God cannot grant faith

[dogs4thewin]

He cannot. The reason is that EVERYONE has faith. I do not care if you have been a Christian for YEARS or a hardcore Atheist.

 

[Don Maurer]

He cannot. The reason is that EVERYONE has faith. I do not care if you have been a Christian for YEARS or a hardcore Atheist.

Not

 

[BryanW92]

He cannot. The reason is that EVERYONE has faith. I do not care if you have been a Christian for YEARS or a hardcore Atheist.

Not true. In 1986, I was on a submarine that was sinking (flooding in engine room, loss of propulsion, speed zero, 200 feet below test depth, 40 degree angle, and the first emergency blow had failed). I saw several people drop to their knees to pray and all I thought was, "Well, that's a waste of time."

When you get faith, it was God who gave it to you because there ARE atheists in foxholes (and sinking submarines).

In case you are wondering, the second emergency blow worked and we did make it to the surface.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Not true. In 1986, I was on a submarine that was sinking (flooding in engine room, loss of propulsion, speed zero, 200 feet below test depth, 40 degree angle, and the first emergency blow had failed). I saw several people drop to their knees to pray and all I thought was, "Well, that's a waste of time."

When you get faith, it was God who gave it to you because there ARE atheists in foxholes (and sinking submarines).

In case you are wondering, the second emergency blow worked and we did make it to the surface.

Yes there are Atheists in foxholes, BUT faith is believing in something you cannot prove. If I get in a car, I have faith that I will make it home. Even though, I know that I may have a wreck, BUT when I get in a car I do not think ( unless I have a death wish) hm I am going to have a wreck today.

 

[Don Maurer]

Yes there are Atheists in foxholes, BUT faith is believing in something you cannot prove. If I get in a car, I have faith that I will make it home. Even though, I know that I may have a wreck, BUT when I get in a car I do not think ( unless I have a death wish) hm I am going to have a wreck today.

That is called a category error. When we refer to faith, we generally are speaking of justification by faith alone.

 

[BryanW92]

Yes there are Atheists in foxholes, BUT faith is believing in something you cannot prove. If I get in a car, I have faith that I will make it home. Even though, I know that I may have a wreck, BUT when I get in a car I do not think ( unless I have a death wish) hm I am going to have a wreck today.

That really has nothing to do with the faith that is given through grace. You believe that you will survive your car trip because of your skills, the car's abilities, and the law that is known and obeyed by other drivers.

 

[dogs4thewin]

That really has nothing to do with the faith that is given through grace. You believe that you will survive your car trip because of your skills, the car's abilities, and the law that is known and obeyed by other drivers.

but there is no way to PROVE that. Number one there are VARIOUS things that can cause accidents and number two just because a person KNOWS the law does not mean they will follow it. The mere fact we have to have laws is proof enough of that. You have faith that others will obey the law and FAITH in YOUR skills.

Suppose, for example, that it is fall and a big buck ( live in a rural area here) jumps out in front of a small car well no matter how much skill you have you may not be able to stop, and even in larger cars/vans if you hit a deer like THAT just right you could die

 

[BryanW92]

but there is no way to PROVE that. Number one there are VARIOUS things that can cause accidents and number two just because a person KNOWS the law does not mean they will follow it. The mere fact we have to have laws is proof enough of that. You have faith that others will obey the law and FAITH in YOUR skills.

Suppose, for example, that it is fall and a big buck ( live in a rural area here) jumps out in front of a small car well no matter how much skill you have you may not be able to stop, and even in larger cars/vans if you hit a deer like THAT just right you could die

I'm not saying that you can't die in a car crash. I'm saying that your faith that you will survive a drive is based on rational data points where many of the dangers are mitigated.

For example, licensing laws give you a reasonable assumption that the other drivers know the basics of the laws.

 

[BryanW92]

But, in your OP, you said that EVERYONE has faith. I proved that your statement is wrong by my own experience. I can't be the only person in the world who had ZERO faith in God prior to him giving it to me.

 

[Inkfingers]

He cannot. The reason is that EVERYONE has faith. I do not care if you have been a Christian for YEARS or a hardcore Atheist.

God grants faith (ie: belief in, and fidelity to, Himself). The fact that you may have faith in the stock market not crashing is nothing to do with that.

He grants faith.
That granting is an act of grace.
That act of grace saves us, though (the) faith (He gives us in it).

