What are the BIG things in the Bible we must accept as Christians? (Please no debating or criticism)

Dorothy Mae · Mar 19, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
What are the BIG things in the Bible we must accept as Christians?

Note: This is not meant to be an exhaustive set of lists.
They are lists that describe important things we believers must accept.
Also, keep in mind that these lists are ever under construction (as God gives more knowledge to me).

Anyways, just provide the best list or lists that you can.
In fact, here are my starter lists of some BIG things that I can think of off the top of my head that are essential for us Christians.

To be initially saved, we must believe:

In the Gospel (Which is believing that Jesus Christ died for our sins, was buried, and was risen three days later according to the Scriptures for our salvation).

God as revealed in the Bible is the one and only true God.

The Bible is a holy book or it is the very words of God.

Looks good.

Truths in the Bible that when revealed to us, we must believe in them:

In other words, if we have the capability and time to study the Bible in this life, and be guided by the Spirit, we must in time believe:

In the Trinity (i.e. God exists as three distinct persons and yet He is one God or being).

Jesus is GOD and uncreated.

The Incarnation (Jesus came into the flesh).

Jesus is fully GOD and man.

Jesus is the only mediator between GOD and man.

God is spirit.

In Worshiping GOD in spirit and in truth.

In the Bible Alone (as our sole authority) + In the Anointing to Understand it.

In being born again by the Spirit.

In being born again by water (Scripture).

God is love (God is the source of all true love; We seek and hold tightly to His love with our entire being).

God is good (He is the source of all good; Man may be able to imitate good, but God holds the true way of good that we must abide within. His judgments, actions, and commands are based on Moral principles that are good).

In the rapture or taking up.

Resurrection? Rapture? Please give a scripture where that is used or referred to as a single event outside of the resurrection. That’s a 19th century new theology.

In the bodily resurrection.

In Original Sin (Meaning: All of mankind has sinned against God and he has been corrupted by sin (via by Adam's sin) whereby it necessitates the need for a Savior to solve our diseased state of sinfulness).

Please find “original sin”
in the Bible

In Christ's Imputation or Substitutionary Atonement. (Jesus died in our place for our sins when we exercise proper and true faith).

A theological point

God has a greater plan for good that we cannot see (all things work together for good to those who love God).

I see it just fine. I know the plan of God. So you’re wrong there and I don’t see where the Bible insists we don’t know.

In man's responsibility to answer God's call to grace (forgiveness through Jesus and in believing the gospel), and God's call to enter the Sanctification Process (living holy by God's power) as a part of God's plan of salvation.

God is holy (God is separate from the creation. God is pure, and clean, and there is no darkness in God. He is distinct. God has alway existed, and He is all powerful. God is worthy to be worshiped because of his holiness and uniqueness in being God, the creator and the Savior, and above all things).

In trusting in the sufficiency of God (God is really all I need above anything else).

Jesus said God knows we need food and clothing so He disagrees with you.

God is a rewarder to those who seek Him.

There is a heaven, hell, judgment, and a new earth.

There is a devil and his minions who have many deceptions in an attempt to destroy us (Note: Scripture says we are not to be ignorant of his devices).

We are in a spiritual battle, and not a physical one.

We are under a New Covenant (by Christ's death) with new commands (that come from the New Testament, and we do not attempt to justify ourselves by obeying the whole of the 613 laws of the Old Testament Law of Moses (Important Note: While the Moral Laws have carried over: Like do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, etc., the ceremonial laws like circumcision, sabbaths, and dietary laws have not carried over; Neither have any of the judicial laws carried over, either (like capital punishment laws in stoning).

Only past sin is forgiven us. Future sin is not forgiven us; All sin must be confessed and forsaken in order to have mercy.

Christ's Blood Atonement; For without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness of sin.

All good.

Commands in the Bible that when revealed to us, we must obey them:

In other words, if we have the capability and time to study the Bible in this life, and be guided by the Spirit, we must in time obey:

In denying ourselves, and in surrendering our lives to the Lord to follow Him.

In loving God with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength.

In loving our neighbor (Helping the poor).

In loving the brethren (Feeding the sheep & providing for them).

In loving our enemies (Doing good towards them and in praying for them, not returning evil for evil, making peace with all men).

In preaching or spreading the gospel.

In studying God's Word to show ourselves approved of unto God.

By praying to GOD.

By praising GOD.

By giving thanks unto GOD.

God's command to hold fast the profession of our faith in Jesus as our Savior and His grace;

In Confessing our sins to Jesus if we happen to stumble into sin on rare occasion.

God's commands in the New Testament (and or in living holy) as per the Sanctification Process by the power of the Lord.

In walking by faith in God's Word, and not by sight.

In doing all things to the glory of God.

In doing all things in love.

In not adding or taking away from God's Word (the Bible).

In being separate from the world and its ways.

In not loving money, and refusing to chase after the riches of this world.

In not being ashamed of Christ and or if we are persecuted.

In forgiving everyone.

Pretty good but many rather vague and unable to be measured.

Ok I went through the list as promised.

Dorothy Mae · Mar 19, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
I have already been over this point before (within this thread), but Jesus Himself made lists. It would be the equivalent of what Christians today call as the "Beattitudes."

"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." (Matthew 5:3-12).

This is likely the problem. Where Jesus promises a blessing, you see a rule. Where he tells us what God rewards in love, you see an obligation we have to
do or else we’re not a Christian.

Also, Jesus gave us the two greatest commandments, too (Mark 12:29-31).
This is technically a numbered list (Although it is a short one).

Your list is a lot longer than 2. Basically if a man really loves God and loves others as himself, he’d fulfill all the rules.

Notice believing in the rapture or original sin doesn’t fall into either of those categories.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 19, 2020

Dorothy Mae said:
Looks good. Resurrection? Rapture? Please give a scripture where that is used or referred to as a single event outside of the resurrection. That’s a 19th century new theology.

