Why do dispensationalists chop up the bible into different ages?

Guojing

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I don't really think it matters to be honest. That is what I mean by dispensationalism makes errors. I mean who cares when the church started? If dispensationalists are fighting over this, all the more to move away from that. I presume the whole reason for the debate, is to chop of the various gospels in the new testament at various points, and to know when grace came. But we know grace came with Christ, it says so. I would go further and say that all those who believed in Christ (even before the cross but during Christ's ministry) were saved by grace. But a dispensationalist may even put them under law, I don't know. But it's endless debates over nothingness that made me realize I could never be hyper dispensationalist, or even classic dispensationalist. If anything I am a soft dispensationalist, but I am not sure if I want to be associated at all with it. The more I talk to you. I think I am just a Bible believer who believes there are various ages in scripture. Call it dispensation, or age, or covenant, it does not matter to me.

Let me give you an example why it matters.

If you are Acts 2, you will also believe that it is possible for certain sins a Christian can commit, to be punished by death from God, aka Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5.

That means, we are not in the age of grace yet, where sin is not imputed to the believer because he is not under law (Romans 5:13).
 
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createdtoworship

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Let me give you an example why it matters.

If you are Acts 2, you will also believe that it is possible for certain sins a Christian can commit, to be punished by death from God, aka Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5.

That means, we are not in the age of grace yet, where sin is not imputed to the believer because he is not under law (Romans 5:13).
sir God can allow people to die at any moment during the age of grace. 975 have died of corona today alone in america just in about 12 hours. God can do whatever He wants, whenever He wants. God is not limited by ages or dispensations, God is beyond time and space and sees the end from the beginning.
 
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Guojing

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sir God can allow people to die at any moment during the age of grace. 975 have died of corona today alone in america just in about 12 hours. God can do whatever He wants, whenever He wants. God is not limited by ages or dispensations, God is beyond time and space and sees the end from the beginning.

I specifically indicated Christians dying from God judgment due to a sin they committed.
 
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createdtoworship

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I specifically indicated Christians dying from God judgment due to a sin they committed.
again christians die every day from sins they commit. Think of drug abuse etc. I think overdose is God judging a person temporarily for sin. I am not saying addiction to chemicals causes salvation to go away, I am just saying that deaths happen all the time due to God judging our actions. Think of drunk driving and hitting a tree. God allowed that. I think it's God judging sin. But this is what I mean, most people see this is the case. But dispensationalists are so caught up on the various theological boundaries set up that they confuse themselves on basic stuff.
 
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Guojing

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again christians die every day from sins they commit. Think of drug abuse etc. I think overdose is God judging a person temporarily for sin. I am not saying addiction to chemicals causes salvation to go away, I am just saying that deaths happen all the time due to God judging our actions. Think of drunk driving and hitting a tree. God allowed that. I think it's God judging sin. But this is what I mean, most people see this is the case. But dispensationalists are so caught up on the various theological boundaries set up that they confuse themselves on basic stuff.

Don't mix up natural consequences of sins, and God punishing you for your sins himself.

There is no natural link between lying about how much you gave to the Lord, and getting yourself killed.
 
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nolidad

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No one expected Jesus to die on the cross until it finally happened, not even Peter, who rebuked Jesus for telling them that.

Well He had told the twelve before Peter opend mouth and inserted foot!

But from divine perspective all from Adam are bought through the blood of Jesus. Not by works, or obedience or piety or devotion or anything else. They acted in faith as God directed in their dispensationa nd God counted it as righteousness based on the blood Jesus was to shed in the future.
 
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nolidad

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I don't really think it matters to be honest. That is what I mean by dispensationalism makes errors. I mean who cares when the church started? If dispensationalists are fighting over this, all the more to move away from that. I presume the whole reason for the debate, is to chop of the various gospels in the new testament at various points, and to know when grace came. But we know grace came with Christ, it says so. I would go further and say that all those who believed in Christ (even before the cross but during Christ's ministry) were saved by grace. But a dispensationalist may even put them under law, I don't know. But it's endless debates over nothingness that made me realize I could never be hyper dispensationalist, or even classic dispensationalist. If anything I am a soft dispensationalist, but I am not sure if I want to be associated at all with it. The more I talk to you. I think I am just a Bible believer who believes there are various ages in scripture. Call it dispensation, or age, or covenant, it does not matter to me.

