Why was the cross necessary?

[Dave L]

Thanks Dave,

I believe it is wrong to sin - to do that which we shouldn't and which we know is wrong even while doing it - and it seems natural then that there should be some punishment to pay for that but I do still wonder why can't God, being God, resolve all that without being wrathful and needing to exercise that punishment? I appreciate your comment.

Sin still costs us physically and mentally in life even though we have eternal life. We might die and go to heaven before our time (so to speak) because of unrepentant sin.

 

[DamianWarS]

I've read and thought about this question quite a lot and tbh I'm nowhere near understanding it. As I understand it, the Bible says that Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins. My understanding of sin is that it is a missing of the mark of our true humanness which is to be image bearers of God and this comes about because we worship idols rather than God. By that I mean we worship created things such as money, sex or power rather than the Creator and so come to reflect those things instead of God.

But how exactly (or even inexactly!) did Jesus' death achieve this? Why was it needed? Couldn't God have achieved this in another way, simply by declaring the forgiveness of sins for example? I'd appreciate anyone's thought on this because I do struggle with it

The cross is necessary because ultimately the law points to death to satisfy it. The cross fulfills the death the law demands.

 

[Dave L]

Ultimately the crucifixion makes God known to believers. Against the contrast of sin, it shows his mercy through salvation. His goodness in punishing sin. His Sovereignty in limiting the atonement to the elect. His wrath in Christ's suffering. It shows his wisdom in devising a way to save by turning evil works of Satan into the glory of God. And more......

 

[Monna]

The ultimate (or "last") enemy is death.

One cannot defeat death by delaying or avoiding it.

One must die, then defeat death by rising to life again. Only then can you know that death has been defeated. Jesus died, "took the keys to death" from the prince of death, and rose again. In doing so, he also removed the long-term spiritual penalty of sin for all who believe and accept it. If you reject the offer, you de facto voluntarily continue to live in subjection to death in all its manifestations.

In his life on earth and death, Jesus deliberately identified himself with sinful people, with the poor, the enslaved, with the disadvantaged, with the sick, with the criminal, though without himself committing sin. He identified himself with sinners very explicitly when he went to John the Baptist and asked John to baptise him with "baptism for the forginess of sins." John objected, because as he said "but you haven't committed any sins - you don't need this baptism." But Jesus insisted, and John complied. As Jesus came out of the water, a heavenly voice was heard, commending him for what he had done "you are my son, in whom I am well pleased."

When Pilate declared him innocent of any crime worthy of death, he then sent him to be crucified and released a convicted criminal at the request of the Jewish religious authorities. (In other words, they chose to be identified with the convicted criminal rather than with Jesus.) Jesus was crucified together with two other known criminals. Pilate then identified him officially and formally in three languages as the king of the Jews.

The Bible teaches that because he identified himself with sinners, to the extent of sharing their death, he also offers sinners the possibility of identifying with him not only in death, but also in resurrection - the defeat of death as the final power over us. Identifying with him in this way (denying oneself, taking up one's cross daily, and following him) is the essence of "believing in him." We believe that he in fact was able to do it, that he did it, and that God will honor his sacrifice by giving life to all who "believe" in this sense. We believe that Jesus died for us - that is, to share with us his victory over death. By dying, he also "bought us back" from death - or as the Bible terms it, He redeemed us.

Jesus had to die to convincingly defeat death, in all it's forms and power.

 

[Cormack]

But how exactly (or even inexactly!) did Jesus' death achieve this? Why was it needed? Couldn't God have achieved this in another way, simply by declaring the forgiveness of sins for example?

Slightly inexact answer: I think the events at the cross are “needed” to forgive us because Gods justice needs to be justified.

God doesn’t just forgive on a whim, but rather takes on the full weight of punishment so that no evil goes away unaccounted for.

As the Bible says, “the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him.”

 

[Hmm]

Great answers there thanks guys and forgive me (I'm probably safe saying that here because you have no choice but to I guess!) if I don't reply to each one individually otherwise there'll be too much of me.

I think the point that's been made a few times that sin is a very serious thing and something that God won't just casually dismiss is a good one. It would be immoral imo if God was so cavalier about other people's suffering that he forgave sin by just uttering a couple of words. I'm comfortable saying that because if God was like that I wouldn't worship him anyway. Similarly, it would also seem that God wasn't too bothered about sin if he delegated the solution, as it were, and let somebody else take the strain of it. It was God himself on the cross in the person of Jesus who bore that pain.

