Thrown into a pit, for what? Truly, the Devil has begun to drive a wedge between the concepts of Men

mmksparbud

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The world is not destroyed during or before the thousand years. Remember all those people at the end of the thousand years that Satan goes to deceive? They couldn't have lived if the world was destroyed.

Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Remember that there is a camp of the saints where the saints lived during the thousand years?

Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

That's a lot of people you say don't exist on the Earth.

And what do you think this is? A tropical rainforest?

2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
 
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ewq1938

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That doesn't happen at the second coming. The issue with your interpretation is the scriptures have many people on the Earth during and after the thousand years. That means the Earth is not empty of people at any point since the creation of mankind.


And what do you think this is? A tropical rainforest?

2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
 
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mmksparbud

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That doesn't happen at the second coming. The issue with your interpretation is the scriptures have many people on the Earth during and after the thousand years. That means the Earth is not empty of people at any point since the creation of mankind.

2Pe_3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe_3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

The Day of the Lord, the coming of God---it is at the 2nd coming---at the resurrection. Which is the first resurrection and it is only for the saved.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

This is the day of the Lord and the saved are taken to be with Him for a 1000 years---the living wicked die at that coming (their first death) and the rest of the dead all remain dead until after the 1000 years. That is what it says.

How about we agree to disagree----we are both going to be just repeating and repeating. We will both be finding out what happens very soon.
 
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ewq1938

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How about we agree to disagree----we are both going to be just repeating and repeating.

I was hoping you could explain why there are tons of mortals during and after the thousand years and why an army would want to attack an empty Jerusalem and why there is a camp of the saints there if no saints lived in the camp. All of these point to a world full of people and not empty like you say. Even Revelation 2, 5 and 19-20 speaks of a rule with a rod of iron over unsaved nations. How can all this be wrong and the Earth be empty?
 
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mmksparbud

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I was hoping you could explain why there are tons of mortals during and after the thousand years and why an army would want to attack an empty Jerusalem and why there is a camp of the saints there if no saints lived in the camp. All of these point to a world full of people and not empty like you say. Even Revelation 2, 5 and 19-20 speaks of a rule with a rod of iron over unsaved nations. How can all this be wrong and the Earth be empty?

How can there be tons of people after Jesus comes when He takes the saved with Him, the living wicked are dead and the rest of the dead remain dead until the 1000 years and the earth is destroyed until it is remade after the 1000.
The wicked dead are all over the world---everywhere, more wicked than saved. When they are resurrected they come up where they laid---from everywhere and Satan gathers them together. Until the wicked are resurrected---there is no one on this earth.

Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Jer 4:24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
Jer 4:25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
Jer 4:26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Jer 4:27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.
Jer 4:28 For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
 
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ewq1938

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How can there be tons of people after Jesus comes when He takes the saved with Him, the living wicked are dead and the rest of the dead remain dead until the 1000 years and the earth is destroyed until it is remade after the 1000.

Because none of that is biblical. Jesus comes here with all the saints, not take them away. There are many unsaved peoples of the nations which are ruled over during the thousand years. They are alive and cared for according to the Greek word "rule". When released Satan will go to these people and deceive them.



The wicked dead are all over the world---everywhere, more wicked than saved. When they are resurrected they come up where they laid---from everywhere and Satan gathers them together. Until the wicked are resurrected---there is no one on this earth.


Scripture says otherwise. There are so many of these unsaved peoples that they are as the sands of the sea and this is before the resurrection of the unsaved.



Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth
, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

All of the above scriptures are before the resurrection of the unsaved.




Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

The unsaved are resurrected at the timeframe of verse 12. These are the "rest of the dead lived not again" group of the dead not resurrected in the first resurrection.
 
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mmksparbud

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Because none of that is biblical. Jesus comes here with all the saints, not take them away. There are many unsaved peoples of the nations which are ruled over during the thousand years. They are alive and cared for according to the Greek word "rule". When released Satan will go to these people and deceive them.

That's strange---it came from the bible---Jesus comes here with all the angels to take us to heaven. There is silence in heaven for the space of 1/2 an hour. It's silent because all the angels, everyone including the saints that were taken there---like Moses, Elijah, Enoch and possibly some of those that were resurrected when Jesus was resurrected, everyone comes to see Jesus the triumphant Lord pick up His children.

Mat_25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Rev_8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

The 7th seal is the very last one. I have given you the scriptures time after time for all I've said. You do not want to admit to what they say. When it says the earth is destroyed at His coming and I give you the verse---you say the earth is not destroyed---obviously we are not reading the same book so this discussion has nowhere to go.

I gave you the scriptures we are with Jesus after the resurrection, we are taken up to be with Him, you refuse to acknowledge that is what it says. I've given the scripturas that depict this void and barren land where there is no man and not even a bird and you refuse to acknowledge it and then say it is not biblical! Sorry---but we are not on the same book at all.
 
