20 major reasons to reject the Premillennial doctrine

DavidPT said:

The point I'm trying to make, if all of the events recorded after the 6th seal, are all meaning chronologically after the events in the 6th seal, which would include Revelation 13, how does that equal the Lord alone shall be exalted in that day if the 42 month reign of the beast still follows, rather than precedes, the 6th seal events?

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The Lord will be exalted on that Day; people will say: This is God's wrath!
But as it will be a natural event, a sunspot explosion, which quickly passes, then the survivors, all the ungodly peoples will dismiss it as just another natural disaster.

The rise of the Anti-Christ leader of the One World Govt, will happen several years later, during the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns; then those people will be forced to worship him, on pain of death.
We Christians will either be taken to a place of safety or will remain in the holy Land. Revelation 12:6-17

keras said:

The Lord will be exalted on that Day; people will say: This is God's wrath!
But as it will be a natural event, a sunspot explosion, which quickly passes, then the survivors, all the ungodly peoples will dismiss it as just another natural disaster.

The rise of the Anti-Christ leader of the One World Govt, will happen several years later, during the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns; then those people will be forced to worship him, on pain of death.
We Christians will either be taken to a place of safety or will remain in the holy Land. Revelation 12:6-17

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I just don't see it making sense that the Lord alone is exalted in that day, followed by the AC then being exalted in that day, meaning the 42 month reign. The chronology seems backwards.

sovereigngrace said:

Men are either saved in this day of salvation or destroyed when Jesus comes. Pretty simple! Is that not what happened in both Noah and Lot's days?

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Those in Noah's day were reprobate sons of God. They knew who God was without any excuses.

In Lot's day, his uncle Abraham had a little talk with God about sparing the city. Abraham kept changing his faith level.

The church has the keys, every single individual has the power of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 16:19
19 And I will give unto thee (the church) the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Is turning the world to Christ against God's Will? That was the point of the great commission, right? Not only telling others, but making disciples to go out and tell others. What are the keys for if not in carrying out the great commission?

If we reject God like Solomon did in all his wisdom, what can I do about that?

sovereigngrace said:

Please explain!

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Daniel 6:7-9
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Daniel was not even told what would happen in this prophecy. When would it apply? What is a time? What is mutiple times? What is half a time?

Daniel lived around 500 BC. Christ was the next time. 500 years fits half a time. It has been 2000 years since Christ. That would be the times. There is still a time left before the end. A time left, and times, and an half have passed. A time, times, and a half has been fulfilled. Not 3 times. Not at just 1 time. Not just half a time 500 years. It has been 2500 years. Satan himself started 2500 years ago as well. Working to set up the first temple desecration. There is still one time to go before God is finished with His current creation. Amil cannot claim just any time. If they claim the first century that was only an half time. If they claim the church, that was times, too long. The only time they can amil, is the last time.

DavidPT said:

I just don't see it making sense that the Lord alone is exalted in that day, followed by the AC then being exalted in that day, meaning the 42 month reign. The chronology seems backwards.

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There will be several years between the Sixth Seal and the 42 month reign of the AC. Proved by how the One World Govt is formed after the SS, with 10 Governors.
Then it will be awhile before the AC takes the OWG over.

keras said:

There will be several years between the Sixth Seal and the 42 month reign of the AC. Proved by how the One World Govt is formed after the SS, with 10 Governors.
Then it will be awhile before the AC takes the OWG over.

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Except none of that happens during the 6th seal events as far as I can tell. All those events would be in the past by the time the 6th seal events start getting fulfilled.

DavidPT said:

Except none of that happens during the 6th seal events as far as I can tell. All those events would be in the past by the time the 6th seal events start getting fulfilled.

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The Sixth Seal is the next prophesied event that will take place.
This is proved by how Jesus omitted Isaiah 61:2b; in Luke 4:18-19
...and a Day of vengeance of our God.
The Lords Day of vengeance and wrath. Revelation 6:12-17 and graphically described in over 100 other prophesies.

sovereigngrace said:

Despite what you try to portray, there is absolutely no different between the wicked in our day and those in Sodom and Noah's day. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

• How many people survived in Sodom (the sole city that Christ likened the destruction of this world to at the end)?
• How many wicked people survived in Noah's day?

This is all theological gerrymandering to justify the error of Premil. It has no basis in fact or reality.

For the record: Daniel lived about 605 B.C.

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Daniel thinks your critique of his writings as theological gerrymandering is funny. Daniel also says he was a real person and actually lived on the earth. He also says, he has had 2500 years to think it over, and it makes sense now.

sovereigngrace said:

So,

• How many people survived in Sodom (the sole city that Christ likened the destruction of this world to at the end)?
• How many wicked people survived in Noah's day?

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• How many people will survive the forthcoming Day of the Lords fiery wrath?

