Born once, die twice. Born twice die once.
Seriously, Tim, you're contradicting a scripture in trying to argue my point.
When the bible says that the wages of sin is death.. it is talking about eternal death...
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Seriously, Tim, you're contradicting a scripture in trying to argue my point.
When the bible says that the wages of sin is death.. it is talking about eternal death...
In the OT, they had to sacrifice a pure lamb in order to pay for their sins. The lamb would be killed and blood shed.
Christ was that pure lamb. He died as it was necessary for the death and shed blood as atonement for sin.. Since Christ had no sin... He paid the price for sin.. So, He can pay the price for anyone who asks.
It's like a thief... He is charged and found guilty and must pay a six life times of wages for his fine.
Someone comes along and has the six life times of wages that the man doesn't have..... and offers to pay the fine.. if the thief pleads guilty and accepts the payment for his crimes.
Christ had to pay the price.. It's not our faith in the fact that He could do it.. It's faith that He did it and faith that He will stand for us on judgement.
Grace is getting something that you don't deserve... We deserve eternal death. We get eternal life, which we don't deserve.
Mercy is not getting something that you rightly deserve.. We deserve eternal death but God's has mercy on us and we are spared from our rightful fate due to the fact that our death was by the proxy of Jesus death.
You cannot get away from the fact that sin has a dept of death...
Since He had no dept to pay, being pure and righteous without sin... He paid a dept that He didn't owe..Through His death..... Now.. He can set you free.
Christ had to die to be able to pay this debt.
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Jonaitis
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In the strictest sense, Jesus was presented as a propitiation to be received by faith. It is our faith that obtains all that Christ accomplished through his death. In other words, he suffered under the law that those who are in him are free from the law, in that what it condemned was already condemned in Christ. He did not so much as pay for the particular sins of so and so while at the cross, that's a misconception that misunderstands the biblical language, rather, what was accomplished at his death was applied to the person, under sin, of so and so, that's the way we should see this. He presented himself as an atonement, the Spirit applies the atonement by working faith in us to receive it. It is in him that our sins are erased, not the moment Christ suffered.
This is also the historical position of the Protestant faith.
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Interesting interpretation on the word “repent.” Just when I thought I heard all the definitions on the word “repent.” Anyways, some believe “repent” means: “to believe in Jesus.” Others believe “repent” is: “a change of mind from one's old way of thinking.” Others believe “repent” is defined as: “to exclusively forsake sin.”
I believe “repent” is just another way of saying, “seek forgiveness with the Lord” (Which today would be seeking forgiveness with Jesus). This is then naturally followed by the “fruits of repentance” (i.e. good deeds, and putting away sin). For John the Baptist said: “Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance,” (Luke 3:8).
Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him." This doesn't make any sense if "repent" means believe in Jesus (as some teach) or to have a change of mind about sin (as others teach) or to exclusively forsake sin. Yes, we are to forsake sin as a part of repentance but that comes later after repentance (Which is to ask God for forgiveness of our sin). It also does not make any sense to say that this is referring to switching an allegiance here, either. For how can we reconcile with a brother if we do not say we are sorry vs. just going on about life as if we did nothing wrong?
Acts 2:38,
The New Living Translation says in Acts 2:38 to "repent of your sins."
Douay Reheims says in Acts 2:38 to "Do penance."
New Life Version says in Acts 2:38 to "Be sorry for your sins"
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Sounds pretty complicated.. Not sure what you are even trying to say.
Let me ask...
Would there be salvation for us, through Christ, if He did not die on the cross?
bonus questions:.
Would there be salvation for us, through Christ, if He had of sinned?
Would there be salvation for us, through Christ, if He did not rise again?
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Toro
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The best way I have ever heard it explained is this:
A wealthy judge (God) has a child (humanity). He loves this child, one day this child stands before him, guilty of a crime in which the fine for the crime is too expensive and he knows his child can never pay off.
This judge can not compromise his position as judge, otherwise he is no longer fair and righteous. In his compromise of justice, he would be himself corrupt.
So, to remain just as judge... he finds his child guilty of the crime they committed and in doing so, assigns the proper penalty for the crime.
Then, he steps out of his role as judge and takes up his position as a loving and merciful father. Pulls out his wallet and pays the fine for his child.
In doing so, this judge has not compromised justice, nor has he become corrupt. He found the defendant guilty. The fine for the crime, paid.
It is up to the child whether they accept the price the father paid for them.... or they can foolishly deny him and insist that "they can pay the fine on their own merit"... which... is too high a price. (In this case the price is perfection... in which... all but Christ fall short)
God can not abide sin in His presence any more than you could abide the most vile stench you can imagine. You would track it down and remove it far from you. Just as God must do with sin.
God, being both a loving father and a righteous judge unchanging and perfect, He can not compromise who He is, to do so would be to corruption and imperfection.