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Dan1988

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i believe i hae faith and talk to jesus quite abit but my ocd makes me emotionless so i cant feel sincere for sinning but i hope i atleast cn get to heaven
I wouldn't worry about emotions, they have nothing to do with salvation. As long as you trust in Christ, for the forgiveness of your sins you will inherit the Kingdom of God.
 
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Dan1988

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Of course it's symbolic---animals represent kingdoms, water represent people. Earth--places with few people---days=years unless it says years. Horns are kings or an authority, candlesticks=churches---women, good or bad=churches, virgins devout people of God (people who have been forgiven by Jesus)the bible also tells you what the symbols are. Unfortunately, people will come up with their own meanings instead of what the bible says they are. Revelation and Daniel need to be taken together. In fact a lot of the NT is quotes from the OT.
It's quite normal for everyone to change their view on many scriptures as they go through life. Our local Church is filled with people who came from other religions and various Christian denominations.
We can't make anyone agree with our own personal views, each individual has their own particular view of those scriptures which were not written in plain language.
Our pastor encourages us to agree to disagree, on the non essential scriptures such as dietary laws, the millennium, alcohol, eschatology and much of the OT and the book of revelation of'course.
He said the main thing is that we believe the Gospel, because it was written in plain language so there's no room for debate.
 
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Dan1988

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If Satan was bound tossed in the bottomless pit.. WHO is tempting you? What.. all the demons or fallen angels? And wheres Christ? I missed that sheep and the goats. I really missed when Christ came with ALL His angels and set foot on the earth. No where does it say anyone is with Christ for 1000y in heaven.

So again.. all GOOD things come from God. So where are all these LIES and SINS and gay and abortion and murders on and on coming from? Man? Satan as Christ said is the god of this world. The demon said to Christ have you come to torment us before our time? A that TIME is not over yet.

The simple fact again is.. the one murderer from the start was Satan. If you take Satan out of the picture.. who is sinning then? We find after the 1000y what happens that WAS NOT happening? After Satan is loosed THEN and only THEN do the nations go after Christ. Yet.. the WORLD now is not for Christ. Christ is not ruling. If anyone can go murder or abortion or sin. Christ is not ruling. When He does.. none of that will be happening. As I see and understand.

The Church is still here. And the END of which were talking has not happen YET. Why? Because the word is NOT in every nation ...yet. 99% I believe.
Christ returns to judge the world after the millenium, Satan is currently bound (restricted) He can still influence people but his influence is limited by God.
If Satan was let lose, then all hell would break lose upon the world. That will happen, when the pit is open and the Demons come out of the abyss to torment those who don't have the seal of God for 5 months.
Those damned people will try to kill themselves because of the horrific pain they're suffering at the hands of these super evil Demons, but they won't be able to die. They must suffer 24/7 for 5 months, that's the way God ordained it.
We can't blame Satan for anything, we're all quite capable of committing the most heinous acts of evil without any help from Satan. We were all born with a sin nature, so we will naturally gravitate toward murdering our children and sacrificing them to Demons.
We have murdered hundreds of millions of our own children, some while they're in the womb and some while they're around 10 as one famous football player did to 3 of his children in Australia a few weeks ago.
Sin is sin, it doesn't matter if it's Hitler's sin or a respectable priest's, God is no respecter of men.
 
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ewq1938

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Christ returns to judge the world after the millenium, Satan is currently bound (restricted) He can still influence people but his influence is limited by God.

In Revelation 20 Satan isn't "restricted" he is fully incapacitated and imprisoned and he cannot in the slightest way influence anyone while there.


If Satan was let lose, then all hell would break lose upon the world. That will happen, when the pit is open and the Demons come out of the abyss to torment those who don't have the seal of God for 5 months.

Satan isn't in the pit now and won't be until after Christ returns. He is free now and all hell is breaking loose right now and has been a long time. This world is fully evil because Satan is the ruler of this world.


Those damned people will try to kill themselves because of the horrific pain they're suffering at the hands of these super evil Demons, but they won't be able to die. They must suffer 24/7 for 5 months, that's the way God ordained it.
We can't blame Satan for anything, we're all quite capable of committing the most heinous acts of evil without any help from Satan.

But you just spoke of Satan being freed and all hell breaking loose. Satan does affect people and the world and makes them do evil things just as he does to his people at Armageddon and the battle of Jerusalem where they attempt to fight against God and immortal beings which is suicide yet he deceives people into this anyways.



We were all born with a sin nature, so we will naturally gravitate toward murdering our children and sacrificing them to Demons.

No, that is not a natural result of sin nature. That is direct influence from Satan.
 
