Did You Really Not Know That Christ Must Be Obeyed? --Yes, You!

GenemZ

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Stranger things have happened on this planet. Besides, despite the imperfection of my parable, I should not have to point out to you that the punishment of disobeying certain laws generally speaking are effective deterrents. That is kind of a given, but if one does not want to see such a truth because it does not align with their beliefs, then by all means.... it is your free will choice to not see such a truth.
I still do not know what you point is in this. Are you wanting to join the "Sin Police?"

God is more than capable of dealing with each one of us if we get out of line. You keep sounding like you want to give God a helping hand.

Jesus warned.. "Judge not lest you be judged. For how you judge another, so shall you be judged."

Why does God judge us as we judge others?

Because He will judge us as we have judged another, just to show us that He is more than capable to punish someone as we saw fit.. Its to show us that He does not need our help.

Just work out your own salvation in fear and trembling and learn to mind your own business.

Its not... Work out that guys salvation by making him fear and tremble. Work out your own.
 
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GenemZ

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Okay. Let's look at Scripture:

“...by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.” (Proverbs 16:6).

True! And, you were not there to make sure they did depart.

God does not need our help in doing His job. As long as men are taught the Word with accuracy the Holy Spirit will take it from there.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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Two things insured that David was Saved ......The Grace Of God and the Faith Of David....
Two things insured the SEVERE Chastisement Of David....David was a Child Of God.....Gid chastises His Children
It’s when you DON’T receive God's Correction that you got something to worry about.....
 
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GenemZ

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Two things insured that David was Saved ......The Grace Of God and the Faith Of David....
Two things insured the SEVERE Chastisement Of David....David was a Child Of God.....Gid chastises His Children
It’s when you DON’T receive God's Correction that you got something to worry about.....

Ned_Flanders.png
...That sounds about right!
 
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I still do not know what you point is in this. Are you wanting to join the "Sin Police?"

God is more than capable of dealing with each one of us if we get out of line. You keep sounding like you want to give God a helping hand.

Jesus warned.. "Judge not lest you be judged. For how you judge another, so shall you be judged."

Why does God judge us as we judge others?

Because He will judge us as we have judged another, just to show us that He is more than capable to punish someone as we saw fit.. Its to show us that He does not need our help.

Just work out your own salvation in fear and trembling and learn to mind your own business.

Its not... Work out that guys salvation by making him fear and tremble. Work out your own.

Then you need to tear out pages of your Bible because it warns against how sin can destroy our souls. Even Jesus warned us against how looking at a woman in lust can lead to our entire body being cast into hellfire (Matthew 5:28-30). We are told to preach the Word (2 Timothy 4:2). This naturally will include verses or passages that warns believers to repent and forsake sin (not only by Jesus, but by his followers).

“Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.” (Proverbs 27:6).
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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Christians are free to do whatever they want.....for example , I drank as much tonight as I wanted to....not a drop.....I also watched as much inappropriate content as I wanted to this evening......it was a grand total of none.
Yes, I do whatever I want to do every second of every day. Now that I have learned how to REST in The Gospel , Knowing I can never go to Hell for any reason— the second that Truth hit home with me was Also the very second that I did want to sin anymore.A new attitude driven by gratitude and Love.Christians can do what they want—- God changes their “ wants” ......sometimes it takes a while, but it will happen.....Grace covers missteps along the way......Chastisement can sometimes be expected .....Christians can and do sin , but relax Legalists — they do NOT get away with it.....they pay here on earth....Salvation is never in question.....that was a Gift, remember?
 
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True! And, you were not there to make sure they did depart. God does not need our help in doing His job.

So what on Earth do you think John the Baptist did?
He told men to repent.
Jesus also told men to repent or they would perish.
We are told in Scripture to follow our Lord's example.
So the Bible does not agree with you.

You said:
As long as men are taught the Word with accuracy the Holy Spirit will take it from there.

The Holy Spirit is given to those who obey.

“And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.” (Acts of the Apostles 5:32).
 