Isaiah 24:5-6 The earth is desecrated by its inhabitants, for they have broken the Laws and disobeyed My Commandments.
That is why a curse will consume the earth...the population will diminish and only a few will remain.
Isaiah 66:15-17 See; the Lord is coming in fire....in the flaming fire of His punishment. His Sword will test all mankind and many will be slain by Him......
2 Peter 3:7, Hebrews 10:27, Romans 1:18

keras said:

The Sixth Seal is the next prophesied event that will take place.
This is proved by how Jesus omitted Isaiah 61:2b; in Luke 4:18-19
...and a Day of vengeance of our God.
The Lords Day of vengeance and wrath. Revelation 6:12-17 and graphically described in over 100 other prophesies.

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There's a problem with your timing of having the entire book of revelation be from start to finish in chronological order and that is the repeat of the 144k in chapters 7 and in chapter 14.
The fact that Chapter 12 starts out with the birth of Christ should clue you that this is actually a reset. I don't see a reset in chapter 7 like the Amills, I see 1 complete course of events of the end times from chapters 6-11, but chapter 12 resets and chapter 13 parallels chapter 6 and 14 parallels chapter 7 and while the vials and trumpets aren't the same judgement, they seem to be in parallel and are related. The trumpets for the earth, the vials for those who took the mark of the beast.
If the entire book is in chronological order, explain the sense of finality in chapter 11 and the birth of Christ in chapter 12, explain 2 groups of 144k.

sovereigngrace said:

Who remains and on what grounds?

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Ask God, He knows.
Isaiah 66:17, Ezekiel 21:1-8, Romans 1:18 and many others.

Jamdoc said:

There's a problem with your timing of having the entire book of revelation be from start to finish in chronological order and that is the repeat of the 144k in chapters 7 and in chapter 14.

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I have never said that the entire book of Revelation is in consecutive chronological order. The 144k is mentioned twice, giving more details; like how it will be Jesus who selects them as He stands on Mt Zion, in Jerusalem.
What is the inviolate order; is the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls, then Jesus Returns, the Millennium, then Eternity.

Jamdoc said:

The fact that Chapter 12 starts out with the birth of Christ should clue you that this is actually a reset.

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Revelation 12:1-5 reiterates the story of Jesus birth and death. It confirms the rest of that chapter is about Christian people and their struggle with Satan.

Jamdoc said:

If the entire book is in chronological order, explain the sense of finality in chapter 11 and the birth of Christ in chapter 12, explain 2 groups of 144k.

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Revelation 11:15-19 is how Jesus receives the mandate to reign over the earth.
He doesn't Return with the rewards for His servants, or destroy those who attack Him, until after the 7th Bowl; at Armageddon.

keras said:

Ask God, He knows.
Isaiah 66:17, Ezekiel 21:1-8, Romans 1:18 and many others.

I have never said that the entire book of Revelation is in consecutive chronological order. The 144k is mentioned twice, giving more details; like how it will be Jesus who selects them as He stands on Mt Zion, in Jerusalem.
What is the inviolate order; is the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and the 7 Bowls, then Jesus Returns, the Millennium, then Eternity.

Revelation 12:1-5 reiterates the story of Jesus birth and death. It confirms the rest of that chapter is about Christian people and their struggle with Satan.

Revelation 11:15-19 is how Jesus receives the mandate to reign over the earth.
He doesn't Return with the rewards for His servants, or destroy those who attack Him, until after the 7th Bowl; at Armageddon.

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Pastor Voddie Baucham on the Resurrections in Revelation chapter 20:


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BABerean2 said:

Pastor Voddie Baucham on the Resurrections in Revelation chapter 20:

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I did actually listen to a part of this Video.
I totally reject his assertion that the Throne of God is only in heaven. It is wherever God wants it to be.
The vast multitude that John sees, Rev 7:9, are in Jerusalem; on earth. It is pure speculation to say they are in heaven.

keras said:

I totally reject his assertion that the Throne of God is only in heaven. It is wherever God wants it to be.

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Please show us the scriptures that clearly reveal otherwise...


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sovereigngrace said:

Well, you are wrong.

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Brilliant reply! It demonstrates an intransigent and unteachable attitude.

BABerean2 said:

Please show us the scriptures that clearly reveal otherwise....

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Gods Throne was seen by living people on earth. Ezekiel 1:1 and Acts 7:56
We Christians will see it again, as we praise God - in Jerusalem. Revelation 7:9-10

keras said:

Brilliant reply! It demonstrates an intransigent and unteachable attitude.

Gods Throne was seen by living people on earth. Ezekiel 1:1 and Acts 7:56
We Christians will see it again, as we praise God - in Jerusalem. Revelation 7:9-10

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Which Jerusalem?

Will it be the city of "bondage" or the city which is "above"?

Gal 4:25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—
Gal 4:26 but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.



Will it be the city which is spiritually like "Sodom and Egypt", or will it be the heavenly city?

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Rev 3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.


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