New or Renewed Covenant?

mkgal1 said:

Thoughts?

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The entire context of Hebrew 8 implies an old covenant and a new covenant.

mkgal1 said:

But there's also continuity based on all that was fulfilled from earlier convenants with Abraham and King David. And the use of "new" - as stated in the article - is only translated from the original root word neos one time (only the mediator of the covenant changed).

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Yeah.

Hebrews 8 still refers to two separate covenants.

mkgal1 said:

What was "new" was Christ appearing....and dying on the Cross....resurrecting...ascending to the throne of David. Basically fulfilling all the promises of God.

Jesus becoming the mediator of the covenant (replacing imperfect human mediators) is a renewal and fulfillment of previous promises of God.....going all the way back to Adam.

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Covenants. Plural. There are two of them. And they're separate from each other.

That's what Hebrews 8 still says even tho you posted that article.

mkgal1 said:

I came across this article this morning and thought it would be great for discussion. The main premise from the article is this:

Quoting linked article:
I noticed that in another answer you called the new covenant the renewed covenant. Can you please explain?

In Jeremiah 31:31 we see God renewing, restoring, or refreshing - not replacing - the covenant with his people. So why do we express the covenant in such terms?

The Term - "New"
Both the Hebrew chadash (Jer. 31:31) and the Greek kainos (Heb. 8:8) words for "new" may be more properly translated "renewed" as opposed to "new" or "brand-new" in certain contexts.

Chadash may mean new in quality, not new in time (1 Sam. 11:14; 2 Chron. 15:8; 24:4, 12; Job 10:7; Psa. 103:5; 104:30; Isa. 61:4; Lam. 5:21). It may also mean to "renew" or "repair". For instance, in Psalm 51:10 David says, "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me." David uses the same word as in Jeremiah 31:31 (chadash). David was not asking for something brand-new, but was asking for a renewal of what he had previously. In 2 Chronicles 24:4, 12 we see the use of the terms repair and restore (root, chadash) with the already existent house of the Lord. So, in all these verses, there is a renewal, a repairing, a restoring of that which was already in existence. The same is true for Jeremiah 31.

In the New Testament, of the eight times that "new" is applied to the New Covenant, seven of them use the term kainos - meaning "renewed," or "new in quality," not necessarily time (Matt. 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; 1 Cor. 11:25; 2 Cor. 3:6; Heb. 8:13; 9:15) as opposed to neos (meaning new in time - Heb. 12:24). The use of term kainos means there was a pre-existing covenant to which Jesus gave a qualitative difference.


As to the one verse that uses neos to describe the New Covenant (Heb. 12:24), it simply means Jesus was the "brand-new" (neos) Administrator of the re-newed (kainos) covenant (as opposed to Moses some two thousand years earlier). This is brand-new and makes the covenant re-newal possible.
The Re-Newed or New Covenant?
​

This would help explain Daniel's 70 week prophecy where it's stated "He will confirm a covenant with many for one week"(Daniel 9:27)

Thoughts?

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I find the context makes the best commentary in this case.

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

The new covenant is where the Holy Spirit indwells us, the origin of the law. Also important, teaching will no longer be needed because we all know God. This speaks specifically of being born again - not the previous covenant.

mkgal1 said:

I came across this article this morning and thought it would be great for discussion. The main premise from the article is this:

Quoting linked article:
I noticed that in another answer you called the new covenant the renewed covenant. Can you please explain?

In Jeremiah 31:31 we see God renewing, restoring, or refreshing - not replacing - the covenant with his people. So why do we express the covenant in such terms?

The Term - "New"
Both the Hebrew chadash (Jer. 31:31) and the Greek kainos (Heb. 8:8) words for "new" may be more properly translated "renewed" as opposed to "new" or "brand-new" in certain contexts.

Chadash may mean new in quality, not new in time (1 Sam. 11:14; 2 Chron. 15:8; 24:4, 12; Job 10:7; Psa. 103:5; 104:30; Isa. 61:4; Lam. 5:21). It may also mean to "renew" or "repair". For instance, in Psalm 51:10 David says, "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me." David uses the same word as in Jeremiah 31:31 (chadash). David was not asking for something brand-new, but was asking for a renewal of what he had previously. In 2 Chronicles 24:4, 12 we see the use of the terms repair and restore (root, chadash) with the already existent house of the Lord. So, in all these verses, there is a renewal, a repairing, a restoring of that which was already in existence. The same is true for Jeremiah 31.