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Christians are free to do whatever they want.....for example , I drank as much tonight as I wanted to....not a drop.....I also watched as much inappropriate content as I wanted to this evening......it was a grand total of none.
Yes, I do whatever I want to do every second of every day. Now that I have learned how to REST in The Gospel , Knowing I can never go to Hell for any reason— the second that Truth hit home with me was Also the very second that I did want to sin anymore.A new attitude driven by gratitude and Love.Christians can do what they want—- God changes their “ wants” ......sometimes it takes a while, but it will happen.....Grace covers missteps along the way......Chastisement can sometimes be expected .....Christians can and do sin , but relax Legalists — they do NOT get away with it.....they pay here on earth....Salvation is never in question.....that was a Gift, remember?

Jesus was a legalist. He kept the law perfectly in order to be our spotless lamb. Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15). Also, while you may not turn God's grace into a license to sin, if you believe that you don't lose salvation when you sin, others who hear your belief most definitely can turn God's grace into a license to sin. Why do I say this? Because it has already happened with those who already preach Eternal Security before. For it happened with George Sodini. He murdered a bunch of people and then he killed himself. He wrote in his suicide letter that Jesus paid for his future sins. No different than David, huh? There are others who killed themselves because of a belief in Eternal Security. One believer called into a Christian radio and said that they would not kill themselves if they knew they would go to hell because of suicide. So surely if all your sin is paid for, then that is exactly what some will do and have already done. They will take their own life and disobey God's command and think they will not die. It's like back in the Garden with the serpent and Eve. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:” (Genesis 3:4). History repeats itself. The devil is still up to his ole bag of tricks and people are buying into it, hook line, and sinker.
 
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Religiot

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.....and what is the “ will of God?.........God’s will is for us to “Believe in the One that He sent”
Yes, of course.

And remember that belief presupposes obedience, John 3:36.

Belief without obedience is dead, and dead belief is one of the many ways that comprise the wide path to death.

--So be sure to make the distinction, cause Satan is really busy, deceiving would-be-true-believers into thinking that belief without obedience is not dead.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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“ NOBODY comes to Jesus lest the Holy Spirit Of God draw them”
The Holy Spirit “ draws men” by showing them that they are wretched men headed for a deserved Hell like a speeding bullet and they are hopeless and helpless to do anything about other than Turn to God ( The one and ONLY type of Repentance that saves) and ask for His Grace and Forgiveness.
Want to see what it looks like in real life? See the example Jesus have of the Repentant Tax Collector— he had his eyes opened by the Holy Spirit to the Truth Of His Lost position......all that was left for him to do was to cry out...” Lord, have Mercy on me , a Sinner”.....That will get the job done”
The Jerk in your story does not sound like one that has had any encounter with the Holy Spirit......God Bless...
 
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Phil W

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I don't mean repentance, as in turning from practicing sin to obedience to God, I mean repentance from my present unrighteous anger to peace and calmness in Christ.
What is the difference between "sin" and "unrighteous anger"?

My salvation doesn't hinge on whether or not I've remembered to repent, it hinges solely on my faith towards God.
If one doesn't turn from sin, how can they say they have faith in the God that made it possible to turn from sin?
 
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Religiot

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Well, I disagree, brother. Jesus said repent or perish (Luke 13:3). I believe “repentance” is to seek forgiveness with the Lord, and that the fruits of repentance is living holy (doing good works and forsaking sin).

If you are interested, here is my Biblical case for repentance:
A Biblical Case For Repentance:

At the heart, I believe the Bible teaches that repentance means, "Asking God for forgiveness" (Which of course naturally then leads to the "fruits of repentance", i.e. obedience to the Lord):

Important Note: While I may believe "Repentance" does involve to a certain degree a "change of mind" (like a person changing their mind about their old life of sin), I do not think "Repentance" exclusively means a “change of mind.”

Anyways, here are my ten points using Scripture showing that "repentance" means "asking God for forgiveness of sin."

#1. Acts 2:38,
The New Living Translation says in Acts 2:38 to "repent of your sins."
Douay Reheims says in Acts 2:38 to "Do penance."
New Life Version says in Acts 2:38 to "Be sorry for your sins"

#2. Luke 17:3 says, "Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him." This doesn't make any sense if "repent" means believe in Jesus (as some teach) or to have a change of mind about sin (as others teach) or to exclusively forsake sin. Yes, we are to forsake sin as a part of repentance but that comes later after repentance (Which is to ask God for forgiveness of our sin). For how can we reconcile with a brother if we do not say we are sorry vs. just going on about life as if we did nothing wrong?

