Middle of 70th week in Daniel 9:27 same event described in Daniel 11:31?

Charlie24 said:

No, I'm afraid not!

If you notice in 8:16-19, Gabriel says he will make the vision known to Daniel.

vs. 21, the rough goat of vs 21 is the he goat of vs. 8, Alexander the Great, king of Grecia.

vs. 22, the 4 kingdoms of vs. 22 are the 4 notable ones of vs. 8, ATG's generals.

vs.23, in the LATTER TIMES of their kingdoms, speaking of the 4 kingdoms of the generals they received from ATG. A king of fierce countenance will stand up, the antichrist of vs. 9.

vs. 25, we know it's the antichrist because "he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes," in the battle of Armageddon. Christ Himself.

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No, I am afraid not. At the end of the Greek kingdoms, Cleopatra, the last of the Ptolemies, Herod arose to rule Judah and stood against the Prince of Princes, and tried to kill the infant King. Same as in Daniel 11:36 etc

David Kent said:

No, I am afraid not. At the end of the Greek kingdoms, Cleopatra, the last of the Ptolemies, Herod arose to rule Judah and stood against the Prince of Princes, and tried to kill the infant King. Same as in Daniel 11:36 etc

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You have got to be kidding me! This is a joke, right?

"vs.23, in the LATTER TIMES of their kingdoms, speaking of the 4 kingdoms of the generals they received from ATG. A king of fierce countenance will stand up, the antichrist of vs. 9."

Antichrist did not arise in the latter times of the Greek Kingdoms, but Herod did, a king of fierce countenance who tried to destroy God's anointed.

Cleopatra was the last of the Greek kings, descended from the 4 generals.

David Kent said:

"vs.23, in the LATTER TIMES of their kingdoms, speaking of the 4 kingdoms of the generals they received from ATG. A king of fierce countenance will stand up, the antichrist of vs. 9."

Antichrist did not arise in the latter times of the Greek Kingdoms, but Herod did, a king of fierce countenance who tried to destroy God's anointed.

Cleopatra was the last of the Greek kings, descended from the 4 generals.

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They were Greek kingdoms then but not now, and the future antichrist will rise from one of these past kingdoms.

In fact, I believe there is enough evidence in scripture to safely say that the antichrist will be a Syrian Jew.

Charlie24 said:

They were Greek kingdoms then but not now, and the future antichrist will rise from one of these past kingdoms.

In fact, I believe there is enough evidence in scripture to safely say that the antichrist will be a Syrian Jew.

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Well I disagree with you. The Early Church Writers got it right, they understood the prophecy, Antichrist would come out of the Roman Empire, or the 10 Gothic kingdoms that replaced the empire. Daniel 7:7-8 Daniel 7:19-21

David Kent said:

Well I disagree with you. The Early Church Writers got it right, they understood the prophecy, Antichrist would come out of the Roman Empire, or the 10 Gothic kingdoms that replaced the empire.

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Was the land we know as Syria today in the Roman Empire?

Charlie24 said:

Was the land we know as Syria today in the Roman Empire?

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The ECW understood that AC would be a Roman, but some also thought that he would in some way would be a Jew.

David Kent said:

The ECW understood that AC would be a Roman, but some also thought that he would in some way would be a Jew.

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I think it possible the antichrist could not be a Jew, but not likely.

Matthew 24 is addressed to the Jews, what will befall them in the last days.

The first thing Jesus said, "take heed that no man deceive you."

The Jews do not believe Jesus is the Messiah, but they are not stupid.

It will take a Jew to deceive them for the prophesies to be fulfilled.

Charlie24 said:

I think it possible the antichrist could not be a Jew, but not likely.

Matthew 24 is addressed to the Jews, what will befall them in the last days.

The first thing Jesus said, "take heed that no man deceive you."

The Jews do not believe Jesus is the Messiah, but they are not stupid.

It will take a Jew to deceive them for the prophesies to be fulfilled.

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Matthew 24 was addressed to Christians. It was to Christians Matthew 24 was addressed and commanded to leave thecity when they saw the abomination af desolation, that is, the Roamn armies surrounding Jerusalem. It was the Christians who fled the city before its destruction.

David Kent said:

Matthew 24 was addressed to Christians. It was to Christians Matthew 24 was addressed and commanded to leave thecity when they saw the abomination af desolation, that is, the Roamn armies surrounding Jerusalem. It was the Christians who fled the city before its destruction.

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I guess you don't get it.

The Great Tribulation is called in scripture "the Day of Jacob's Trouble."

The purpose of Jacob's trouble is to bring them back to God in a face to face meeting with the One Israel hung on the tree that day at Calvary.

The center point of all end time prophesy is Israel, the so-called prophetic clock is Israel.

The rest of the world will feel the impact of this time, but Israel will face the full force of it head on.

This is what Jesus is telling the apostles in Matt. 24.

Charlie24 said:

vs. 9 the "little horn" that came out of one of the portions of the generals, is the antichrist.

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does your understanding (identity of the little horn)meet all of the identifying characteristics listed below?


Daniel 7 gives us very precise identifying features of the horn, and every single one must apply in order to make an accurate identification possible. The 13 features are as follows:

1. It arose out of the fourth beast.
2. It came up among the ten horns.
3. It came up after the ten horns had been established.
4. It was to uproot three horns.
5. It was to be greater than the others.
6. It was to be different than the others.
7. It was to have eyes like the eyes of a man and speak great words against God.
8. It was to make war on God's saints.
9. It would think to change times and laws.
10.The saints were to be handed over to it for a time and times and half a time.
11. It shall devour the whole earth.
12. It shall reign until the Ancient of Days comes.
13. Its dominion will be taken away.

pasifika said:

Yes, Jesus put an end to sacrifice and offering but what abomination act did He committed according to Daniel 9:27?