Human history and man's reason alone is not how we build doctrine or discover truth within God's Word. The Bible should be our sole authority with the guidance of the Spirit. To see a description of the Rapture and its clues, check out this CF thread here. I believe those who say that the Lord delays His coming (Luke 12:45-46) will miss out on the Rapture, and have their portion with the unbelievers in being left behind. This saying in Scripture does not really fit the other views (Mid Trib, Post Trib, or No Rapture view). The only way a person can say that the Lord delays his coming is by saying that He is coming in an hour or day that they specify.

You said:
Please find “original sin”
in the Bible

The word "Bible" is not in the Bible, that does not invalidate the use of that word.

Psalms 51:5 says, "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."

Ephesians 2:3 says, "...and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

Proverbs 22:15 says, "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child;"

Genesis 8:21 says, "...for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth;"

1 Corinthians 15:22 says,
"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

Romans 5:12 says,
"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

Romans 5:14 says,
"Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come."

Bible Highlighter said:
In Christ's Imputation or Substitutionary Atonement. (Jesus died in our place for our sins when we exercise proper and true faith).

You said:
A theological point

No. It's a part of believing the gospel by which we are saved.

1 "Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: " (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).

Christ dying for OUR sins is the Substitutionary Atonement.

"But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed." (Isaiah 53:5).

You said:
I see it just fine. I know the plan of God. So you’re with there and I don’t see where the Bible insists we don’t know.

Did Job know ahead of time what was going to happen as a result of his suffering?

Bible Highlighter said:
3. In trusting in the sufficiency of God (God is really all I need above anything else).

You said:
Jesus said God knows we need food and clothing so He disagrees with you.

Can you have food without God? Surely you are seeing something in my words that are not there. This is a form of wooden literalism that many Christians take with the Bible (Whereby they misunderstand what it says many times). Surely I was not referring to how we do not need food, clothing, shelter, etc.; But that God is our sufficiency first so as to provide us all we need in life including the fulfilling of basic physical needs. But above meeting the physical needs like food, etc. (Which we do require and God provides for us), God provides the more important needs like meeting our needs for love, peace, joy, etc.

My point is that we would not have anything if it was not for God.
God is all I need in that He meets our needs both spiritually and physically.

You said:
All good.

Thanks.

You said:
Pretty good but many rather value and unable to be measured.

God can measure what we do for Him. God is concerned that we are faithful over a few things as per the Parable of the Talents (Matthew 25).

You said:
Ok I went through the list as promised.

I appreciate it. I hope that you can see now that it was not what you were initially thinking (from a more negative view at first).

Bible Highlighter · Mar 19, 2020

Dorothy Mae said:
This is likely the problem. Where Jesus promises a blessing, you see a rule. Where he tells us what God rewards in love, you see an obligation we have to
do or else we’re not a Christian.
Your list is a lot longer than 2. Basically if a man really loves God and loves others as himself, he’d fulfill all the rules.

*Sigh*

I didn't say the Beatitudes were rules. I said that it is a list that Jesus made because you said before how believers did not make lists in Scripture. Yet, Jesus Himself made lists. That was my point. Oh, and yes. While the Beatitudes are not exactly rules or commands, the two greatest commandments are rules and it is a list (albeit a short list).

You said my list is a lot longer than the greatest two commands. But again, I did not invent the list of my own imagining. The list is purely taken from Scripture. I am not claiming that the numbering of my list is authoritative by any means. It's not the numbers that are authoritative, but the content itself (Which is derived from Scripture). I only created the content of the information in list form because it helps readers to identify the content better.

You said:
Notice believing in the rapture or original sin doesn’t fall into either of those categories.

I see the Rapture as a form of rebuke or chastening upon the majority of Christians today who justify sin and or who have disdain for God's commands. Please take note that I believe one needs to first be saved by God's grace before they can obey God's commands in the New Testament or before they can enter the Sanctification Process by the Spirit in living holy. Those Christians who are left behind who were warned will know that they shouldn't have justified sin, and they will have a second chance to partake of the Mid Trib Gathering up by angels (as mentioned in the Olivet Discourse). If they are still thick headed spiritually, they will have to be willing to be martyred for the Antichrist and refusing to take the Mark.

Not accepting Original Sin is not only rejecting what the Bible says, but it can lead to the wrong idea that man is basically good (Which is not the case). This means that if man is not born with a problem to solve, then they really do not need a Savior. So while not accepting Original Sin may not be a salvation issue initially, it can lead to eventual wrong thinking that can be a salvation issue later down the road. Error can spread like a cancer and lead to more wrongful thinking. Granted, this may not always be the case.

Charlie24 · Mar 19, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Even if you believe that works in and of themselves are not meritorious or meriting salvation in some way, the fact that they need to be there as a result of showing that one is saved shows their necessity or in the fact that they are meritorious. It would be like trying to divorce a butterfly from a caterpillar. They are one and the same creature. If a person is saved, and works is a byproduct of being saved, then they are needed for salvation to show that one is saved properly by faith. For if there is no works, then one is not saved. But works do not save alone without God's grace. Good works are the result of God doing the good work through the believer (after they are saved by God's grace). Works are the result of knowing God. For God does the good work in a true believer. For Paul says we can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16). The way we can have an assurance of knowing God is if we find that we are keeping His commandments (See: 1 John 2:3).