As judge, His judgement is that all of humanity is worthy to be removed from His presence (because sin is on each and everyone of us) from Hitler to Mother Theresa. The worst to the "best" of us.
Having passed the righteous and uncompromised judgement.
He then fulfilled His other position as a loving and merciful Father and provided through Himself, the price for our punishment to be paid through Jesus.
By doing so, He maintains who He is, unchanging as Holy and righteous judge.... AND merciful loving Father.
With judgement and verdict passed down and with the penalty paid.... "it is done."
Now, those that truly belong to Him and accept that He paid for their crimes.... recieve freedom... those that reject His gift of mercy, the penalty is still theirs to pay and it is a price so high.... they can never afford to pay it and as such... will be removed far from His presence.
A wealthy judge (God) has a child (humanity). He loves this child, one day this child stands before him, guilty of a crime in which the fine for the crime is too expensive and he knows his child can never pay off.
This judge can not compromise his position as judge, otherwise he is no longer fair and righteous. In his compromise of justice, he would be himself corrupt.
So, to remain just as judge... he finds his child guilty of the crime they committed and in doing so, assigns the proper penalty for the crime.
Then, he steps out of his role as judge and takes up his position as a loving and merciful father. Pulls out his wallet and pays the fine for his child.
In doing so, this judge has not compromised justice, nor has he become corrupt. He found the defendant guilty. The fine for the crime, paid.
It is up to the child whether they accept the price the father paid for them.... or they can foolishly deny him and insist that "they can pay the fine on their own merit"... which... is too high a price. (In this case the price is perfection... in which... all but Christ fall short)
God can not abide sin in His presence any more than you could abide the most vile stench you can imagine. You would track it down and remove it far from you. Just as God must do with sin.
God, being both a loving father and a righteous judge unchanging and perfect, He can not compromise who He is, to do so would be to corruption and imperfection.
As judge, His judgement is that all of humanity is worthy to be removed from His presence (because sin is on each and everyone of us) from Hitler to Mother Theresa. The worst to the "best" of us.
Having passed the righteous and uncompromised judgement.
He then fulfilled His other position as a loving and merciful Father and provided through Himself, the price for our punishment to be paid through Jesus.
By doing so, He maintains who He is, unchanging as Holy and righteous judge.... AND merciful loving Father.
With judgement and verdict passed down and with the penalty paid.... "it is done."
Now, those that truly belong to Him and accept that He paid for their crimes.... recieve freedom... those that reject His gift of mercy, the penalty is still theirs to pay and it is a price so high.... they can never afford to pay it and as such... will be removed far from His presence.
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I know this was addressed to timothyu but it's a good question and my answer would be that all four Gospels talk about the coming of God's Kingdom. Jesus says “The Kingdom of God is at hand.” Looking at the crucifixion with the crown of thorns and "king of the Jews" label it seems to be a kind of enthronment but a very lonely and painful one to go through, not at all like an earthly enthronment with all the pomp and circumstance.
The Bible teaches that this crucifixion overthrows all the dark powers of the world, death and corruption, and Jesus becomes king and his new Kingdom begins. Again, if we ask just how did it do this, perhaps we'lll never really understand it and it will remain a deep mystery. But the Bible makes clear that he has taken the full weight of evil upon Himself and so he died as our representative and therefore as our substitute.
I believe the meaning of this starting of God's Kingdom is that we are meant to work for Kingdom in the power of the Holy Spirit and God will use all the good and kind deeds that we do when he finally ushers in the new heaven and earth. Revelation 21:1;4: "Then I saw 'a new heaven and a new earth,' for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea...'He will wipe every tear from their eyes."
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From what I read... The "Gospel" is the "good news", which is the news that the messiah has arrived and paid the price for the sin of all mankind, tore the veil to the Holy of Holies from top to bottom,
AND this was done through the death and resurrection of the messiah... Christ.
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He had his son nailed to a cross for the sake of sin.
You might wish to reconsider your parade of incredulity.
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Well, I have learned what I did not based on what any church says, but I learned it by studying God's Word and by comparing Scripture with Scripture.
Here is a...
A Biblical Case For Repentance:
Again, at the heart, I believe the Bible teaches that repentance means, "Asking God for forgiveness" (Which of course naturally then leads to the "fruits of repentance", i.e. obedience to the Lord):
Important Note: While I may believe "Repentance" does involve to a certain degree a "change of mind" (like a person changing their mind about their old life of sin), I do not think "Repentance" exclusively means a “change of mind.”
Anyways, here are my ten points using Scripture showing that "repentance" means "asking God for forgiveness of sin."
#1. Acts 2:38,
The New Living Translation says in Acts 2:38 to "repent of your sins."
Douay Reheims says in Acts 2:38 to "Do penance."