AFAIK, all major dispensationalists do not put peoples salvation by the Law!

All the levels of dispensationalism yo give are monikers given by those who hate dispensationalists! Dispensationalism is simply a way of understanding Scripture in opposition to what is called covenant theology!

YOu will find in fighting in covenant adherents as well as dispensational adherents. Neither one is demanded by SCripture as in "Thus sayeth the Lord".

But a dispensational hermeneutic does far less damge to SCripture than a covenant hermeneutic does. Those are the rtwo basic methods of hemeneutics. They both have variations but those are the two root systems of seeking to "rightly divide the Word of Truth".
 
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Guojing

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Well He had told the twelve before Peter opend mouth and inserted foot!

But from divine perspective all from Adam are bought through the blood of Jesus. Not by works, or obedience or piety or devotion or anything else. They acted in faith as God directed in their dispensationa nd God counted it as righteousness based on the blood Jesus was to shed in the future.

Read the scripture, instead of reading into it. Jesus told them but they obviously did not believe it. No one was camping outside the tomb, counting down to his resurrection.

When the ladies told the 12, they all thought someone stole the body.
 
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createdtoworship

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Read the scripture, instead of reading into it. Jesus told them but they obviously did not believe it. No one was camping outside the tomb, counting down to his resurrection.

When the ladies told the 12, they all thought someone stole the body.
and yet they were all saved, Jesus said repeatedly they were saved, and they hadn't even had faith in the resurrection of Christ. So that just goes to show, that I think as long as you don't deny the miraculousness of Christ and His life, but you have repented and trusted in His salvation. God will work out the kinks in your theology, sometime in your life. I went soteriologically from thinking people who believe in repentance were not saved and were teaching heresy, to becoming one of those preaching repentance. So I have seen both sides of the theological spectrum. And both sides treat the other side as really bad. It's important to have grace with those different than ourselves. I have never NEVER met someone I agreed with 100% on all doctrine. So there is that. If I chose to have my friends only who agreed with me 100%, I would be very lonely indeed.
 
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Guojing

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and yet they were all saved, Jesus said repeatedly they were saved, and they hadn't even had faith in the resurrection of Christ. So that just goes to show, that I think as long as you don't deny the miraculousness of Christ and His life, but you have repented and trusted in His salvation. God will work out the kinks in your theology, sometime in your life. I went soteriologically from thinking people who believe in repentance were not saved and were teaching heresy, to becoming one of those preaching repentance. So I have seen both sides of the theological spectrum. And both sides treat the other side as really bad. It's important to have grace with those different than ourselves. I have never NEVER met someone I agreed with 100% on all doctrine. So there is that. If I chose to have my friends only who agreed with me 100%, I would be very lonely indeed.

the gospel of the kingdom does not require one to believe in the resurrection to be saved

you need to believe Jesus is the Christ. Both Peter and Martha acknowledges that. John 20:30-31 also tells us that is the purpose why John was written

but now that gospel is no longer the gospel that saves, its 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
 
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createdtoworship

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the gospel of the kingdom does not require one to believe in the resurrection to be saved

you need to believe Jesus is the Christ. Both Peter and Martha acknowledges that. John 20:30-31 also tells us that is the purpose why John was written

but now that gospel is no longer the gospel that saves, its 1 Corinthians 15:1-4
There is only one salvation. Period. The Gospel of the kingdom for example is the same gospel as pauls gospel, is the same as the everlasting gospel, it's all the same. This is a dispensational misunderstanding. I think God focuses on different aspects of the same gospel because different audiences needed different emphasis. But it is cumulatively one gospel. You find the same issue with the synoptic problem, what would seem like a contradiction between two gospel writers becomes clear when you study that they were written for different audiences, and different emphasis. The Gospel of John does not have the word repent at all in it for example. But matthew talks all about the gospel of the kingdom. But that is because jews were looking for a king. The messiah, the a gospel of the kingdom made sense to them. But jews are not saved any different than a gentile. It's just that certain aspects were verbalized differently.
 