I read an story recently about a Roman Catholic bishop (I forget his name) who told a story about three boys in France who thought they would go to confession for a laugh and confess to the most absurd sins. The first two boys came running out of the confession box delighted with their joke and then the priest decided to take some action himself. He told the third boy that for a penance he had to go to the front of the church and stand in front of the crucifix there and look into the image of Jesus' face and say three times: "You died for me and I don't give a damn." The boy did this once then twice but when it came to the third time he found he couldn't say it again and broke down into tears. The bishop said he knew this story because he was that boy. I think the story is saying that there is something about the cross that is very evocative even when it's meaning is not fully understood. The more you think about it though, the more you realise what a good God we have.

 

[Scott Husted]

I've read and thought about this question quite a lot and tbh I'm nowhere near understanding it. As I understand it, the Bible says that Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins. My understanding of sin is that it is a missing of the mark of our true humanness which is to be image bearers of God and this comes about because we worship idols rather than God. By that I mean we worship created things such as money, sex or power rather than the Creator and so come to reflect those things instead of God.

But how exactly (or even inexactly!) did Jesus' death achieve this? Why was it needed? Couldn't God have achieved this in another way, simply by declaring the forgiveness of sins for example? I'd appreciate anyone's thought on this because I do struggle with it

Why ... because of our own mind.

 

[Hmm]

Why ... because of our own mind.

That's very cryptic.

 

[JacksBratt]

I think it would be good to look first what does the Bible actually say. Don’t mix interpretations with direct words. Bible tells that the reason Jesus came on earth was to declare the good message, sins are forgiven. And that was possible without his death.

That is not biblical. Your statement "that was possible without his death" is false.

If what you said was true.. then why was the cup not taken from Him...

Read:

Matthew 26:39

King James Version


39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

See where it states: "if it be possible"?


It was not possible. All sin dept is to be paid. The debt for sin is death... Christ needed to die to pay for my sins. Or... I had to die..


The only reason Christ could forgive people was because of His death and resurrection, the fact that He was God and had the authority and knew that the price would be paid.. by Himself.

 

[BryanJohnMaloney]

The ultimate (or "last") enemy is death.

One cannot defeat death by delaying or avoiding it.

One must die, then defeat death by rising to life again. Only then can you know that death has been defeated. Jesus died, "took the keys to death" from the prince of death, and rose again. In doing so, he also removed the long-term spiritual penalty of sin for all who believe and accept it. If you reject the offer, you de facto voluntarily continue to live in subjection to death in all its manifestations.

The first answer I've noticed, so far, that doesn't reduce God to some bloodthirsty bastard. It also is part of the answer given by the ancient Church. Christ's death on the cross was not just a blood sacrifice. It was not to sate the bloodlust of a merciless and vengeful non-god. It was part of a process that included becoming the Mediator, the Bridge. Defeating death meant voluntarily submitting to death so that death would be conquered. Death, having been conquered, could then be conquered over and over on behalf of each of us.

 

[BobRyan]

I've read and thought about this question quite a lot and tbh I'm nowhere near understanding it. As I understand it, the Bible says that Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins. My understanding of sin is that it is a missing of the mark of our true humanness which is to be image bearers of God and this comes about because we worship idols rather than God. By that I mean we worship created things such as money, sex or power rather than the Creator and so come to reflect those things instead of God.

But how exactly (or even inexactly!) did Jesus' death achieve this? Why was it needed? Couldn't God have achieved this in another way, simply by declaring the forgiveness of sins for example? I'd appreciate anyone's thought on this because I do struggle with it

Let's get the basic diagram of the problem outlined

1. "Sin is transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4
2. "The wages of sin is death" Rom 6:23
3. The death being identified is the "second death" - the one in Rev 20 after the 1000 years.
4. Romans 3 "God is both JUST AND the justiFIER" (His own sovereign choice... nobody made Him choose it)

There are no humans alive on Earth at the end of the 1000 years - God resurrects all the wicked.. judges them and casts them into the Lake of Fire. This is the "second death" it is the one that "only the wicked" suffer. BOTH the righteous and the wicked suffer the first death.



How is justice done in the case of a criminal? -- (for example: one who murders children)
1. Toss out the LAW entirely and just say "oh well just forget it then".. That is anarchy, chaos, arbitrary. It is NOT justice.
2. Uphold the LAW. (which is being Just)

======================================

To uphold the LAW (i.e. to be "Just")

You must -- get rid of the criminal.
"Ok so we send him to paradise island in the Pacific and he is isolated from everyone else in perfect bliss"

Well then -- get rid of the criminal in a way that is horrific so no one will want to "go and do likewise".
"fine. then torment him in the lake of fire for each and every sin".