New Life Version says in Acts 2:38 to "Be sorry for your sins"
#2. Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him." This doesn't make any sense if "repent" means believe in Jesus (as some teach) or to have a change of mind about sin (as others teach) or to exclusively forsake sin. Yes, we are to forsake sin as a part of repentance but that comes later after repentance (Which is to ask God for forgiveness of our sin). For how can we reconcile with a brother if we do not say we are sorry vs. just going on about life as if we did nothing wrong?
#3. Jesus said in Matthew 12:41 that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would be able to see in Jonah 3:6-10 that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to:
#5. We see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness."
#6. Ezekiel 14:6 says,
"Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;" Repent makes the most sense here if a person is asking God for forgiveness by way of prayer instead of a person just believing in God. Naturally a person believes in God as their Savior if they are planning on forsaking their idols.
#7. We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,
#8. Luke 10:13 says,
"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." This rules out the theory that repentance is exclusively forsaking sin. Granted, forsaking sin always follows true repentance (Asking God for forgiveness of one's sins) but forsaking sin is not repentance. The word "repented" here is describing a one time event because they "repented", sitting in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:6 we learn that the King of Nineveh sat in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:8, the King of Nineveh tells people to put on sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God (i.e. repentance): and then turn from their evil way (i.e. the fruits of repentance).
#9. John the Baptist says we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Fruits are deeds (or obedience to God). How can repentance be the same thing as the fruit? Is the fruit the same thing as the tree?
#10. Jeremiah 8:6 says, "I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle." Here we see the word "repented of wickedness" tied with the words, "What have I done?" This is an acknowledgement of one's sin to God as a part of asking His forgiveness.
Notable Additional Verses that Deal with Repentance The New Living Translation says in Acts 2:38 to "repent of your sins."
Douay Reheims says in Acts 2:38 to "Do penance."
New Life Version says in Acts 2:38 to "Be sorry for your sins"
#2. Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him." This doesn't make any sense if "repent" means believe in Jesus (as some teach) or to have a change of mind about sin (as others teach) or to exclusively forsake sin. Yes, we are to forsake sin as a part of repentance but that comes later after repentance (Which is to ask God for forgiveness of our sin). For how can we reconcile with a brother if we do not say we are sorry vs. just going on about life as if we did nothing wrong?
#3. Jesus said in Matthew 12:41 that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would be able to see in Jonah 3:6-10 that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to:
(a) Cry out to God (i.e. Repentance) (See Jonah 3:8).
(b) Turn from their sins or evil ways (i.e. The Natural Fruits of Repentance).
#4. Matthew 3:6 (which then lines up with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).(b) Turn from their sins or evil ways (i.e. The Natural Fruits of Repentance).
#5. We see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness."
#6. Ezekiel 14:6 says,
"Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;" Repent makes the most sense here if a person is asking God for forgiveness by way of prayer instead of a person just believing in God. Naturally a person believes in God as their Savior if they are planning on forsaking their idols.
#7. We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,
"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).
In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness. This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10.
#8. Luke 10:13 says,
"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." This rules out the theory that repentance is exclusively forsaking sin. Granted, forsaking sin always follows true repentance (Asking God for forgiveness of one's sins) but forsaking sin is not repentance. The word "repented" here is describing a one time event because they "repented", sitting in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:6 we learn that the King of Nineveh sat in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:8, the King of Nineveh tells people to put on sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God (i.e. repentance): and then turn from their evil way (i.e. the fruits of repentance).
#9. John the Baptist says we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Fruits are deeds (or obedience to God). How can repentance be the same thing as the fruit? Is the fruit the same thing as the tree?
#10. Jeremiah 8:6 says, "I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle." Here we see the word "repented of wickedness" tied with the words, "What have I done?" This is an acknowledgement of one's sin to God as a part of asking His forgiveness.
(But They Do Not Use The Word "Repent" or "Repentance"):
"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).
13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18:13-14).
Proverbs 28:13 says whosoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.
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timothyu
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This is what I pay attention to but I am sure the church builders had another in mind.
Acts 19:8 He (Paul) went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the Kingdom of God
Acts 28: 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.
Acts 28: 30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired house, and received all that came in unto him, 31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
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timothyu
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Yes and Jesus said repeatedly His good news was of the Kingdom of God.
Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. 14 And this GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Luke 4:43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.
Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom...
etc.
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timothyu
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Consider that the whole reason we found disfavour with God was due to our discovery of self awareness. We took the knowledge of good and evil to become gods like God but also self determined what good and evil were, usually to serve self and not others. We put our will before the will of God and sought gain at the expense of others.
A reversal of that attitude is called repentance, not only change but an understanding why God's will is always better than our own and His will that we love all as self would eliminate any strife and sorrow and division we create upon this world we have made in our own image.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Luke 16: 15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Acts 26:20 "that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance."
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