In the New Testament, of the eight times that "new" is applied to the New Covenant, seven of them use the term kainos - meaning "renewed," or "new in quality," not necessarily time (Matt. 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; 1 Cor. 11:25; 2 Cor. 3:6; Heb. 8:13; 9:15) as opposed to neos (meaning new in time - Heb. 12:24). The use of term kainos means there was a pre-existing covenant to which Jesus gave a qualitative difference.


As to the one verse that uses neos to describe the New Covenant (Heb. 12:24), it simply means Jesus was the "brand-new" (neos) Administrator of the re-newed (kainos) covenant (as opposed to Moses some two thousand years earlier). This is brand-new and makes the covenant re-newal possible.
The Re-Newed or New Covenant?
​

This would help explain Daniel's 70 week prophecy where it's stated "He will confirm a covenant with many for one week"(Daniel 9:27)

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

The Jews (Judaism) argue that the new covenant in Jeremiah 31 is a "renewal" of the existing Mt. Sinai covenant.

However, the flaw to their argument is that the new covenant is unlike the one God had made with them in the desert.

Jeremiah 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

But because the interpretations the Jews have of being a renewal of the Mt. Sinai covenant, it will make it all the more convincing to the them that the Antichrist is their messiah, by him making the big speech to the nation of Israel - confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year period as required by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

mkgal1 said:

But there is a common thread. Not everything is new. The prophets were pointing to Christ....and God concealed Christ in the ancient Hebrew Scriptures:

Quoting other article:
The New Covenant promise of eternal life through faith in Jesus is greater than any other blessing of God ever given. Indeed this is the fulfillment of the blessing promised to Abraham. The curse of death and separation from God is overturned through Messiah. Paul clearly says "He redeemed us in order that THE BLESSING PROMISED TO ABRAHAM MIGHT COME TO THE GENTILES through Messiah Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit" (Galatians 3:14). Only through Jesus can people truly come to the blessings of Abraham, life in the Spirit. Not Replacement... Expansion! | Monergism​

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The common thread is illustrated in Colossians, the old covenant is the shadow, the body is Christ. So no need to do the shadow, it will follow the body - just be the body.

On the cross of Jesus, for both Jews and Gentiles 1, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was abolished, 2 disannulled, 3 rendered obsolete, 4 taken away and replaced, 5 by the better hope, 6 the better covenant, 7 the 2nd covenant, 8 of Jesus' New Covenant law, 9 so that the law was changed. 10

All believers, both Jews and Gentiles, of all times, are delivered from the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law and shouldn't keep it, 11 or have any desire to keep it. 12 Believers keep the spirit of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, 13 by loving others, 14 and by doing to others as they would have others do to them. 15

The New Covenant is a new law, 16 consisting of Jesus' New Testament commandments, 17 such as those he gave in the Sermon on the Mount, 18 and in the epistles of Paul the apostle. 19 These commandments exceed in righteousness the abolished letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law. 20 So there's no reason why any believer should ever want to go back under the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law. 21 It was just a temporary schoolmaster, 22 a temporary shadow, 23 which God set up because of sins long after he had set up the original promise of the Abrahamic Covenant, and long before he brought that promise to fulfilment in Jesus' New Covenant. 24

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been made obsolete by the New Covenant. 25 For example, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required an Aaronic priesthood, 26 whereas the New Covenant replaced the Aaronic priesthood with the Melchisedechian priesthood. 27 Also, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law required animal sacrifices, 28 whereas the New Covenant replaced those with the one-time sacrifice of Jesus. 29

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law is the Hagar to the New Covenant's Sarah, 30 so that those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who try to keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law are like Ishmael, while those people, whether Jews or Gentiles, who keep the New Covenant are like Isaac. 31

The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (including the letter of the 10 commandments), written and engraved in stones, 32 was the ministration of death and condemnation. 33 For example, 34 and contrast these with the New Covenant. 35 The letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law has been done away, 36 and abolished. 37 But it's still able to spiritually blind some people as with a veil from beholding Jesus, 38 whereas the New Covenant is the ministration of the spirit and righteousness, 39 which remains, 40 and which permits believers to remove the veil and to behold Jesus. 41

But a mistaken spirit of Pharisaism can still sometimes deceive even Christians into thinking that they must keep the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law in order to be saved, 42 or in order to become perfect. 43 This is a false, cursed gospel. 44 For if any believers are keeping any part of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law, thinking that they must do so in order to be saved, or in order to become perfect, then Jesus will profit them nothing; they have fallen from grace. 45


1/ John 11:51-52…Caiphas prophesied that Jesus would die for all the children of God.