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Dan 9 KJV
27 ..... and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

"and for the overspreading of abominations" this statement is speaking about future events

This is what the reformer Martin Luther says on abominations

https://amazingdiscoveries.org/assets/PDF/References/RB/272 PDFs/Luther_on_Islam_and_the_Papacy.pdf

do a search in the above pdf for abomination there are 19 instances here are two

"The abominations, woes, and injuries which this imperial Papacy has wrought, cannot now be told.... The World has been filled with all kinds of idolatry -- monasteries, foundations, saints, pilgrimages, purgatory, indulgences, celibacy and innumerable other creations of human doctrine and works.... Who can tell how much bloodshed, slaughter, war and misery the Popes [plural!] have wrought both by fighting themselves and stirring up the emperors, kings and princes against one another?"Luther elaborates on Revelation 13:7 and 13:14 that "the Kingdom of Antichrist is...described in the Revelation of John where it is said...'it was given unto him to make war with the saints and to overcome them'.... We must...understand this of the Pope's abominations and tyranny in temporal respects....

Original Happy Camper said:

does your understanding (identity of the little horn)meet all of the identifying characteristics listed below?


Daniel 7 gives us very precise identifying features of the horn, and every single one must apply in order to make an accurate identification possible. The 13 features are as follows:

1. It arose out of the fourth beast.
2. It came up among the ten horns.
3. It came up after the ten horns had been established.
4. It was to uproot three horns.
5. It was to be greater than the others.
6. It was to be different than the others.
7. It was to have eyes like the eyes of a man and speak great words against God.
8. It was to make war on God's saints.
9. It would think to change times and laws.
10.The saints were to be handed over to it for a time and times and half a time.
11. It shall devour the whole earth.
12. It shall reign until the Ancient of Days comes.
13. Its dominion will be taken away.

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I don't think we need a list for Daniel 8 when Gabriel identifies the antichrist.

But if that's what you need, it's ok with me.

Charlie24 said:

I don't think we need a list for Daniel 8 when Gabriel identifies the antichrist.

But if that's what you need, it's ok with me.

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Isaiah 28:9-11 King James Version (KJV)
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

Original Happy Camper said:

Isaiah 28:9-11 King James Version (KJV)
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:

11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

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OK, thanks.

pasifika said:

abomination that causes desolation,

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Desolation of the Earth
Desolation is defined as the state of being uninhabited

Desolation of the Earth
Summary: The Great Controversy: Chapter 41

Her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. . . . In the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her. And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, . . . saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come." Revelation 18:5-10.

The minister who has sacrificed truth to gain the favor of men now discerns the character and influence of his teachings. It is apparent that the omniscient eye was following him as he stood in the desk, as he walked the streets, as he mingled with men in the various scenes of life. Every emotion of the soul, every line written, every word uttered, every act that led men to rest in a refuge of falsehood, has been scattering seed; and now, in the wretched, lost souls around him, he beholds the harvest.

Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture! . . . Behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings." "Howl, ye shepherds, and cry; and wallow yourselves in the ashes, ye principal of the flock: for your days for slaughter and of your dispersions are accomplished; . . . and the shepherds shall have no way to flee, nor the principal of the flock to escape." Jeremiah 23:1, 2; 25:34, 35, margin.

Ministers and people see that they have not sustained the right relation to God. They see that they have rebelled against the Author of all just and righteous law.

Charlie24 said:

OK, thanks.

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You are welcome Have a great Sabbath day today

pasifika said:

Out of one of them (out of 4 horns) came another horn, which started small but grew in power to the south and to the east and towards the Beautiful Land.... The little horn in Daniel 8 comes out from the 4 horns...

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This is a description of Antiochus IV (reigned 175 - 164 BC).

pasifika said:

The antichrist (little horn) comes out from 10 horns Daniel 7:7,8 "......it was different from all the former beasts, and it had 10 horns. While i was thinking about the horns (10horns) another horn, a little one, which came up among them..

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This is a description of Emperor Nero (reigned 54 - 68 AD).

pasifika said:

Hello, Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 11:31 describing the antichrist in the future, someone similar to Antiochus E. of Greece, I think Daniel 8:9-13, 23 is about him.

• Little horn comes up from the 4 horns Daniel 8...(Antiochus E.) Already happened
• Little horn comes up among 10 horns Daniel 7:7-8... (Antichrist) in future

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You got Dan 8 right. But I cannot see how the other 3 passages describe an end time AC. You have to assume huge historical gaps in history.

pasifika said:

Yes, agree both Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 11:31 as same event and times and in the future..

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pasifika said:

Hello, Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 11:31 describing the antichrist in the future, someone similar to Antiochus E. of Greece, I think Daniel 8:9-13, 23 is about him. Little horn comes up from the 4 horns Daniel 8...(Antiochus E.) Already happened. Little horn comes up among 10 horns Daniel 7:7-8... (Antichrist) in future

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Charlie24 said:

My info on Daniel 11:31 comes from several theologians and Josephus that this verse describes Antiochus' army attacking Israel and killing 40,000 Jews and sacrificing a pig on the alter of the temple defiling the sanctuary.

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Charlie24 said:

Daniel 8:8 is referring to Alexander the Great, his 4 generals divide the land at his death. vs. 9 the "little horn" that came out of one of the portions of the generals, is the antichrist.

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I'll watch from the sidelines how you resolve your differences.