3. How can God uphold the Law (be just) AND the Justifier?

A. For the Law to be upheld the penalty must still be paid. So Christ pays it
B. For the Law to be upheld the criminal must still be eliminated. So we have the new Birth Gal 2:20 results. Romans 6:1-4 results
C. to be the "Justifier" the sins must be forgiven and erased and a good record set in its place... the righteousness of Christ given to the Sinner.
D. The huge disincentive to sin - is given for the saints in the form of God dying for their sin - which no one who "Loves God with all their heart and soul" (i.e. the new creation) would want.

ending RESULT:
No more sin
No more sinners
A huge dissincentive against anyone ever choosing to sin

Intelligent beings motivated to always choose right for all eternity via the compelling evidence gained from gospel history.
====================================

PROBLEM: none of that is needed if God simply programs people to be good as the master programmer of Robots.

True! none of that is needed to "persuade" or "motivate" or "compel" to right action if God is willing to stoop to brain-zap-programming. Because if BZP were an option God was willing to use - then He made the huge mistake of not giving Lucifer the BZP treatment before Lucifer even knew he was thinking a wrong thought --- thus saving 1/3 of the Angels, saving Adam and Eve, saving the entire world destroyed at the flood, saving all the wicked for the past 6000 years, saving HIMSELF from dying on the cross.

God paid a HUGE price for sovereignly CHOOSING the "Whosoever will" model instead of BZP -- which is the ONLY logical justification for Christ's death on the cross.

 

[Guojing]

Why was a death required?

Romans 7
Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

We are married to the Law before Christ. In order for us to be free from the Law, either we must die, or the Law must die.

Since the Law will not die, Jesus had to die so that all of us can die to the Law thru his death on the cross. When he rose from the dead, our spirit rose with him. So now, we are free from the law.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I've read and thought about this question quite a lot and tbh I'm nowhere near understanding it. As I understand it, the Bible says that Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins. My understanding of sin is that it is a missing of the mark of our true humanness which is to be image bearers of God and this comes about because we worship idols rather than God. By that I mean we worship created things such as money, sex or power rather than the Creator and so come to reflect those things instead of God.

But how exactly (or even inexactly!) did Jesus' death achieve this? Why was it needed? Couldn't God have achieved this in another way, simply by declaring the forgiveness of sins for example? I'd appreciate anyone's thought on this because I do struggle with it

First, sin is very grievous in the eyes of a holy and just God. When you contemplate the horribleness of sin in our own world that angers you or gets you upset, you are on the right path of how God feels about such sins. Yes, God is also loving, and merciful. But God is ALSO a God of justice, too. If God just had forgiven sin, and there was no price paid for such a sin, then that would make it seem like God does not care about fair justice. God died for our sins so as to pay the penalty for our sins to fulfill the fair requirements of justice. Without justice, or law enforcement in our own society, then there would be no courts to punish criminals and place them in prison, and there would be no police, etc.; If such were the case, most people probably would worry about going for a walk down the street because somebody could either kill them, rape them, or steal from them without any consequences or punishment (i.e. without any justice done). That is what a world without justice would look like. This is why God cares about justice (i.e. fair justice).

Second, seeing the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), Jesus had to die for our sin in our place (i.e. Substitutionary Atonement) (See: Romans 5:8-10) (1 Peter 2:24). He had to shed his blood to cleanse us of our sin (i.e. the Blood Atonement) (See: 1 John 1:7) (Matthew 26:28). For the life of the flesh is in the blood (Leviticus 17:11), and without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin (Hebrews 9:22). In other words, a life for a life. A good example of this would be like when a father pushes his son out of the way of a fast moving car. The father takes the place for the son being hit by the car because he loves his son. The father did not want to see his son die, so he was willing to die in his son's place so that his son might live. This is what Jesus (the Son of God) did for us. Jesus died so that we would not die. Jesus died so that we could live eternally with Him. In fact, His resurrection makes it possible for us to one day be resurrected after His likeness. After men's bodies die: Men of God will live again one day in God's kingdom because of Christ's resurrection.

 

[Inkfingers]

I've read and thought about this question quite a lot and tbh I'm nowhere near understanding it. As I understand it, the Bible says that Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins. My understanding of sin is that it is a missing of the mark of our true humanness which is to be image bearers of God and this comes about because we worship idols rather than God. By that I mean we worship created things such as money, sex or power rather than the Creator and so come to reflect those things instead of God.