But it is more than just doing good works. It is living holy. For Hebrews 12:14 says that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. This means one cannot justify grievous sin in any way. Meaning, a believer cannot think that they can abide in certain grievous unconfessed sins (even for a short time) that God's Word condemns with warnings of hellfire or a loss of salvation (like lying, lusting, hating, etc.) and also think they are automatically saved by having a belief alone on Jesus. Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

In Matthew 7:23, we learn that those who did wonderful works in Christ's name did not make it. It is because they justified sin or evil. For Jesus said to these believers to depart from Him because they worked iniquity. They did not know Jesus because they did not keep His commandments (1 John 2:3-4). In Matthew 7, we do not see a greasy grace form of Belief Alone-ism being pushed while somebody can abide in occasional grievous sin that the Bible condemns. No, no. Most certainly not. Jesus said we will know false prophets by their fruit (i.e. deeds). Jesus essentially said a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit and vise versa. In Matthew 7:26-27, those who did not do what Jesus says is related to a fool who built his house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house. Kind of like this....

But Belief Alone-ism is not used as an example in this clear Parable.
Obedience to Jesus is used instead.

Obedience is submitting yourself unto the Lord.

Everything you mentioned in this post cannot be done by you through your efforts.

You must do as Paul told us, die daily to yourself. 1Cor. 15:31. This is what Jesus meant in Luke 9:23, "let him deny himself." This is to stop trying to make yourself holy in any way, and let the Spirit do it, then the Lord will accept it and fruits will result.

It's only thorough our faith that the Lord can accomplish these things, if we get in the way it is no longer Gods grace, our efforts cancel out the grace.

All I can do is point to the way, you can ignore it or you can begin a study of your own and see for yourself.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 19, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Obedience is submitting yourself unto the Lord.

Everything you mentioned in this post cannot be done by you through your efforts.

You must do as Paul told us, die daily to yourself. 1Cor. 15:31. This is what Jesus meant in Luke 9:23, "let him deny himself." This is to stop trying to make yourself holy in any way, and let the Spirit do it, then the Lord will accept it and fruits will result.

It's only thorough our faith that the Lord can accomplish these things, if we get in the way it is no longer Gods grace, our efforts cancel out the grace.

All I can do is point to the way, you can ignore it or you can begin a study of your own and see for yourself.

First, I already told you multiple times already that God does the good work through the believer and it is not the believer doing the good work by his own power alone.

Second, while works or Sanctification flows from out of one's faith in God's grace, just believing in Jesus for salvation alone and doing nothing is not the key for Sanctification to happen. Meaning: God does not force you to do good just because you believe in Jesus alone for salvation.

For Scripture says:

"Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit...". (1 Peter 1:22) (cf. Romans 8:13).

"Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word." (Psalms 119:9)

"For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:" (1 Thessalonians 4:3).

"That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour;" (1 Thessalonians 4:4).

"Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God." (2 Corinthians 7:1).

"For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness." (1 Thessalonians 4:7).

"So all people who have this confidence in Christ keep themselves pure, as Christ is pure." (1 John 3:3 GW).

"Be ye holy; for I am holy." (1 Peter 1:16).

"...even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness." (Romans 6:19).

"Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh" (Galatians 5:16).

"Let us not be [Do not be] weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not" (Galatians 6:9).

"Show for yourself a pattern of good works in all things" (Titus 2:7).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).

For if believing in Jesus alone for salvation was the key to living a holy life, then what happened to George Sodini, and Kenneth Nally? Why didn't Sanctification work for them by believing in Jesus alone for salvation? George turned out to be a mass murderer, and he took his own life. In his own suicide letter, he wrote how Jesus forgave all his sins and salvation did not depend on works. Kenneth Nally was convinced by John MacArthur's ministry that he could commit suicide and still be saved. That is exactly what Kenneth did. He took his own life believing the lie that he could sin and still be saved by having a belief alone on Jesus.

Charlie24 · Mar 20, 2020

Faith alone is not a belief, it's a total surrender to Christ, it's a relationship. It's being crucified with Christ with the new man now depending totally on Christ, with no effort of his own for salvation at all.

It's the only way grace can work. If you do this or do that, it is no longer by grace and you fall under law by your own efforts.

Faith + a few works on your part is not going to cut it with God. Paul has told us repeatedly it's all by the grace of God and nothing on our part but obedience by submission to Christ in faith. This gives the Holy Spirit the authority to work in us to conform us into Christ likeness.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 20, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Faith alone is not a belief, it's a total surrender to Christ, it's a relationship. It's being crucified with Christ with the new man now depending totally on Christ, with no effort of his own for salvation at all.

First, you are not addressing any of the verses I put forth to you like usual.

Second, I am aware of the Free Will Baptist belief (Which is similar to the belief you have stated). According to my experience with talking with folks who believe this way, they believe that surrendering to Christ is placing their entire trust that Jesus died for their sins (past, present, and future). So when they sin physically, they do not sin on a spiritual level because they trust that Jesus died for that sin, even future sin. Although important, confessing and forsaking sin is not necessary to maintain salvation. Just believing in Jesus alone is what is required for salvation. So yes. This is Belief alone-ism, and or Faith Alone, which has nothing to do with surrendering one's life to God in righteous living and in putting away their sin or wicked ways. This belief promotes turning God's grace into a license for immorality and not holiness and or true surrender to God. God cannot agree with turning His grace into doing something that is wrong. God is good and holy. Salvation does not work in this way. If you believe that this belief helps you to live more like Christ and to obey His commands, then why do you appear to speak against obeying His commands?

Three, total surrender to Christ involves obeying Jesus.

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (John 15:10).

Total surrender to Christ is denying yourself, picking up your cross, and following Jesus.

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." (Matthew 16:24).

"Neither yield your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God,..." (Romans 6:13).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;" (Romans 2:8-9).

You said:
It's the only way grace can work. If you do this or do that, it is no longer by grace and you fall under law by your own efforts.

You are wrongfully taking Romans 11:6 out of its context. The context of Romans 9-11 is Israel and how they need salvation by God's grace in the Messiah (Jesus Christ). Paul was telling the Roman believers not to think in the same way as them and go back to seeking in being saved by the Jew's method of salvation (Which was Law Alone Salvationism by the 613 Laws of Moses). See: Acts of the Apostles 13:39, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24.

