God cannot grant faith

BryanW92 said:

I'm not saying that you can't die in a car crash. I'm saying that your faith that you will survive a drive is based on rational data points where many of the dangers are mitigated.

For example, licensing laws give you a reasonable assumption that the other drivers know the basics of the laws.

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Nice reply, I agree, its called natural/common faith, or faith that comes naturally. What I think you are pointing to (which I agree) is supernatural faith that comes by grace through faith. That is not a faith 'granted' to all, but only to those who hear the Gospel and through the Spirit are gifted with faith to save is created in them. That's why two people can hear the same Gospel, but only those having ears to hear through the power of God will receive the gift of faith for everlasting life. We are all natural man, having natural/common faith that all men have, until we are born again of the Spirit, receiving things of the Spirit of God. This supernatural faith is one of the fruits of the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Galatians 5:22 (KJV) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

My understanding of the traditional Calvinist position is that it's based on original sin. One consequence of the Fall is that our judgement became clouded. We are unable to have true faith, because pride and other faults prevent us from truly acknowledging our sin and repenting. (These problems do not necessarily apply to secular matters, so we're able to make correct judgements in many cases there.)

This leaves us in a truly helpless situation. To get us out, God regenerates us. That means that he changes our hearts in such a way that we are able to understand our situation and respond to the Gospel. Faith is a gift, but in Calvinist theology, the real gift is the ability to have faith.

I don't think this theology makes sense unless you accept the initial claim about our helplessness. The traditional term is "total depravity," though I think "total inability" is better, because total depravity tends to lead to misunderstanding.

hedrick said:

My understanding of the traditional Calvinist position is that it's based on original sin. One consequence of the Fall is that our judgement became clouded. We are unable to have true faith, because pride and other faults prevent us from truly acknowledging our sin and repenting. (These problems do not necessarily apply to secular matters, so we're able to make correct judgements in many cases there.)

This leaves us in a truly helpless situation. To get us out, God regenerates us. That means that he changes our hearts in such a way that we are able to understand our situation and respond to the Gospel. Faith is a gift, but in Calvinist theology, the real gift is the ability to have faith.

I don't think this theology makes sense unless you accept the initial claim about our helplessness. The traditional term is "total depravity," though I think "total inability" is better, because total depravity tends to lead to misunderstanding.

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My understanding of the Biblical position regarding man's fallen condition, the resulting effects of original sin that brought death upon every man, is not merely clouded judgment, but lacking any desire to turn to God for life. Man changed his destiny, and his king when he freely chose to heed the voice of the serpent, and disobey God. Therefore since man freely chose to heed the voice of the serpent, from the fall, the serpent is the only voice that mankind hears, until God by grace through faith opens man's ears to hear the Gospel through the power of the Spirit.

Salvation is the gift of eternal life that is given (not offered) to whosoever believes the Gospel by grace through faith.

Total depravity, total inability, it really makes little difference. Truth is apart from faith that comes by grace through the power of the Spirit, fallen mankind has no desire to turn to Christ for life. Because fallen man loves the darkness, and has no desire within himself to turn to the Light. Knowing the Light will reveal man's sinful deeds.

John 3:3 (KJV) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:5 (KJV) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

The GIFT of God is eternal life to whosoever believes the Gospel. The message about Christ; i.e. the Gospel, is OFFERED to all the world, and through the power of the Spirit, whosoever is ordained to eternal life will repent of his/her sin, turn to Christ believing. For salvation is the gift of God that comes by grace through faith that is not of ourselves, but of God alone.

Therefore it is well to say whosoever believes to the saving of his/her soul is ordained to eternal life.

rwb said:

My understanding of the Biblical position regarding man's fallen condition, the resulting effects of original sin that brought death upon every man, is not merely clouded judgment, but lacking any desire to turn to God for life.

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I didn’t mean just intellectual judgement, but also included this desire.

The rest of your posting seems consistent with Calvinism as I would understand it.

The point being that Calvinism doesn't say that God just puts people on some saved list without doing anything else. He also does the regeneration necessary to enable them to come to faith. That seems to be what you're saying.

hedrick said:

I didn’t mean just intellectual judgement, but also included this desire.

The rest of your posting seems consistent with Calvinism as I would understand it.

The point being that Calvinism doesn't say that God just puts people on some saved list without doing anything else. He also does the regeneration necessary to enable them to come to faith. That seems to be what you're saying.

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If you want to call Biblical truth Calvinism, that is your pejorative. God ordains His people to eternal life, otherwise no man would have eternal life. For salvation, beginning to end is of God alone, by grace alone, through faith alone, to the glory of God alone. All, eternal life, the gift of God that no man may boast.

Calvin never called it Calvinism. It was just the Gospel. But when lots of people disagree, it’s useful to have terms to refer to the differing theologies.

hedrick said:

Calvin never called it Calvinism. It was just the Gospel. But when lots of people disagree, it’s useful to have terms to refer to the differing theologies.

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You'll have to forgive me hedrick, I may be a little touchy about labels. I find more often than not when one assigns a label to one's doctrine, or theology it is because they cannot Biblically refute it. Assigning a label, I've discovered is simply a way of saying one follows the doctrine of a man, and not the Bible, therefore whatever is said can be dismissed as unbiblical. End of discussion, if you know what I mean?

Sure. I have an even worse label. I’m a theological liberal.

hedrick said:

Sure. I have an even worse label. I’m a theological liberal.

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Well, we are saved by Christ alone through faith, that means liberal, fundamentalist and those in between have hope that Christ's mercy extends to us all. I may give you are hard time for your liberalism hedrick but we are still children of the same God.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

This is simply the fallacy of equivocation of meaning. When Christians say, "God grants faith." we mean saving faith, not anything else. Saving faith can only come from God.