#3. Jesus said in Matthew 12:41 that the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to turn to Jonah chapter 3, you would be able to see in Jonah 3:6-10 that the King of the Ninevites had told his people to:

(a) Cry out to God (i.e. Repentance) (See Jonah 3:8).
(b) Turn from their sins or evil ways (i.e. The Natural Fruits of Repentance).

#4. Matthew 3:6 (which then lines up with Matthew 3:8). Also, in Mark 1:4-5, it says John preached the "baptism of repentance" for the remission of sins (verse 4), and it then defines this "baptism of repentance" by saying they confessed their sins when they were baptized (verse 5).

#5. We see in Acts of the Apostles 8:22 a clear example of Peter telling Simon to "repent" of his wickedness in trying to pay for the Holy Spirit. Peter is telling Simon to make a prayer towards God. For Peter says that he should pray that God might forgive him. In other words, Peter is telling Simon to repent of a one time event of wickedness by way of prayer to GOD. This only makes sense if "repent" means to "ask for forgiveness."

#6. Ezekiel 14:6 says,
"Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols;" Repent makes the most sense here if a person is asking God for forgiveness by way of prayer instead of a person just believing in God. Naturally a person believes in God as their Savior if they are planning on forsaking their idols.

#7. We see repentance is the topic of discussion in Luke 15 (Luke 15:6) (Luke 15:10); This is then followed up by the "Parable of the Prodigal Son" with the son desiring to be reconciled with his father. We learn the WAY the Prodigal Son desired to be reconciled with his father when he said,

"I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants." (Luke 15:18-19).

In other words, the Prodigal Son was seeking forgiveness. This ties into the point of repentance in Luke 15:6 and Luke 15:10.

#8. Luke 10:13 says,
"Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works had been done in Tyre and Sidon, which have been done in you, they had a great while ago repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes." This rules out the theory that repentance is exclusively forsaking sin. Granted, forsaking sin always follow true repentance (Asking God for forgiveness of one's sins) but forsaking sin is not repentance. The word "repented" here is describing a one time event because they "repented", sitting in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:6 we learn that the King of Nineveh sat in sackcloth and ashes. In Jonah 3:8, the King of Nineveh tells people to put on sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God (i.e. repentance): and then turn from their evil way (i.e. the fruits of repentance).

#9. John the Baptist says we are to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8). Fruits are deeds (or obedience to God). How can repentance be the same thing as the fruit? Is the fruit the same thing as the tree?

#10. Jeremiah 8:6 says, "I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse rusheth into the battle." Here we see the word "repented of wickedness" tied with the words, "What have I done?" This is an acknowledgement of one's sin to God as a part of asking His forgiveness.

Notable Additional Verses that Deal with Repentance
(But They Do Not Use The Word "Repent" or "Repentance"):

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).

13 "And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. (Luke 18:13-14).

Proverbs 28:13 says whosoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

We also need to live holy after we are saved by God's grace, as well.
For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.
This means we cannot justify sin, but we must battle against sin.
We need to be fruitful, and not abide in those sins that the Bible condemns.
If we mess up on occasion, we need to confess of sin in order to be forgiven of sin.
Brother, I can see how that post of mine can be misunderstood: I do not, at all, deny repentance.

I believe repentance is required, period.

What I meant by what I said, was simply that I repented from my sin, at that moment, that is, I turned from my unrighteous anger, back to the peace of Christ. --I did this by confessing to God that I had sinned, and asking for His forgiveness, and I did it on the spot, and that is how I returned to peace.

To repent is to turn, and how we turn to God is by contrition, which can only result by the realization that we have sinned, which can only come from believing the Lord.

--My response was also a comparison of repentance from a life committed to sin, to a life committed to Christ, which only happened once--when I first believed--to the daily repentance of sin, which happens all the time, because I do believe.

That first repentance from death to Christ, is how I'm saved, and not by daily repentance of non-mortal sins.

--How the Lord taught us to make our daily prayers includes asking for forgiveness, therefore, the Lord presupposes that we will sin, and daily; so I'm sure that many of my sins are beyond my awareness, which is another reason why we must distinguish, as the bible does, between mortal and non-mortal sins.

I hope that clarifies my position on repentance.
 
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bbbbbbb

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My alarm clock would go off.

Because to have your example be seen as happening? I would have had to be dreaming.