Faith + a few works on your part is not going to cut it with God.

In Matthew 25:21, the servant who was faithful over a few things was told to enter the joy of his Lord. Yet, the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness (Whereby there was weeping and gnashing of teeth) (Matthew 25:30).

We also know that the Bible teaches after we are saved by God's grace through faith, we also need to enter the Sanctification Process and allow the good works of God to flow through our lives (as believers in Jesus Christ); For...

We are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).
Faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
A person can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16).
Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God, and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28).
Those who have done good, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, shall come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29).
We have to continue in His goodness, otherwise we can be cut off [just like the Jews were cut off] (Romans 11:21-22).
Helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to inheriting the Kingdom (Matthew 25:34-40), and not helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to going away into everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:41-46).
Whoever does not righteousness or does not love his brother is not of God (1 John 3:10).
Whoever does what Jesus says is likened unto a wise man who built his house upon the rock, and when a storm came, it did not fall, (Matthew 7:24-25), but the person who does not do what Jesus says is likened unto a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).
Abiding in Jesus will bear much fruit, but if a person does not abide in Jesus [thereby being unfruitful], they are cast out [or cut off] like a branch to be burned in the fire (John 15:5-6).
If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing (1 Peter 4:18-19).
Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14) (NKJV).

You said:
Paul has told us repeatedly it's all by the grace of God and nothing on our part but obedience by submission to Christ in faith. This gives the Holy Spirit the authority to work in us to conform us into Christ likeness.

Well, no offense, but I don't believe you when you say that your belief leads one "to conform us into Christ likeness." You said before that a believer can abide sin and still be saved. This is turning God's grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4). With this kind of thinking there is no real motivation to live a holy life. One will just sin and still be saved their whole life with this kind of wrong thinking. Many who believe as you do have told me that we can never stop sinning this side of Heaven. So if this is the case, then one is not living holy, or being obedient, or conforming to Christ's likeness if they always abide in sin their whole lives. Sinning less does not mean one is conforming. Meeting the basic bare minimum level requirements for living holy and being perfected in holiness is conforming to the image of Christ's likeness. One cannot justify sin and yet still be saved. There are too many warnings in Scripture against the idea that a believer can sin and still be saved. But of course, you are free to ignore those warnings in your Bible (Although I would strongly advise you against doing such a thing).

Charlie24 · Mar 20, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
First, you are not addressing any of the verses I put forth to you like usual.

Second, I am aware of the Free Will Baptist belief (Which is similar to the belief you have stated). According to my experience with talking with folks who believe this way, they believe that surrendering to Christ is placing their entire trust that Jesus died for their sins (past, present, and future). So when they sin physically, they do not sin on a spiritual level because they trust that Jesus died for that sin, even future sin. Although important, confessing and forsaking sin is not necessary to maintain salvation. Just believing in Jesus alone is what is required for salvation. So yes. This is Belief alone-ism, and or Faith Alone, which has nothing to do with surrendering one's life to God in righteous living and in putting away their sin or wicked ways. This belief promotes turning God's grace into a license for immorality and not holiness and or true surrender to God. God cannot agree with turning His grace into doing something that is wrong. God is good and holy. Salvation does not work in this way. If you believe that this belief helps you to live more like Christ and to obey His commands, then why do you appear to speak against obeying His commands?

Three, total surrender to Christ involves obeying Jesus.

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46).

"If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (John 15:10).

Total surrender to Christ is denying yourself, picking up your cross, and following Jesus.

"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me." (Matthew 16:24).

"Neither yield your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God,..." (Romans 6:13).

"But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;" (Romans 2:8-9).

You are wrongfully taking Romans 11:6 out of its context. The context of Romans 9-11 is Israel and how they need salvation by God's grace in the Messiah (Jesus Christ). Paul was telling the Roman believers not to think in the same way as them and go back to seeking in being saved by the Jew's method of salvation (Which was Law Alone Salvationism by the 613 Laws of Moses). See: Acts of the Apostles 13:39, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24.

In Matthew 25:21, the servant who was faithful over a few things was told to enter the joy of his Lord. Yet, the unprofitable servant was cast into outer darkness (Whereby there was weeping and gnashing of teeth) (Matthew 25:30).

We also know that the Bible teaches after we are saved by God's grace through faith, we also need to enter the Sanctification Process and allow the good works of God to flow through our lives (as believers in Jesus Christ); For...

We are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24).

Faith without works is dead (James 2:17).

A person can deny God by a lack of works (Titus 1:16).

Jesus agreed with the lawyer that to love God, and to love your neighbor is a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:25-28).

Those who have done good, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life; and those who have done evil, shall come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (John 5:29).

We have to continue in His goodness, otherwise we can be cut off [just like the Jews were cut off] (Romans 11:21-22).

Helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to inheriting the Kingdom (Matthew 25:34-40), and not helping the poor, and the unfortunate relates to going away into everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:41-46).

Whoever does not righteousness or does not love his brother is not of God (1 John 3:10).

Whoever does what Jesus says is likened unto a wise man who built his house upon the rock, and when a storm came, it did not fall, (Matthew 7:24-25), but the person who does not do what Jesus says is likened unto a fool who built his house upon the sand, and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (Matthew 7:26-27).

Abiding in Jesus will bear much fruit, but if a person does not abide in Jesus [thereby being unfruitful], they are cast out [or cut off] like a branch to be burned in the fire (John 15:5-6).

If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing (1 Peter 4:18-19).

Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14) (NKJV).