But how exactly (or even inexactly!) did Jesus' death achieve this? Why was it needed? Couldn't God have achieved this in another way, simply by declaring the forgiveness of sins for example? I'd appreciate anyone's thought on this because I do struggle with it

Perhaps this will help...

Jesus' death was what today we would call an 'Honour Killing'.

The sins of human kind are so great that it requires death as a penalty to cleans the dishonour, akin to seppuku in Japan, so Jesus died as the sacrificial honour killing for all of those whom he calls into his identity (ie: called to die to their old selves and find a new identity in him).

We need to stop looking at the crucifixion through modern eyes, with modern ideas of justice based upon rampant individualism, and instead see it through ancient eyes.

 

[zoidar]

I've read and thought about this question quite a lot and tbh I'm nowhere near understanding it. As I understand it, the Bible says that Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins. My understanding of sin is that it is a missing of the mark of our true humanness which is to be image bearers of God and this comes about because we worship idols rather than God. By that I mean we worship created things such as money, sex or power rather than the Creator and so come to reflect those things instead of God.

But how exactly (or even inexactly!) did Jesus' death achieve this? Why was it needed? Couldn't God have achieved this in another way, simply by declaring the forgiveness of sins for example? I'd appreciate anyone's thought on this because I do struggle with it

There is this theory that when man ate of the fruit, man became a sinner, selling his soul to Satan. God couldn't righteously forgive man since man belonged to Satan. The only way to get man back was to get the right to man back. It could only be done by someone (jesus) taking man's sin on himself. By taking the punishment of man, Satan no longer had any right to man since sin was what bound man to him. By Jesus death on the cross, God released man from the bound to Satan and God could righteously (by his own standards) forgive man.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I've read and thought about this question quite a lot and tbh I'm nowhere near understanding it. As I understand it, the Bible says that Jesus died on the cross to save us from our sins. My understanding of sin is that it is a missing of the mark of our true humanness which is to be image bearers of God and this comes about because we worship idols rather than God. By that I mean we worship created things such as money, sex or power rather than the Creator and so come to reflect those things instead of God.

But how exactly (or even inexactly!) did Jesus' death achieve this? Why was it needed? Couldn't God have achieved this in another way, simply by declaring the forgiveness of sins for example? I'd appreciate anyone's thought on this because I do struggle with it

Proverbs 17:15

"He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD."

For God to be truly JUST, sin cannot just be forgiven.

If you watched your children murdered and your wife raped then killed in front of your eyes, and the police caught the perpetrator and brought him before the judge, and the judge looked at the man and told him he was to be set free and there be no punishment for his sins against you... you would cry out what an unjust judge he was because for justice to be served punishment must be meted out.

So if you, a wicked man knows what constitutes justice, how much more a truly Holy God?

Justice has a requirement, and in Jesus, that requirement is served, for only one without sin can take on the penalty of another when the penalty for sin is death. Romans 6:23

Because Jesus was innocent, death could not hold Him... proof of our atonement. 1 Corinthians 15:14

 

[mkgal1]

I think the story is saying that there is something about the cross that is very evocative even when it's meaning is not fully understood. The more you think about it though, the more you realise what a good God we have.

Yes, and I think that's the answer of the question of "why the Cross?".

Romans 5:8 ~ But God demonstrates His love to us, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.​

 

[BryanJohnMaloney]

Perhaps this will help...

Jesus' death was what today we would call an 'Honour Killing'.

The sins of human kind are so great that it requires death as a penalty to cleans the dishonour, akin to seppuku in Japan, so Jesus died as the sacrificial honour killing for all of those whom he calls into his identity (ie: called to die to their old selves and find a new identity in him).

We need to stop looking at the crucifixion through modern eyes, with modern ideas of justice based upon rampant individualism, and instead see it through ancient eyes.

Wow, so God is a bloodthirsty SOB who is into honor killings? Golly...

 

[zoidar]

Yes, and I think that's the answer of the question of "why the Cross?".

Romans 5:8 ~ But God demonstrates His love to us, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.​

Man did the outmost evil, killing God's sinless Son. God did the outmost good sacrificing his own Son for man. The cross was the worst evil that ever happened and God used it for the highest good that ever happened.

 

[JacksBratt]

This is getting more complicated than need be.

If you park in a "no Parking Zone" and the fine is $15.00... but you have no money..... That's us today.

We sinned... Sin has a penalty... That penalty is death.. So.. no cross.... all men die as their punishment.

So, Christ... who has not sinned.... and has no debt to pay... pays your dept by dying for you..

Just as if someone came along and paid your $15.00 fine......