THEOCRACY/THEARCHY - Past And Future

GospelS · Apr 17, 2020

bling said:
The Kingdom has come and it is a Spiritual Kingdom, as soon as you try to imagine an earthly physical kingdom you windup with huge issues. A Spiritual Kingdom that extends into heaven and infinite resolve the issues. On earth we are sexual beings, which creates natural competition, coveting, jealousy and if everyone does not have it all (like we find in heaven) there will be sinful desires?

Hello @bling, thanks for sharing. I believe our glorified bodies will live on earth for 1000 years under God's kingdom here on earth. We will reign with Him and have work to do to bring a renewed earth that resembles the garden of Eden. Then after 1000 years of reign all will be new and heaven and earth will become one.

HARK! · Apr 17, 2020

bling said:
The Kingdom has come and it is a Spiritual Kingdom, as soon as you try to imagine an earthly physical kingdom you windup with huge issues. A Spiritual Kingdom that extends into heaven and infinite resolve the issues. On earth we are sexual beings, which creates natural competition, coveting, jealousy and if everyone does not have it all (like we find in heaven) there will be sinful desires?

Where does this happen?:

(CLV) Re 20:7
And whenever the thousand years should be finished, Satan will be loosed out of his jail.

(CLV) Re 20:8
And he will be coming out to deceive all the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to be mobilizing them for battle, their number being as the sand of the sea.

faroukfarouk · Apr 17, 2020

gospels said:
Hello @bling, thanks for sharing. I believe our glorified bodies will live on earth for 1000 years under God's kingdom here on earth. We will reign with Him and have work to do to bring a renewed earth that resembles the garden of Eden. Then after 1000 years of reign all will be new and heaven and earth will become one.

So you're dispensational rather than amillennial?

bling · Apr 17, 2020

gospels said:
Hello @bling, thanks for sharing. I believe our glorified bodies will live on earth for 1000 years under God's kingdom here on earth. We will reign with Him and have work to do to bring a renewed earth that resembles the garden of Eden. Then after 1000 years of reign all will be new and heaven and earth will become one.

To me this is not a salvation issue, so our disagreeing makes little difference and not worth of a much deeper study. Just realize not everyone is accepting this idea of a literal 1000 year reign.

GospelS · Apr 17, 2020

faroukfarouk said:
So you're dispensational rather than amillennial?

I don't prefer to call myself anything but 'God's Chosen Israel'. That is all I'm because that is what God calls His people.

bling · Apr 17, 2020

HARK! said:
Where does this happen?:

(CLV) Re 20:7
And whenever the thousand years should be finished, Satan will be loosed out of his jail.

(CLV) Re 20:8
And he will be coming out to deceive all the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to be mobilizing them for battle, their number being as the sand of the sea.

What I just said was: To me this is not a salvation issue, so our disagreeing makes little difference and not worth of a much deeper study. Just realize not everyone is accepting this idea of a literal 1000 year reign.
Revelation is a very figurative letter much of which should not be taken literally. A 1000 years can just represent a long time and actually be the age we are in right now that started with Pentecost.

expos4ever · Apr 17, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) Ex 12:49
One law shall there be for both the native and for the sojourner sojourning in your midst.

This only indicates that the Law applies to Israel as well as to those non-Israelites who might otherwise be integrated into their particular society - the Law of Moses never applied to rest of the Gentile world. In fact, one of the functions of the Law was to mark out the Israelite as distinct from the rest of the world:

You are therefore to make a distinction between the clean animal and the unclean, and between the unclean bird and the clean; and you shall not make [o]yourselves detestable by animal or by bird or by anything [p]that creeps on the ground, which I have separated for you as unclean. 26 Thus you are to be holy to Me, for I the Lord am holy; and I have set you apart from the peoples to be Mine.

faroukfarouk · Apr 17, 2020

gospels said:
I don't prefer to call myself anything but 'God's Chosen Israel'. That is all I'm because that is what God calls His people.

Well, I would look to the terminology of 1 Corinthians 10.32.

GospelS · Apr 17, 2020

bling said:
What I just said was: To me this is not a salvation issue, so our disagreeing makes little difference and not worth of a much deeper study. Just realize not everyone is accepting this idea of a literal 1000 year reign.
Revelation is a very figurative letter much of which should not be taken literally. A 1000 years can just represent a long time and actually be the age we are in right now that started with Pentecost.

Hello @bling God describes His overall plan in the Feasts of the Lord (Leviticus 23). God time is very specific and He runs everything according to that time He has already set. I hope you do an in-depth study of the Feasts of the Lord. That will be very helpful for understanding the Revelation, many future prophecies and His coming kingdom. Also, try to find out about the 7th day and 8th day of the Lord.

Dave L · Apr 17, 2020

gospels said:
What would be the difference between God’s rulership in the past with the physical Israel here on earth and the spiritual Israel that is to come. God will still be ruling from His holy city of Jerusalem.

While I ponder this in my spirit, I honestly think we will be perfectly able to keep the complete instructions of God in the kingdom that is to come, the same which the physical Israel failed at. And for this reason God made a way for us through His Son.

Jesus says his kingdom is not of this world. And only the born again can see it. + a whole lot more making it impossible.

HARK! · Apr 17, 2020

expos4ever said:
This only indicates that the Law applies to Israel as well as to those non-Israelites who might otherwise be integrated into their particular society

(CLV) Ro 2:12
for whoever sinned without law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged.