2/ Ephesians 2:15-16 for He annulled the Law, creating a single new humanity in Himself.

2/ Colossians 2:14 He cancelled the Law with its legal demands, nailing it to the Cross.

3/ Hebrews 7:18 The earlier rules are repealed as ineffective and useless.

4/ Galatians 3:13 Christ bought us freedom from the curse of the Law, for all mankind.

4/ Hebrews 8:13 The New Covenant makes the Old obsolete.

5/ Hebrews 10:9 Jesus abolished the former to establish the latter.

6/ Hebrews 7:19 The Law brought nothing to perfection, now we have a better hope…

7/ Hebrews 7:22 God’s oath shows how superior is the Covenant that Jesus guarantees.

7/ Hebrews 8:10 In the latter days, I shall set My Laws in their hearts…

8/ Hebrews 8:7 The second Covenant is superior to, and replaces the first Covenant.

9/ John 1:17 The Law was given through Moses, but grace and truth come from Jesus.

9/ Matthew 26:28 This is My blood of the Covenant, shed for many to forgive sins.

10/ Hebrews 7:12 A change of the priesthood must mean a change of Law.

11/ Romans 7:6… we are released from the old Law, to serve God in the spirit.

11/ 2 Cor. 3:6 The written Law condemns to death, but Spirit gives life.

12/ Galatians 5:4 When you seek to be justified by Law, you are cut off from Grace.

12/ Galatians 3:4 No one is justified by the old Law, only by faith can anyone gain life.

13/ Romans 7:6 We serve God in a new way, the way of the spirit.

14/ Romans 13:7-10 The Commandments are summed up in one rule: Love your neighbour.

15/ Matthew 7:12 Treat others as you would have them treat you, that is all the Law.

16/ Hebrews 10:1 The old Law is but a shadow of a better one to come.

17/ John 14:15 If you love Me, you will obey My commands.

18/ Matthew 5:21-48…there must be no limit to your goodness…

19/ 1 Cor. 13:13 Three things last forever: Faith, hope and love, the greatest is love.

20/ Matthew 5:20 Unless you do better than the Pharisees, you will not enter the Kingdom.

21/ Galatians 3:2 Did you receive the spirit by the Law or by the Gospel message?

22/ Galatians 3:24 The Law was enforced until Christ, now we are justified through faith.

23/ Col. 2:17 It was but a shadow of greater things, the reality is Christ.

24/ Galatians 3:19 The Law was an interim measure, pending the arrival of the promised One.

24/ Isaiah 59:21… My Covenant which I will make with My people: My spirit will rest on them.

24/ Jeremiah 31:31-34 The days are coming; I shall set My Laws within My people’s hearts.

25/ Hebrews 8:13 He has pronounced the first one obsolete, it must be replaced.

26/ Exodus 30:30 Consecrate Aaron and his sons to be My priests.

27/ Hebrews 7:11-28 Perfection was not attained by the Aaronic priesthood, because death removes them. By God’s oath, Jesus is high priest forever.

28/ Leviticus 23:19 You are to prepare a he-goat and two sheep as an offering.

29/ Hebrews 10:5-7 Jesus came and offered His body as the final sacrifice.

30/ Galatians 4:23-31…the old Covenant is like Hagar; born onto slavery, now you my friends, are like Isaac, the children of God’s promise.

31/ Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ set us free, stand firm in your faith and refuse to submit again to the yoke of slavery.

32/ Deut. 27:8 Inscribe onto stones all the words of the Law…

33/ 2 Cor. 3:7 The Covenant that brought death, came in a glory that soon faded.

34/ Numbers 15:32-36 A man gathered sticks on the Sabbath, he was stoned to death.

35/ Matthew 12:6-8…Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath. It is mercy I require, not sacrifice.

36/ 2 Cor. 3:11 The old Law fades away, greater is the glory of what endures!

37/ 2 Cor. 3:14b… only in Christ is the old Covenant lifted.

38/ 2 Cor. 3:15 To this day, a veil lies over the mind of those who follow the old Law.

39/ 2 Cor. 3:9 If glory accompanied the ministry that brought death, how much greater must be the glory of the Covenant the brings acquittal!

40/ 2 Cor. 5:1 We know that when we die, we will possess eternal life.

41/ 2 Cor. 3:16-17 Whoever turns to the Spirit of the Lord, the veil is removed.

