1 Peter 1:11, that the Spirit which prompted the latter was one with the Spirit which Christ gave to His disciples.
The whole line of exegesis comes under the condemnation of being “a fond thing vainly invented” for a dogmatic purpose.

Pleonism=use of more words than are necessary to convey meaning.
Interesting opinions but no supporting evidence which conclusively shows I was wrong.
Here is how John Gill comments on this passage.

The plain and easy sense of the words is, that Christ, by his Spirit, by which he was quickened, went in the ministry of Noah, the preacher of righteousness, and preached both by words and deeds, by the personal ministry of Noah, and by the building of the ark, to that generation who was then in being; and who being disobedient, and continuing so, a flood was brought upon them which destroyed them all; and whose spirits, or separate souls, were then in the prison of hell, so the Syriac version renders it, בשיול, "in hell", see Rev_20:7 when the Apostle Peter wrote this epistle; so that Christ neither went into this prison, nor preached in it, nor to spirits that were then in it when he preached, but to persons alive in the days of Noah, and who being disobedient, when they died, their separate souls were put into prison, and there they were when the apostle wrote: from whence we learn, that Christ was, that he existed in his divine nature before he was incarnate, he was before Abraham, he was in the days of Noah; and that Christ also, under the Old Testament, acted the part of a Mediator, in his divine nature, and by his Spirit discharged that branch of it, his prophetic office, before he appeared in human nature; and that the Gospel was preached in those early times, as unto Abraham, so before him.
 
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Sammy-San

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Judgement has to take place before His 2nd coming .... all are in the graves awaiting resurrection (dormant sleep) .... the 1st will be of the saved .... the 2nd will be of the unsaved ... and this is consistent with biblical teaching.

the 2nd resurrection is final judgement of the lost .... then they are destroyed by fire along with everything on earth. He then makes everything new.



When one dies earthly death their saved or unsaved status is sealed .... when each ones individual judgement happens is unknown .... but ... all judgement has indeed taken place before He returns.

Revelation 22:12

Berean Study Bible
“Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done.

Do you think the great white throne judgement is a graduation ceremony or the people meet Christ one by one after death?
 
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eleos1954

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Do you think the great white throne judgement is a graduation ceremony or the people meet Christ one by one after death?

No ... people are dormant in the grave (Jesus describes as sleep ... and many many many other verses do as well)

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life (1st resurrection), and some to shame and everlasting contempt (2nd resurrection).

I know judgement takes place before He returns .... when He does the 1st resurrection (of the saved) happens.

Revelation 22:12
Berean Study Bible
“Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done.

The 1,000 years is spent in heaven (the saved with Jesus)

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

after that .... the 2nd resurrection happens , battle of Gog & Magog happens on earth.

The GWT judgement doesn't take place until after the 2nd resurrection (of the lost)

2 Peter 3:7
But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

Malachi 4:1
“For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evildoers will be stubble. The day that is coming shall set them ablaze, says the Lord of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.

1 Corinthians 15:26
The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

Do you think the great white throne judgement is a graduation ceremony...

Is this supposed to be funny ... or ... just a childish innuendo? Rhetorical question.
 
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Sammy-San

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No ... people are dormant in the grave (Jesus describes as sleep ... and many many may other verses do as well)

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life (1st resurrection), and some to shame and everlasting contempt (2nd resurrection).

I know judgement takes place before He returns .... when He does the 1st resurrection (of the saved) happens.

Revelation 22:12
Berean Study Bible
“Behold, I am coming soon, and My reward is with Me, to give to each one according to what he has done.

The 1,000 years is spent in heaven (the saved with Jesus)

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.

Revelation 20:5
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.

after that .... the 2nd resurrection happens , battle of Gog & Magog happens on earth.

The GWT judgement doesn't take place until after the 2nd resurrection (of the lost)

2 Peter 3:7
But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

Malachi 4:1
“For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, when all the arrogant and all evildoers will be stubble. The day that is coming shall set them ablaze, says the Lord of hosts, so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.

1 Corinthians 15:26
The last enemy to be destroyed is death.



Is this supposed to be funny ... or ... just a childish innuendo? Rhetorical question.

Ive seen paintings that look like graduation ceremonies.
 
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