Which will you choose, judgement or death?

...or are you without sin?

GospelS · Apr 17, 2020

Sabertooth said:
I refer to the Kingdom where Jesus rules the Earth in Person as the Thearchy. (It is a real word in the dictionary.)

I like that. Added that to the OP title. Thanks for sharing.

expos4ever · Apr 17, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) Ro 2:12
for whoever sinned without law, without law also shall perish, and whoever sinned in law, through law will be judged.

Which will you choose, judgement or death?

...or are you without sin?

How is this relevant? My post was about the scope of application of the Law of Moses. The fact that the Law of Moses is limited in its scope of application to the nation of Israel does not mean that the rest of us will not be judged, just as Paul declares in Romans 12:2. We just won't be judged by the Law of Moses.

expos4ever · Apr 17, 2020

Dave L said:
Jesus says his kingdom is not of this world.

"My kingdom is not of this world."

Jesus seems to be saying "My kingdom has nothing to do with earthly kingdoms, so there is no 'political' dimension to my kingdom".

As it turns out, there is a huge translation issue here. Here is the rendering of verse 36 as per the NET Bible:

Jesus replied, “My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my servants would be fighting to keep me from being 1 handed over 2 to the Jewish authorities. 3 But as it is, 4 my kingdom is not from here.

The NET version is, my sources indicate, true to the original Greek. The greek word that is rendered “from” (above in the bolded and underlined cases) has the following definition:

“a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote)”

When the word is used properly, we see that the “not of this world” reading is misleading. The intended meaning is that the Kingdom that has been brought to earth is from Heaven - that is, Heaven is the point of origin for the Kingdom that has been initiated.

Jesus is a King. Jesus' kingdom, while not from this world, is rather clearly for this world.

HARK! · Apr 17, 2020

expos4ever said:
the Law of Moses is limited in its scope of application to the nation of Israel

(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Dave L · Apr 17, 2020

expos4ever said:
"My kingdom is not of this world."

Jesus seems to be saying "My kingdom has nothing to do with earthly kingdoms, so there is no 'political' dimension to my kingdom".

As it turns out, there is a huge translation issue here. Here is the rendering of verse 36 as per the NET Bible:

Jesus replied, “My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my servants would be fighting to keep me from being 1 handed over 2 to the Jewish authorities. 3 But as it is, 4 my kingdom is not from here.

The NET version is, my sources indicate, true to the original Greek. The greek word that is rendered “from” (above in the bolded and underlined cases) has the following definition:

“a primary preposition denoting origin (the point whence action or motion proceeds), from, out (of place, time, or cause; literal or figurative; direct or remote)”

When the word is used properly, we see that the “not of this world” reading is misleading. The intended meaning is that the Kingdom that has been brought to earth is from Heaven - that is, Heaven is the point of origin for the Kingdom that has been initiated.

Jesus is a King. Jesus' kingdom, while not from this world, is rather clearly for this world.

“Jesus answered, “My kingdom does not belong to this world. If it belonged to this world, my servants would have fought to keep me from being given over to the Jewish leaders. But my kingdom is from another place.”” John 18:36 (EXPNT)

HARK! · Apr 17, 2020

expos4ever said:
"My kingdom is not of this world."

Jesus seems to be saying "My kingdom has nothing to do with earthly kingdoms, so there is no 'political' dimension to my kingdom".

As it turns out, there is a huge translation issue here. Here is the rendering of verse 36 as per the NET Bible:

Jesus replied, “My kingdom is not from this world. If my kingdom were from this world, my servants would be fighting to keep me from being 1 handed over 2 to the Jewish authorities. 3 But as it is, 4 my kingdom is not from here.

That doesn't strike me as a huge issue.

I can say, "it's a product of Mexico;" or I can say "it's a product from Mexico."

They both say virtually the same thing. As a matter of fact, in Spanish there is one word for both English words, "de."

expos4ever · Apr 17, 2020

Dave L said:
“Jesus answered, “My kingdom does not belong to this world. If it belonged to this world, my servants would have fought to keep me from being given over to the Jewish leaders. But my kingdom is from another place.”” John 18:36 (EXPNT)

Not sure what your point is. I see nothing in this translation that challenges the view that Jesus established an earthly kingdom. A proper translation shows that Jesus is referring to "where the governing principles come from", and not "where the kingdom is situated".

In any event, I believe the overall Biblical picture is clear: the kingdom is an earthly one, and it has already been established.

expos4ever · Apr 17, 2020

HARK! said:
(CLV) Hb 8:10
"For this is the covenant which I shall be covenanting with the house of Israel after those days," the Lord is saying: "Imparting My laws to their comprehension, On their hearts, also, shall I be inscribing them, And I shall be to them for a God, And they shall be to Me for a people.

(CLV) Mt 15:24
Now He, [Yahshua] answering, said, "I was not commissioned except for the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Not sure what your point is here.

Dave L · Apr 17, 2020

expos4ever said:
Not sure what your point is. I see nothing in this translation that challenges the view that Jesus established an earthly kingdom. A proper translation shows that Jesus is referring to "where the governing principles come from", and not "where the kingdom is situated".

In any event, I believe the overall Biblical picture is clear: the kingdom is an earthly one, and it has already been established.

Here's the challenge. Produce one scripture from the gospels or epistles that says the kingdom is physical.

THEOCRACY/THEARCHY - Past And Future

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