LDS How many negative charges has been made about JS character in LDS History? Just, curious.

He is the way said:

You said: "So you saying I do not do any kind of good works? Especially those I am led by Christ to do?"

That is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that the scriptures I quoted should be the main doctrine of every church, and if it isn't then that church is NOT teaching correct principals.

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Now you are telling us how we should arrange our doctrines? That the Mormons Church has the right formula for their doctrines?

You some kind of expert of what and what not is to be taught?

These "works" come forth when you find the True Christ. And no,you personally do not get to gauge your own works and whether you did enough good works. But you realize the Love of Christ and His Grace He affords us

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

Try to understand the difference between grace and works.

Albion said:

Probably so, but the comment that I replied to was about JS himself, not any church.

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I know that there were plenty of people who had a very skeptical view of Joseph Smith. My great great grandfather was very upset when he found out that his father had joined the church. It was really looked down upon in those days.

Jamesone5 said:

Now you are telling us how we should arrange our doctrines? That the Mormons Church has the right formula for their doctrines?

You some kind of expert of what and what not is to be taught?

These "works" come forth when you find the True Christ. And no,you personally do not get to gauge your own works and whether you did enough good works. But you realize the Love of Christ and His Grace He affords us

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

Try to understand the difference between grace and works.

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As a mater of fact I am an expert on Christ's teachings and His LOVE of the commandments. There are people who do LOVE Jesus Christ and His commandments of LOVE because they are His sheep. They don't have dead faith and they are known by their fruits.

He is the way said:

As a mater of fact I am an expert on Christ's teachings and His LOVE of the commandments. There are people who do LOVE Jesus Christ and His commandments of LOVE because they are His sheep. They don't have dead faith and they are known by their fruits.

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Your are tooting your own horn here:
"I am an expert"

Did not get beyond that statement.

Jamesone5 said:

Your are tooting your own horn here:
"I am an expert"

Did not get beyond that statement.

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Keeping the commandments is the LOVE of Christ:

(New Testament | John 14:15)

15 ¶ If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And are you? Seems Christ told us He is the only Way to the Father.

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me

But here we have Mormons who tells us that Josephs Smith is part of the way. Heck, even Bruce McConkie said in his book,Mormon Doctrine that JS is a gatekeeper of sorts to the kingdom of heaven.

What did you say about keeping His Commandments?

Jamesone5 said:

And are you? Seems Christ told us He is the only Way to the Father.

John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me

But here we have Mormons who tells us that Josephs Smith is part of the way. Heck, even Bruce McConkie said in his book,Mormon Doctrine that JS is a gatekeeper of sorts to the kingdom of heaven.

What did you say about keeping His Commandments?

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What happens to those who turn away from the commandments given to them?

(New Testament | 2 Peter 2:20 - 22)

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

He is the way said:

What happens to those who turn away from the commandments given to them?

(New Testament | 2 Peter 2:20 - 22)

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

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I have read those verses and understand them and certainly take them into admonishment. Why would I need your false prophet to tell me how to do it the right way?

Jamesone5 said:

I have read those verses and understand them and certainly take them into admonishment. Why would I need your false prophet to tell me how to do it the right way?

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You are entitled to believe whatever you want to believe. God has given us that agency. He has also given us His words through the prophets. However many refused to listen to the prophets and many of the prophets were killed for teaching God's words. When God sent His Son they killed Him too. It seems to me that too many of God's children reject His commandments and refuse to listen to His words given through His prophets. It is sad to see people reject the gospel of LOVE.

He is the way said:

You are entitled to believe whatever you want to believe. God has given us that agency. He has also given us His words through the prophets. However many refused to listen to the prophets and many of the prophets were killed for teaching God's words. When God sent His Son they killed Him too. It seems to me that too many of God's children reject His commandments and refuse to listen to His words given through His prophets. It is sad to see people reject the gospel of LOVE.

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I do read and believe the prophets who wrote Holy scripture. That is the OT of the Bible--the words of the prophets. A "johnny come-lately" that merely says he is a prophet--there is a lot of testing of which I have done and found him to be a false prophet.

Jamesone5 said:

I do read and believe the prophets who wrote Holy scripture. That is the OT of the Bible--the words of the prophets. A "johnny come-lately" that merely says he is a prophet--there is a lot of testing of which I have done and found him to be a false prophet.

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I found Joseph Smith to be a prophet of God.

He is the way said:

I found Joseph Smith to be a prophet of God.

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I found him not to be a prophet of God.