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Dan1988

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Satan was the first one of God's creatures to sin. His sin may have started out as a small thing but the nature of sin is, that it continues to progress and the sinner grows more wicked everyday.
People like Hitler didn't become evil overnight, the longer we remain unrepentant the harder our hearts get. So we just don't know what we will evolve into.
I'm a member of a Reformed Church where we hold to the Amillennium eschatological view. We believe that the "millennium" mentioned in the book of revelation, is a symbolic reference to a long period time.
All of the signs concerning that prophecy are apparent in our age. We can see the gospel going into every tribe and tongue, we can see that evil is restricted and the rule of law prevails.
Believers have peace and prosperity, I know the unbelievers are waxing worse all the time and they are doing things that previous generations never did but that has no effect on our eternal security in Christ.
We can see God's Kingdom expanding faster than at any other time in history, and there's nothing Satan can do to slow it down. The harder He tries to stop it, the faster it grows.
Christ is currently reigning in the lives of all believers, and nothing can threaten us. We already have eternal life and Satan has no power to change that fact at all.
Satan is the king of the kingdom of darkness, so He can only deceive and possess the reprobate with God's permission. But He has no power over believers.
 
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parousia70

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There is silence in heaven for the space of 1/2 an hour.
How long is half an hour in heaven do you reckon?
50 years? 100 years? 200 ? more?

If Shortly, at hand, the last hour, about to take place, in a very little while, without delay, near, at the doors, quickly and soon in heaven are now 2000 years and counting... 1/2 an hour in heaven has to be at least a few hundred earth years, no?
 
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mmksparbud

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How long is half an hour in heaven do you reckon?
50 years? 100 years? 200 ? more?

If Shortly, at hand, the last hour, about to take place, in a very little while, without delay, near, at the doors, quickly and soon in heaven are now 2000 years and counting... 1/2 an hour in heaven has to be at least a few hundred earth years, no?


About 7 days. Taking a day(24 hrs). = 1 year. In prophecy---1 day is a year. If it says years, then it's years. A prophetic month is 30 days.

Rev_8:1 And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.

Num_14:34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.
Eze_4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

There is silence in heaven for 1/2 hr. because no one is there---

Mat_25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Long way around:

24 hours=one year, 12 hours=6 mths, 6 hours=3 mths, 3 hours= 1 1/2 mths, 1 1/2 hours= 22 days, 30 min= 7 days ( 1/3 of 1 1/2 hours= 30 min. 1/3 of 22 is 7.3 days)
1 1/2 mths = 30+14=44 days,
one month = 30 days
1 1/2 mths= 30+14=22 days
30 min = 7 days
 
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ewq1938

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There is silence in heaven for 1/2 hr. because no one is there---


Heaven can also be silent with many there who choose to be silent. This feels like when there is a period of silence to honor something that has happened.

You have spoken about the Earth being empty and without anyone (except Satan in the pit) but now heaven is empty? When is heaven empty in the timeline of events compared to the time you think Earth is empty at the 7th trump/rapture.
 
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mmksparbud

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Heaven can also be silent with many there who choose to be silent. This feels like when there is a period of silence to honor something that has happened.

You have spoken about the Earth being empty and without anyone (except Satan in the pit) but now heaven is empty? When is heaven empty in the timeline of events compared to the time you think Earth is empty at the 7th trump/rapture.

The bible says heaven is silent for the space of half an hour not me. All of heaven has come with Jesus to pick us up. 7.3 days, round trip.
 
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ewq1938

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The bible says heaven is silent for the space of half an hour not me.

I know but that doesn't address anything in my post. I'll post it all again just in case it will be addressed:

Heaven can also be silent with many there who choose to be silent. This feels like when there is a period of silence to honor something that has happened.

You have spoken about the Earth being empty and without anyone (except Satan in the pit) but now heaven is empty? When is heaven empty in the timeline of events compared to the time you think Earth is empty at the 7th trump/rapture.
 
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parousia70

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Taking a day(24 hrs). = 1 year. In prophecy---1 day is a year.

Doesn't 1 Day = 1000 years?
2 Peter 3:8

But assuming you are correct, when God gave the following Prophesy to Noah:

"For after seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and I will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made.” (Genesis 7:4)

He actually Meant:
For after seven more (years) I will cause it to rain on the earth forty (years), and I will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made.”

Do I have that right?
 
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mmksparbud

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Doesn't 1 Day = 1000 years?
2 Peter 3:8

But assuming you are correct, when God gave the following Prophesy to Noah:

"For after seven more days I will cause it to rain on the earth forty days and forty nights, and I will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made.” (Genesis 7:4)

He actually Meant:
For after seven more (years) I will cause it to rain on the earth forty (years), and I will destroy from the face of the earth all living things that I have made.”

Do I have that right?


No, this was not prophetic as in the far future---this was a here and now happening.
 
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