 

[dogs4thewin]

I'm not saying that you can't die in a car crash. I'm saying that your faith that you will survive a drive is based on rational data points where many of the dangers are mitigated.

For example, licensing laws give you a reasonable assumption that the other drivers know the basics of the laws.

Faith the way it is defined as something you cannot PROVE. I did NOT say that everyone has faith in Christ.

 

[BryanW92]

Faith the way it is defined as something you cannot PROVE. I did NOT say that everyone has faith in Christ.

Neither did I. When I was on that sinking submarine, I did not cry out to any god, whether it be the God, allah, or Poseidon. My only faith was in the steel hull of the boat and the abilities of the men inside it which was not faith all because it was based on rational knowledge, and we had exhausted our possibilities and the steel was about to fail. There was no faith in me.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Neither did I. When I was on that sinking submarine, I did not cry out to any god, whether it be the God, allah, or Poseidon. My only faith was in the steel hull of the boat and the abilities of the men inside it which was not faith all because it was based on rational knowledge, and we had exhausted our possibilities and the steel was about to fail. There was no faith in me.

How so? Is faith not believing in something that you cannot prove? Even if someone has skills ECTs

 

[BryanW92]

How so? Is faith not believing in something that you cannot prove? Even if someone has skills ECTs

No one can prove anything 100%. But just because you can't prove it 100% does not make belief that it is real a leap of faith. That submarine hull had survived thousands of trips to test depth without problems, but it was not designed to withstand infinite pressure, so it would fail at some point between test depth and the ocean floor. The skill of the men had been tested over and over again. Sure, they could make a mistake, but nothing is 100%, and you can still make a rational fact-based decision without calling it faith.

In the end, we were saved by a quick thinker who did an emergency blow out of the normal sequence. Knowledge--experience--innovation--technology--metallurgy--physics. No faith required.

 

[dogs4thewin]

No one can prove anything 100%. But just because you can't prove it 100% does not make belief that it is real a leap of faith. That submarine hull had survived thousands of trips to test depth without problems, but it was not designed to withstand infinite pressure, so it would fail at some point between test depth and the ocean floor. The skill of the men had been tested over and over again. Sure, they could make a mistake, but nothing is 100%, and you can still make a rational fact-based decision without calling it faith.

In the end, we were saved by a quick thinker who did an emergency blow out of the normal sequence. Knowledge--experience--innovation--technology--metallurgy--physics. No faith required.

so what do you call it if I do business with someone. Well, unless I REFUSE to do business with ANYONE I do not know. I have no way of knowing someone is honest. It is only AFTER I have done business with someone that I know whether they are likely to pay or not.

 

[BryanW92]

so what do you call it if I do business with someone. Well, unless I REFUSE to do business with ANYONE I do not know. I have no way of knowing someone is honest. It is only AFTER I have done business with someone that I know whether they are likely to pay or not.

You have the default code of morality and the law backing you up. your reasonable expectation of compensation is backed up by those two things. No faith in the unseen involved.

 

[dogs4thewin]

You have the default code of morality and the law backing you up. your reasonable expectation of compensation is backed up by those two things. No faith in the unseen involved.

In that case, why is it that if I were to go to civil court ( or even criminal court) depending on the offense and whether it is general or spefitic intend good what is considered a defense. It is not acting in good law but acting in good what.

 

[BryanW92]

In that case, why is it that if I were to go to civil court ( or even criminal court) depending on the offense and whether it is general or spefitic intend good what is considered a defense. It is not acting in good law but acting in good what.

Seriously? You're going to play word games? The faith in the legal phrase "acting in good faith" is not the same faith that is "faith in Jesus Christ".

"Good faith is an abstract and comprehensive term that encompasses a sincere belief or motive without any malice or the desire to defraud others."

"Romans 3:22–23 says that 'righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.' When we place our faith in Jesus, we believe in Him, and God grants His righteousness to us."

So, when YOU act in good faith, you are saying that people should trust you. When you HAVE faith, then you are trusting another. Same word, but when used in those two contexts, one is incoming trust and one is outgoing trust.

 

[dogs4thewin]

Still though faith is trust incoming outgoing.

 

[Don Maurer]

Faith the way it is defined as something you cannot PROVE. I did NOT say that everyone has faith in Christ.

No, but you did day God cannot grant faith. This is unscriptural.

Phil 1:29 because to you it hath been granted in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer in his behalf:

I could offer other texts, but this one is strait forward.