Well, no offense, but I don't believe you when you say that your belief leads one "to conform us into Christ likeness." You said before that a believer can abide sin and still be saved. This is turning God's grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4). With this kind of thinking there is no real motivation to live a holy life. One will just sin and still be saved their whole life with this kind of wrong thinking. Many who believe as you do have told me that we can never stop sinning this side of Heaven. So if this is the case, then one is not living holy, or being obedient, or conforming to Christ's likeness if they always abide in sin their whole lives. Sinning less does not mean one is conforming. Meeting the basic bare minimum level requirements for living holy and being perfected in holiness is conforming to the image of Christ's likeness. One cannot justify sin and yet still be saved. There are too many warnings in Scripture against the idea that a believer can sin and still be saved. But of course, you are free to ignore those warnings in your Bible (Although I would strongly advise you against doing such a thing).

I'll show you for the 3rd time how John told us to keep all the commandments of Christ.

John addresses every single commandment of Christ in the following verses and how we keep them.

1John 3:22-24

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

We keep all the commandments by faith in Christ and to love one another.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 20, 2020

Charlie24 said:
I'll show you for the 3rd time how John told us to keep all the commandments of Christ.

John addresses every single commandment of Christ in the following verses and how we keep them.

1John 3:22-24

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

We keep all the commandments by faith in Christ and to love one another.

Verses 23-24 does not say that by believing in the name of Jesus and loving one another is the equivalent of keeping all of Christ's commandments.

If such were the case, the passage would be written like this:

23 "And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And by keeping this one commandment, you fulfill all of Christ's commandments, and you dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us." (1 John 3:22-24 - Sin and Still Be Saved Salvationist Influenced Version of the Bible).

Important Note:
The words in red above passage
are not mentioned in any actual real Bible.

The passage in reality actually says,

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."
(1 John 3:22-24).

What are these verses saying?

Verse 22 refers to how we keep His commandments (Plural), and we do those things (Plural things) that are pleasing in His sight.

Verse 23 starts a new thought. It says that His commandment (singular) is to believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and to love one another, as He gave us commandment (singular). Nothing here is said about how by keeping this singular commandment leads us to automatically fulfilling in keeping all of His commandments.

Verse 24 starts a new thought and says that the person who keeps His commandments (plural commands, and not just the one commandment mentioned in verse 23) dwells in Him. Nowhere does verse 24 say anything about how that by keeping the one commandment in verse 23 it automatically means you are obeying all of Christ's commandments that He gave us.

So you are seeing something in this passage that simply does not exist.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 20, 2020

Charlie24 said:
I'll show you for the 3rd time how John told us to keep all the commandments of Christ.

John addresses every single commandment of Christ in the following verses and how we keep them.

1John 3:22-24

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

We keep all the commandments by faith in Christ and to love one another.

Another problem you run into by your wrong interpretation on 1 John 3:22-24 is that you have to ignore 1 John 3:10, and 1 John 3:15.

1 John 3:10 says, "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

1 John 3:15 says, "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

1 John 3:10 says that we can know the difference between God's children, and the children of the devil by the fact that if anyone does not righteousness is not of God. Okay stop right here. This means that when you said before that a believer can sin and still be saved, they are not doing righteousness in that moment, which means they are technically not a child of God during that time they are in sin, but they are a child of the devil. The same is true if they do not love their brother, too.

1 John 3:15 says that the person who hates his brother is like a murderer, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. This means that if a person hates their brother, they have no eternal life and they are not saved. Pretty simple and easy verse to understand here in what it plainly says. But you are free to distort such a verse if you like. I just would not want to be in your shoes if you were to continue to do so your whole life.

Charlie24 · Mar 20, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
Another problem you run into by your wrong interpretation on 1 John 3:22-24 is that you have to ignore 1 John 3:10, and 1 John 3:15.

1 John 3:10 says, "In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother."

1 John 3:15 says, "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

1 John 3:10 says that we can know the difference between God's children, and the children of the devil by the fact that if anyone does not righteousness is not of God. Okay stop right here. This means that when you said before that a believer can sin and still be saved, they are not doing righteousness in that moment, which means they are technically not a child of God during that time they are in sin, but they are a child of the devil. The same is true if they do not love their brother, too.

1 John 3:15 says that the person who hates his brother is like a murderer, and no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. This means that if a person hates their brother, they have no eternal life and they are not saved. Pretty simple and easy verse to understand here in what it plainly says. But you are free to distort such a verse if you like. I just would not want to be in your shoes if you were to continue to do so your whole life.

It's obvious that you haven't paid one bit of attention to anything I have said.

You believe faith + some works is what will get you there. You said so in the OP.

OK, is it 60% faith and 40% works, or is it 95% faith and 5% works?

No matter what the percentage, faith in Christ was not enough, you had to help Him out with your salvation.

Eph. 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 20, 2020

Charlie24 said:
I'll show you for the 3rd time how John told us to keep all the commandments of Christ.

John addresses every single commandment of Christ in the following verses and how we keep them.

1John 3:22-24

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

We keep all the commandments by faith in Christ and to love one another.

The only three places in Scripture that I can think of off the top of my head whereby if you do one particular command, you fulfill others are these:

#1. Loving your neighbor is the equivalent of keeping the Moral Law.

8 "Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." (Romans 13:8-10).

Loving your neighbor is the equivalent of keeping the Moral Law (i.e. Those laws a person knows on instinct in doing good; This is the Law that the Gentiles were able to keep at times without having the written Law - See: Romans 2:14). The Moral Law are things like: Do not murder, do not steal, do not commit adultery, etc.; When a person turns on the news, they will see reports of murder, theft, and in folks bearing false witness, etc. If we love our neighbor, we are not going to want to steal from them, or kill them, etc.

#2. We fulfill the righteousness of the Old Law (i.e. loving your neighbor) by walking after the Spirit.

"That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." (Romans 8:4).