Actually, Montana does not have any posted speed limits on its highways, primarily because they have so many of them and so few state troopers to enforce speed limits. Outsiders who travel through Montana are amazed and enjoy driving at high speeds. However, the overall accident rate compared with other states compares favorably. That is one of the advantages of having a seriously underpopulated state.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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Belief without obedience is dead, and dead belief is one of the many ways that comprise the wide path to death.


This side of the Cross, The Obedience That counts is the Obedience to the Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing.We Obey That Gospel ( 1Cor15:1-4) by Resting In It as God Commands in Heb 3. Rest Spurs love.....Love Spurs Obedience..
 
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GenemZ

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This side of the Cross, The Obedience That counts is the Obedience to the Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing.We Obey That Gospel ( 1Cor15:1-4) by Resting In It as God Commands in Heb 3. Rest Spurs love.....Love Spurs Obedience..

Not if you are driven to get everyone goose stepping to what ever you think obedience is.

God 'draws you."
Satan "drives you."

God draws us into obedience through love growing as we grow.

Satan drives you through turning what should be grace into law.

Both use the Scriptures.. One is life. The other is an obsession.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Brother, I can see how that post of mine can be misunderstood: I do not, at all, deny repentance.

I believe repentance is required, period.

What I meant by what I said, was simply that I repented from my sin, at that moment, that is, I turned from my unrighteous anger, back to the peace of Christ. --I did this by confessing to God that I had sinned, and asking for His forgiveness, and I did it on the spot, and that is how I returned to peace.

To repent is to turn, and how we turn to God is by contrition, which can only result by the realization that we have sinned, which can only come from believing the Lord.

--My response was also a comparison of repentance from a life committed to sin, to a life committed to Christ, which only happened once--when I first believed--to the daily repentance of sin, which happens all the time, because I do believe.

That first repentance from death to Christ, is how I'm saved, and not by daily repentance of non-mortal sins.

--How the Lord taught us to make our daily prayers includes asking for forgiveness, therefore, the Lord presupposes that we will sin, and daily; so I'm sure that many of my sins are beyond my awareness, which is another reason why we must distinguish, as the bible does, between mortal and non-mortal sins.

I hope that clarifies my position on repentance.

The Greek word for repentance is μετάνοια (metanoia). Meta means to change and noia means mind. Repentance means to change one's mind. One can change one's mind about any one of a huge variety of things. I can change my mind about what I want to order in a restaurant.

Scripture, specifically the NT, uses μετάνοια frequently and virtually always in relation to the gospel and the person and work of Jesus Christ. John the Baptist in John 1 clearly pointed to the person and work of Jesus Christ in his preaching. You will look long and hard to find any commandment in the New Testament to repent from sin.

Repentance from sin is foreign to scripture, although exceedingly popular in much Christian "gospel" preaching.
 
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Broken Fence

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The devils believe too, and they tremble.
But supposed believers can disobey God without a twitch?
How come those "believers" don't believe..."And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free". ..."Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin." (John 8:32-34)
Or..."For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:" (Rom 6:7-8)
Or..."And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him." (1 John 3:5-6)
Or about twenty other scriptures?


Is sinning against God or our brothers "truth"?


Why is rebirth necessary for salvation?
And if the "old man" has been crucified with Christ, (Rom 6:3-6, Gal 5:24), how can it still have any power?
Rebirth is necessary, you must be born again. My rebirth came when I asked Jesus to come into my heart.
 
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Religiot

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You got to get a balance there! Its the unbeliever who has the license to sin.
I agree with the entire post, except for that one part.

Unbelievers are doomed, so they are expressly without a license to sin.

The term 'license to sin', denotes the false doctrine that belief in Christ is equal to permission from God to sin with impunity; and is therefore an important term when describing those who believe, yet work iniquity.

True believers are not workers of iniquity, no, they are workers of what is good towards God; and the grace of God, to them, is for repentance of sin, and not the practice of it.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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We are told in Scripture to follow our Lord's example

Jesus said things in His Earthly Ministry to the Jews where both He and His Audience were under the Law that
After the Cross, and in the Age Of Grace That it brought about, That we are now to Follow Paul....Jesus revealed to Paul Secrets that were never revealed to the twelve.....after the Cross , and after His Ascension , Paul was God's “ Chosen Vessel”...... The writings of Paul is where we go to get our Doctrine now. Jesus DID everything ......Paul was chosen to explain it.....we Follow Paul now, as he follows Christ....
 
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