41/ Ephesians 2:18 For through Jesus, we have access to the Father in the one Spirit.

41/ Col. 3:17 Let your every word and action be to the glory of Jesus…

42/ Acts 15:5…these Gentiles must keep the Law of Moses.

43/ Galatians 3:3-9 Can you be so stupid? You now have the Gospel and its promised blessings, keep your faith, as Abraham did.

44/ Galatians 1:9 I warn you: do not preach any other Gospel, cursed be anything else.

45/ Galatians 5:2-4 If you get circumcised in the Law, Christ will benefit you no more. When you seek to be justified by way of the Law, you have put yourself outside God’s grace. Ref: REB, NIV. Some verses abridged.

I look at covenants as agreements between 2 parties.

1242 diathḗkē (from 1223 /diá, "thoroughly," intensifying 5087 /títhēmi, "place, set") – properly, a set-agreement having complete terms determined by the initiating party, which also are fully affirmed by the one entering the agreement.

The old covenant agreement found fault not because the agreement was faulty, but because the people were sinful and could not hold up their end of the bargain perfectly.

Hebrews 8:7-9 for if that first were faultless, a place would not have been sought for a second.For finding fault, He saith to them, ‘Lo, days come, saith the Lord, and I will complete with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah, a new covenant, not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers, in the day of My taking [them] by their hand, to bring them out of the land of Egypt — because they did not remain in My covenant, and I did not regard them, saith the Lord, —

Therefore because of man's inability to obey the law for righteousness due to death through Adam, God was going to bring about a new agreement.

However, I would argue that a new agreement by itself does not abolish God's righteous standards (moral laws and laws of sanctification/justification) that must be met in mankind for us to dwell with Him and live in His presence. Thus Christ, the only man to ever do so, fulfilled the all of the righteous standards, terms and conditions, perfectly. He brought the law and prophets to completion and became man's new representative unto life.

Christ's work to bring to completion the old covenant agreement with its terms and conditions makes it possible for us to come into a new agreement with God because His standards are now met in us through Christ.

Romans 8:3-4 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin,c he condemned sin in the flesh, in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

mkgal1 said:

I came across this article this morning and thought it would be great for discussion. The main premise from the article is this:

Quoting linked article:
I noticed that in another answer you called the new covenant the renewed covenant. Can you please explain?

In Jeremiah 31:31 we see God renewing, restoring, or refreshing - not replacing - the covenant with his people. So why do we express the covenant in such terms?

The Term - "New"
Both the Hebrew chadash (Jer. 31:31) and the Greek kainos (Heb. 8:8) words for "new" may be more properly translated "renewed" as opposed to "new" or "brand-new" in certain contexts.

Chadash may mean new in quality, not new in time (1 Sam. 11:14; 2 Chron. 15:8; 24:4, 12; Job 10:7; Psa. 103:5; 104:30; Isa. 61:4; Lam. 5:21). It may also mean to "renew" or "repair". For instance, in Psalm 51:10 David says, "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me." David uses the same word as in Jeremiah 31:31 (chadash). David was not asking for something brand-new, but was asking for a renewal of what he had previously. In 2 Chronicles 24:4, 12 we see the use of the terms repair and restore (root, chadash) with the already existent house of the Lord. So, in all these verses, there is a renewal, a repairing, a restoring of that which was already in existence. The same is true for Jeremiah 31.

In the New Testament, of the eight times that "new" is applied to the New Covenant, seven of them use the term kainos - meaning "renewed," or "new in quality," not necessarily time (Matt. 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; 1 Cor. 11:25; 2 Cor. 3:6; Heb. 8:13; 9:15) as opposed to neos (meaning new in time - Heb. 12:24). The use of term kainos means there was a pre-existing covenant to which Jesus gave a qualitative difference.


As to the one verse that uses neos to describe the New Covenant (Heb. 12:24), it simply means Jesus was the "brand-new" (neos) Administrator of the re-newed (kainos) covenant (as opposed to Moses some two thousand years earlier). This is brand-new and makes the covenant re-newal possible.
The Re-Newed or New Covenant?
​

This would help explain Daniel's 70 week prophecy where it's stated "He will confirm a covenant with many for one week"(Daniel 9:27)

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

The claim of a "renewed" covenant is often used by Judaisers who cannot let go of the Old Covenant.

The clear contrast between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Galatians 4:24-31, and Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 12:18-24, prove they are two completely different covenants.

Otherwise, why are we not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18, but are come instead to the New Covenant of Mount Sion in Hebrews 12:22-24?

.