We do not fulfill the righteousness of the Old Law by following the whole of the Law of Moses. Believers today are not supposed to keep the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or contract (package deal). We can only fulfill the righteous aspect of the Old Law (loving our neighbor) by walking after the Spirit.

But... "if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live." (Romans 8:13). So we need to be putting to death the deeds of the body by the power of the Holy Spirit to have life (eternal life). For to live after the flesh (carnal means of doing things and or being a slave to sin) we will die spiritually. By walking after the fruits of the Spirit (like love, joy, peace, etc.) (Galatians 5:22-23), we will not fulfill the works of the flesh.

"This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh." (Galatians 5:16).

What are the lusts of the flesh or the works of the flesh?

19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21).

Galatians 5:19-21 is a violation of the Moral Law (i.e. the Moral Law: Which is to love your neighbor). So we fulfill the righteous aspect of the Old Law (to love your neighbor) by walking after the Spirit (by abiding in the Spirit and the fruits thereof: Like love, joy, peace, etc. - Galatians 5:22-23).

#3. All of the Old Law can be fulfilled by keeping the 2nd greatest command in loving your neighbor as yourself.

Galatians 5:14 says,
"For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."

The Old Law is no more. The only ways we can fulfill the Old Law is by loving our neighbor and by walking after the Spirit. We cannot literally keep all of the 613 laws of Moses anymore. But I know this kind of thinking is above your paygrade and does not make any sense to you. You see God's grace as a safety net to sin (Which is not what the grace of God teaches us, see: - Titus 2:11-12).

Bible Highlighter · Mar 20, 2020

Charlie24 said:
It's obvious that you haven't paid one bit of attention to anything I have said.

You believe faith + some works is what will get you there. You said so in the OP.

OK, is it 60% faith and 40% works, or is it 95% faith and 5% works?

No matter what the percentage, faith in Christ was not enough, you had to help Him out with your salvation.

Eph. 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

First, I have heard everything you said just fine. Actually you have chosen not to address the majority of my points with Scripture I have made with you. There are tons of posts with Scripture put forth to you now; Most of these posts with Scripture have been explained by you with the Bible (so far).

Second, the "How much works are required?" argument by the Belief Alone Proponent is simply a lack of knowledge (or acceptance) on their part in what God's Word plainly says. In the Parable of the Talents, we learn that the servant who was faithful over a few things is said to enter into the joy of His Lord (See: Matthew 25:21). Yet, the unprofitable servant is cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30).

As for Ephesians 2:8-9:

This is in reference to Initial Salvation. Ephesians 2:1 says that we have been quickened or made alive in Christ. This is a one time event when we are quickened or made alive in Christ and it is the born again experience when we first came to the Lord in seeking forgiveness of our sins with Him by way of prayer. Ephesians 2:8 describes God's grace as a gift. How many times do you receive a gift? Well, I sure hope that your family does not repackage the same gifts every year. In my view, that is not a gift. Gifts are received one time. Ephesians 3:17 says that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith. How many times does that take place? One time. Each of these things are in reference to the call to "Initial Salvation" and it is not in reference to the Sanctification Process (Living holy only by God's power) which takes place after being saved by God's grace.

Verse 9 is in reference to Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism because it is the kind of work that a man would boast in himself in doing.

Verse 10 is in reference to God directed works done through the believer after they are saved by God's grace because these are the kind of works that a believer is created unto Christ Jesus to do since the foundation of the world.

Paul's focus in Ephesians 2:8-9 is on the 1st stage or step in the salvation process because he does not want to confuse his readers. A person needs to first be saved by God's grace through faith in Christ first and build upon that grace and stand upon that grace as the foundation of their salvation and hope. From there, they can then enter the Sanctification Process by the power of God working in them.

Charlie24 · Mar 20, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
First, I have heard everything you said just fine. Actually you have chosen not to address the majority of my points with Scripture I have made with you. There are tons of posts with Scripture put forth to you now; Most of these posts with Scripture have been explained by you with the Bible (so far).

Second, the "How much works are required?" argument by the Belief Alone Proponent is simply a lack of knowledge (or acceptance) on their part in what God's Word plainly says. In the Parable of the Talents, we learn that the servant who was faithful over a few things is said to enter into the joy of His Lord (See: Matthew 25:21). Yet, the unprofitable servant is cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30).

As for Ephesians 2:8-9:

This is in reference to Initial Salvation. Ephesians 2:1 says that we have been quickened or made alive in Christ. This is a one time event when we are quickened or made alive in Christ and it is the born again experience when we first came to the Lord in seeking forgiveness of our sins with Him by way of prayer. Ephesians 2:8 describes God's grace as a gift. How many times do you receive a gift? Well, I sure hope that your family does not repackage the same gifts every year. In my view, that is not a gift. Gifts are received one time. Ephesians 3:17 says that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith. How many times does that take place? One time. Each of these things are in reference to the call to "Initial Salvation" and it is not in reference to the Sanctification Process (Living holy only by God's power) which takes place after being saved by God's grace.

Verse 9 is in reference to Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism because it is the kind of work that a man would boast in himself in doing.

Verse 10 is in reference to God directed works done through the believer after they are saved by God's grace because these are the kind of works that a believer is created unto Christ Jesus to do since the foundation of the world.

Paul's focus in Ephesians 2:8-9 is on the 1st stage or step in the salvation process because he does not want to confuse his readers. A person needs to first be saved by God's grace through faith in Christ first and build upon that grace and stand upon that grace as the foundation of their salvation and hope. From there, they can then enter the Sanctification Process by the power of God working in them.

Finally a post that I can agree on 100%.

You have given God the glory of salvation by "grace through faith" in Christ.

You have given God the glory of sanctification by "the power of God working in them."

Not one time did you mention anything on a list that you need to do. You let the Lord do it all.

You have given God all the glory through your faith in Christ.