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Guojing

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There is only one salvation. Period. The Gospel of the kingdom for example is the same gospel as pauls gospel, is the same as the everlasting gospel, it's all the same. This is a dispensational misunderstanding. I think God focuses on different aspects of the same gospel because different audiences needed different emphasis. But it is cumulatively one gospel. You find the same issue with the synoptic problem, what would seem like a contradiction between two gospel writers becomes clear when you study that they were written for different audiences, and different emphasis. The Gospel of John does not have the word repent at all in it for example. But matthew talks all about the gospel of the kingdom. But that is because jews were looking for a king. The messiah, the a gospel of the kingdom made sense to them. But jews are not saved any different than a gentile. It's just that certain aspects were verbalized differently.

Before Paul, Gentiles have to be saved by converting to Judaism, aka being a Jew, as stated in Exodus 12:48, and repeated in Acts 15:1. They have to be circumcised and obey the Law of Moses.

Now, its different, all of us, Jews and Gentiles are saved by the gospel of grace, stated in 1 Cor 15:1-4
 
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createdtoworship

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Before Paul, Gentiles have to be saved by converting to Judaism, aka being a Jew, as stated in Exodus 12:48, and repeated in Acts 15:1. They have to be circumcised and obey the Law of Moses.

Now, its different, all of us, Jews and Gentiles are saved by the gospel of grace, stated in 1 Cor 15:1-4
sir you just made all of Christs words null and void until paul somehow miraculously brough all of Christs words alive. Becuase they were somehow not active until paul? This is what I mean. I could never go back to classical dispensationalism. It's just too strange when you take a macro snapshot of it. It dices and slices the scripture into like 7 or more dispensations, each with their own gospel. No thanks, I think I will just read scripture and believe all of it applies to all of us as we should believe.
 
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Guojing

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sir you just made all of Christs words null and void until paul somehow miraculously brough all of Christs words alive. Becuase they were somehow not active until paul? This is what I mean. I could never go back to classical dispensationalism. It's just too strange when you take a macro snapshot of it. It dices and slices the scripture into like 7 or more dispensations, each with their own gospel. No thanks, I think I will just read scripture and believe all of it applies to all of us as we should believe.

Jesus himself told the Gentiles Matthew 15:24 I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Paul himself told us in Romans 15:8: Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

So yes, scripture tells us Christ words in the 4 gospels were directed to the Jews. Don't be dishearten though. He saved Paul specifically to send him to reach to former Gentiles like us. Paul repeated it many times in Acts, as well as in his letters.
Acts 9:15

Acts 22:21
Acts 26:17
 
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createdtoworship

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Jesus himself told the Gentiles Matthew 15:24 I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Paul himself told us in Romans 15:8: Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

So yes, scripture tells us Christ words in the 4 gospels were directed to the Jews. Don't be dishearten though. He saved Paul specifically to send him to reach to former Gentiles like us. Paul repeated it many times in Acts, as well as in his letters.
Acts 9:15

Acts 22:21
Acts 26:17
ok then Jesus was only for the Jews according to those verses. Are you Jewish, if not then don't call yourself a christian. Right? That is what you mean?
 
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Guojing

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ok then Jesus was only for the Jews according to those verses. Are you Jewish, if not then don't call yourself a christian. Right? That is what you mean?

Under the gospel of grace, the body of Christ has neither Jew Nor Gentile, all of us are equal
 
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nolidad

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Read the scripture, instead of reading into it. Jesus told them but they obviously did not believe it. No one was camping outside the tomb, counting down to his resurrection.

When the ladies told the 12, they all thought someone stole the body.

I am not contending they believed it for they didn't. But they were told about it by Jesus! That is all I am saying!
 
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ok then Jesus was only for the Jews according to those verses. Are you Jewish, if not then don't call yourself a christian. Right? That is what you mean?

Jesus FIRST came to be Messiah of Israel ! But He knew they would reject HIm, but still gave a legitimate offer to Israel. After Pentecost, the mystery of the church was born!
 
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