Regarding Joseph Smith:

All men may well ask themselves where they stand with reference to Joseph Smith and his divine mission. Do they inquire after his name and seek that salvation found only in the gospel of Christ as revealed to His latter-day prophet … ? The great question which all men in our day must answer—and that at the peril of their own salvation—is: Was Joseph Smith called of God? …

… Let there be no misunderstanding. We are witnesses of Christ. He is our Savior. … But we are also witnesses of Joseph Smith, by whom we know of Christ, and who is the legal administrator to whom power was given to bind on earth and seal in heaven, that all men from his day forward might be heirs of salvation.
By Elder Bruce R. McConkie (1915–85) Of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles,
From “Joseph Smith—The Mighty Prophet of the Restoration,” Ensign, May 1976, 94–96.
Knowing Christ through Joseph Smith

He is the way said:

You are entitled to believe whatever you want to believe. God has given us that agency. He has also given us His words through the prophets. However many refused to listen to the prophets and many of the prophets were killed for teaching God's words. When God sent His Son they killed Him too. It seems to me that too many of God's children reject His commandments and refuse to listen to His words given through His prophets. It is sad to see people reject the gospel of LOVE.

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Joseph Smith did just that!

Galatians 1
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Phoebe Ann said:

God taught through the Bible:"If ye love me, keep my commandments."Joseph Smith and his followers taught otherwise.

Doctrine and Covenants 121
16 Cursed are all those that shall lift up the heel against mine anointed, saith the Lord, and cry they have sinned when they have not sinned before me, saith the Lord, but have done that which was meet in mine eyes, and which I commanded them.

17 But those who cry transgression do it because they are the servants of sin, and are the children of disobedience themselves.

18 And those who swear falsely against my servants, that they might bring them into bondage and death—

19 Wo unto them; because they have offended my little ones they shall be severed from the ordinances of mine house.

20 Their basket shall not be full, their houses and their barns shall perish, and they themselves shall be despised by those that flattered them.

21 They shall not have right to the priesthood, nor their posterity after them from generation to generation.

22 It had been better for them that a millstone had been hanged about their necks, and they drowned in the depth of the sea.

23 Wo unto all those that discomfort my people, and drive, and murder, and testify against them, saith the Lord of Hosts; a generation of vipers shall not escape the damnation of hell.

24 Behold, mine eyes see and know all their works, and I have in reserve a swift judgment in the season thereof, for them all;

25 For there is a time appointed for every man, according as his works shall be.


Thelma Geer wrote:
"As a white Mormon, I proudly accepted the teaching that my fair skin and Mormon parentage signified that I had been one of God's most intelligent and obedient born-in-heaven spirit children. there in my primeval childhood I had diligently applied myself to all the mandates and instructions of the Heavenly Father and my own heavenly mother.

"As a reward for my superior attributes, I had been singled out, trained and qualified to be born a white Latter-day Saint, deserving of emulation, adulation and eventual deification. All dark-skinned people, even darker-complexioned Caucasians, and members of all other relgions had been inferior spirits in heaven. (Our family still wonders what celestial mischief on of our favorite Aunties got caught in to cause her to be born so dark.) Moreover, they would probably remain inferiors on earth and again in the resurrection. Superior intelligent spirits such as mine would naturally and inherently be choose to be born white and delightsome Latter-day Saints, while the more ignorant, ignoble spirits neither earn nor know better than to be born into inferior false religions. As a white Mormon, I heartily endorsed these teachings of our Latter-day Saints' authorities, espeially those Mormon prophet/presidents and apostles such as Apostle Melvin J. Ballard, who declared that:...."
Thema Geer, Mormonism, Mama, & Me!, p.2-3

I omitted Ballard's racist comments.

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How is condemning sinners for their sins teach anything but to keep the commandments? As for your quote from Thelma's book, here is a review:

"Found this used. I had a bit of a hard time with the writing style of the book, and so many of the misrepresented ideas in it. I know several LDS people (as they prefer to be called) very well, and this book does not sound like them. They are most definitely Christian, and more so than some others I have met. I just didn't like the style or the false/ exaggerated info in the book."

From: Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Mormonism, Mama & Me

Phoebe Ann said:

Joseph Smith did just that!

Galatians 1
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

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Joseph Smith did what God asked him to do.

He is the way said:

I found Joseph Smith to be a prophet of God.

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A prophet of God that you know or THE God that I know?

Jamesone5 said:

A prophet of God that you know or THE God that I know?

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Joseph Smith did not claim to be God, however Jesus did say:

(New Testament | John 10:34 - 35)

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

He is the way said:

Joseph Smith did not claim to be God, however Jesus did say:

(New Testament | John 10:34 - 35)

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

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No he claimed to be a Prophet of God and you, in you testimony, claim to know that he is.

The verses you quoted are paralleled in Psalm 82. You are referring to are judges who were hardly Gods as they would "die like men"

What? you have it been paying attention? This argument has already been made numerous times and answered.