This the Lord will honor, you claim no part of it but obedience in faith.

Now the Lord will bring the works that bring forth fruit that James spoke of.

Not that you can be saved, but because you are saved.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 20, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Finally a post that I can agree on 100%.

You have given God the glory of salvation by "grace through faith" in Christ.

You have given God the glory of sanctification by "the power of God working in them."

Not one time did you mention anything on a list that you need to do. You let the Lord do it all.

You have given God all the glory through your faith in Christ.

This the Lord will honor, you claim no part of it but obedience in faith.

Now the Lord will bring the works that bring forth fruit that James spoke of.

Not that you can be saved, but because you are saved.

It's synergistic. We have to cooperate with God and His plan of salvation.

"Can two walk together, except they be agreed?" (Amos 3:3).

Dorothy Mae · Mar 20, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
*Sigh*

I didn't say the Beatitudes were rules. I said that it is a list that Jesus made because you said before how believers did not make lists in Scripture.

It really isn’t a list. Seeing it is just a list is a sterile way to view it.

Yet, Jesus Himself made lists. That was my point. Oh, and yes. While the Beatitudes are not exactly rules or commands, the two greatest commandments are rules and it is a list (albeit a short list).

I’m pretty sure he’d not agree he was giving men lists. A list by definition is an unemotional categorizing of items of equal weight. It is minus love or caring.

You said my list is a lot longer than the greatest two commands. But again, I did not invent the list of my own imagining.

Yes you did.

The list is purely taken from Scripture.

No, some items are man theology not found in the thinking of those who wrote the Bible.

I am not claiming that the numbering of my list is authoritative by any means.

You claim it’s scripture but not authoritative. So scripture is not authoritative?

It's not the numbers that are authoritative, but the content itself (Which is derived from Scripture). I only created the content of the information in list form because it helps readers to identify the content better.

Pretty much looks like exhausting rules, sans relationship.

I see the Rapture as a form of rebuke or chastening upon the majority of Christians today who justify sin and or who have disdain for God's commands.

How do you make that connection???

Please take note that I believe one needs to first be saved by God's grace before they can obey God's commands in the New Testament or before they can enter the Sanctification Process by the Spirit in living holy. Those Christians who are left behind who were warned will know that they shouldn't have justified sin, and they will have a second chance to partake of the Mid Trib Gathering up by angels (as mentioned in the Olivet Discourse). If they are still thick headed spiritually, they will have to be willing to be martyred for the Antichrist and refusing to take the Mark.

Except this will not happen as you believe. No writer of the Bible has heard of the rapture either.

Not accepting Original Sin is not only rejecting what the Bible says, but it can lead to the wrong idea that man is basically good (Which is not the case).

The Bible doesn’t teach this and that’s a straw man argument, doesn’t lead to that AT ALL.

This means that if man is not born with a problem to solve, then they really do not need a Savior. So while not accepting Original Sin may not be a salvation issue initially, it can lead to eventual wrong thinking that can be a salvation issue later down the road. Error can spread like a cancer and lead to more wrongful thinking. Granted, this may not always be the case.

It actually leads to taking responsibility for your own sin instead of blaming Adam. I’ve heard real Christians excuse their sin by saying it’s wasn’t them, just their sin nature. They didn’t feel the need to repent or ask forgiveness. Was Adams fault, not theirs. This is very common.

Bible Highlighter · Mar 20, 2020

Dorothy Mae said:
It really isn’t a list. Seeing it is just a list is a sterile way to view it.

What do you consider a list to be then?
Do all lists have to have numbers?
Is it just a format layout?
Or can a list be seen by the repetitive nature of certains words?
For example: If you looked up a list of movies before, they do not always have to be numbered to be considered as a part of a list. They are grouped together. This can constitute a list.

Dictionary.com says,

"a series of names or other items written or printed together in a meaningful grouping or sequence so as to constitute a record:"

Seeing Jesus repeated the words "Blessed are they..." several times repeatedly, this constitutes as a list. Also, can I make a shopping list with only two items on my shopping list? Yep, you betcha. Again, the two greatest commandments are actually a list of two. They are the greatest two. This is also a list. If you do not get it after this, I cannot help you. The Bible has a long lists of genealogies. To say that this is not a list is simply to not understand what a list actually is. So if you believe all Scripture is inspired by God, and genealogies are a part of Scripture, then God is into list making.

I’m pretty sure he’d not agree he was giving men lists. A list by definition is an unemotional categorizing of items of equal weight. It is minus love or caring.
Yes you did.
No, some items are man theology not found in the thinking of those who wrote the Bible.
You claim it’s scripture but not authoritative. So scripture is not authoritative?
Pretty much looks like exhausting rules, sans relationship.
How do you make that connection???
Except this will not happen as you believe. No writer of the Bible has heard of the rapture either.
The Bible doesn’t teach this and that’s a straw man argument, doesn’t lead to that AT ALL.

It actually leads to taking responsibility for your own sin instead of blaming Adam. I’ve heard real Christians excuse their sin by saying it’s wasn’t them, just their sin nature. They didn’t feel the need to repent or ask forgiveness. Was Adams fault, not theirs. This is very common.

While I don't mind side tracking the discussion to talk about Soteriology (Which I believe is always important to discuss), this thread is not about endlessly going back and forth on the other finer points of each of the things I listed. This thread is about answering the question, "What are the BIG things in the Bible we must accept as Christians?" If you believe there are none, then say so, and then please state your reasons with Scripture. If you believe there are some, then please state those few things and state your reasons with Scripture.

Dorothy Mae · Mar 20, 2020

Bible Highlighter said:
What do you consider a list to be then?

Things you need to do or buy. "I will give you a list" places all items of equal value. But if you insist, Jesus never gave us a list of things we had to believe. He even called commandments, "commandments" not "a list." That is not how he looked at it.

all lists have to have numbers?
Is it just a format layout?

You made us a list and try to support that by saying Jesus too gave lists. He never gave a list of things we had to believe. He actually said many things we need to do but not as a list one can tick off. It does not work that way. A wife doesn't give her husband a list of things he needs to be and do to keep the marriage. That is what you are doing, saying a relationship is maintainede by believing or doing a list. It deletes the relationship.

For example: If you looked up a list of movies before, they do not always have to be numbered to be considered as a part of a list. They are grouped together. This can constitute a list.

The problem is we are to walk humbly with our God loving him and others. This is the only thing you can call a list if you insist. Love God with all our being and love others as you love yourself. This is relationship, not a list that one can tick off that one has finished. You reduce it to items on can tick off without any relationship at all, which is the main thing. And even making a list, kind of kills the love.

Dictionary.com says,

"a series of names or other items written or printed together in a meaningful grouping or sequence so as to constitute a record:"

So loving God and man has been reduced to merely an item. That is the problem with your listing Christianity. Just a list of items...

Seeing Jesus repeated the words "Blessed are they..." several times repeatedly, this constitutes as a list. Also, can I make a shopping list with only two items on my shopping list? Yep, you betcha. Again, the two greatest commandments are actually a list of two. They are the greatest two. This is also a list. If you do not get it after this, I cannot help you. The Bible has a long lists of genealogies. To say that this is not a list is simply to not understand what a list actually is. So if you believe all Scripture is inspired by God, and genealogies are a part of Scripture, then God is into list making.

That you make the beattitudes equal to the begats tells me you do not understand what it is to have relationship with God and you want to be right. Do you make a list for friends and family to live by so you and they can have a good relationship?

While I don't mind side tracking the discussion to talk about Soteriology (Which I believe is always important to discuss), this thread is not about endlessly going back and forth on the other finer points of each of the things I listed. This thread is about answering the question, "What are the BIG things in the Bible we must accept as Christians?" If you believe there are none, then say so, and then please state your reasons with Scripture. If you believe there are some, then please state those few things and state your reasons with Scripture.

What must accept that we need to love God with all our being and love our neighbor as ourselves. That is it. God, by the way, determines if a person is doing this. This means we need to be in communication with Him all along the way. Now, do you need scripture for that position or do you accept it KNOWING it reflects accuratly scripture without being a list of to dos?

Bible Highlighter · Mar 21, 2020

Dorothy Mae said:
Things you need to do or buy. "I will give you a list" places all items of equal value. But if you insist, Jesus never gave us a list of things we had to believe. He even called commandments, "commandments" not "a list." That is not how he looked at it.
You made us a list and try to support that by saying Jesus too gave lists. He never gave a list of things we had to believe. He actually said many things we need to do but not as a list one can tick off. It does not work that way. A wife doesn't give her husband a list of things he needs to be and do to keep the marriage. That is what you are doing, saying a relationship is maintainede by believing or doing a list. It deletes the relationship.
The problem is we are to walk humbly with our God loving him and others. This is the only thing you can call a list if you insist. Love God with all our being and love others as you love yourself. This is relationship, not a list that one can tick off that one has finished. You reduce it to items on can tick off without any relationship at all, which is the main thing. And even making a list, kind of kills the love. So loving God and man has been reduced to merely an item. That is the problem with your listing Christianity. Just a list of items...That you make the beattitudes equal to the begats tells me you do not understand what it is to have relationship with God and you want to be right. Do you make a list for friends and family to live by so you and they can have a good relationship?
What must accept that we need to love God with all our being and love our neighbor as ourselves. That is it. God, by the way, determines if a person is doing this. This means we need to be in communication with Him all along the way. Now, do you need scripture for that position or do you accept it KNOWING it reflects accuratly scripture without being a list of to dos?

Anyone who has ever made a "To Do List" knows that they are trying to set things in order. Anytime somebody made registry of names on a book is setting in order those people. For surely, if names were written on a piece of paper and hidden throughout the United States, it would not neatly set in order the names of those who attended. Anytime we made a list of anything in life, we are trying to create order out of chaos. This is why lists are about setting things into order. It can be about grouping things together based on a pattern or be numbering or counting of certain things.

"Behold, this have I found, saith the preacher, counting one by one, to find out the account:" (Ecclesiastes 7:27).

"As the LORD commanded Moses, so he numbered them in the wilderness of Sinai." (Numbers 1:19).

"But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered." (Luke 12:7).

"But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying,"

"Doth not he see my ways, and count all my steps?" (Job 31:4).

"And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs." (Ecclesiastes 12:9).

"For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:" (Isaiah 28:10).

"Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me." (Psalms 119:133).

"Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us," (Luke 1:1).

"It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus," (Luke 1:3).

"So I do not run like one who runs aimlessly or box like one beating the air." (1 Corinthians 9:26) (CSB).

"That which is crooked cannot be made straight: and that which is wanting cannot be numbered." (Ecclesiastes 1:15).

"Let all things be done decently and in order." (1 Corinthians 14:40).

If something is set out of order it is chaos and confusion. However...

"...God is not the author of confusion,..." (1 Corinthians 14:33).

Many today in the church do not want order, but they want their own chaotic ways. They will at times reject basic knowledge to promote disorder or their own path or ways over the order of God. This is one of the reasons why God says,

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge...." (Hosea 4:6).

I say this all in love and with the hope that you may see where I am coming from. If not, then by all means...
carry on as you were and God will set things in order in their due time.

Anyways, peace, and love to you today in the Lord
(Even if we disagree strongly on Scripture).

What are the BIG things in the Bible we must accept as Christians? (Please no debating or criticism)

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Newbie

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Newbie

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Newbie

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Newbie

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Newbie

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Well-Known Member

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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