Disowning my emotions to make single life easier

tdidymas said:

Jesus rebuked His disciples many times. He said "get behind me, Satan" to Peter. He rebuked the religious leaders many times, saying things like "you are children of the devil." He said "fear Him who can destroy both your body and soul in hell." In anger He said to people in the temple "you have turned My Father's house into a den of thieves." Does this fit your role model?
TD

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ReesePiece23 said:

Yeah, it does. Because I don't think any of this was designed to provoke guilt, at all. And when you read EVERYTHING Jesus has to say, then what He says here could be taken on many different levels.

If I KNOW that you have the ability to pull off something amazing, but I catch you sitting around gaming instead, then I'm going to gently remind you of what you're capable of and leave you with the option.

That's all Jesus is doing here. The way we communicate has changed dramatically over last couple of thousand years, and I doubt His tone was as domineering as it reads either.

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tdidymas said:

You doubt His tone was as domineering as it reads? So then, you think the apostles were lying? exaggerating? presenting Christ in an untrue manner?

You don't think "you are sons of the devil" was not designed to provoke guilt in the minds of those guilty of sin but feeling very self-righteous? And can you please explain how the reading of Rom. 7 isn't describing guilt? Can you please explain how this statement doesn't describe Paul's guilt: "who can deliver me from this body of death?" Do you think that Paul is describing perfect peace in that statement? Harmony with God and nature?
TD

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ReesePiece23 said:

No, it's as I said - people communicated much differently back then. We unfortunately live in a snowflake culture where you can't even voice an opinion without people crying, let alone speak in a blunt manner to get a point across.

And no, because saying "you are the sons of the devil" back then, was the most effective way to say "your unawareness and ignorance is drawing you away from the life you could have" - Paul, has probably had the revelation we've all had and (most likely out of fear) is calling out for help.

It all comes down to emotional intelligence when reading the bible - I'm looking for answers, I'm not looking to win a debate or force people to see my point of view. I don't care if people think I'm right, I'm only worried about those people who are out there right now blindly guilt tripping others who haven't actually done anything wrong. And usually, it's those who very rarely (if ever) reference 1 John 1:9-10

Honest communication is not guilt.

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tdidymas said:

I guess it depends on what you mean by guilt. The fact that people are sinners, and sinners have a need to feel the guilt they incur, or else they will have no fear of God, as Rom. 3:10-18 shows. But Jesus did indeed impose guilt on those who refused to believe they were guilty, as exampled in Luke 11:39-52.

But perhaps you are confused between real guilt and false guilt? People have guilty feelings falsely after the Lord's forgiveness, because they just have a hard time believing in His forgiveness. Furthermore, there may be some time required to heal emotionally from the guilt of sin. Maybe that's what you're talking about?
TD

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ReesePiece23 said:

"I'm guilty of being forgetful sometimes" to me, is entirely different to "I feel so guilty now that my pastor has been so scathing towards me " - the later is something I never, ever want to see.

I think Jesus is a master criminologist - He understands the various dynamics that are at play in a person's life. If Mr Goldsmith had been made redundant from the sorting office, whilst Mrs Goldsmith was having an affair with the very postman who had made him redundant - and then, on top of that, all of Mr Goldsmith's children are too busy to talk to him now that they've 'made' it, then it stands to reason that Mr Goldsmith is going to need to fill a void or two.

Is he guilty of letting himself down? Yes. Should he feel guilty? Absolutely not, he's human. Hopefully (despite my best efforts to confuse you) that makes sense.

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tdidymas said:

What does this story have to do with the price of tea in China? It has nothing to do with my original statement: guilt and shame are good, if they are used to direct us toward God, that is, toward hope in Christ. And I'm not talking about false guilt or exaggerations or vain imagination. I'm speaking of the real thing. I'm basing my statement on what I read in the NT.
TD

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ReesePiece23 said:

I'm talking about the different definitions of the word guilt - you said "it depends what you mean by guilt". So I threw out a couple of definitions. Guilt has a few definitions by definition. What you read in the NT is also a definition, your definition. (Sorry, but...)

Guilt and shame are never good - regardless of how you twist it. They're NEVER good. Why do I feel so strongly about this? Because I just don't understand why we'd be put behind the eight ball before we're even born, to a life we didn't even ask for, in an imperfect world, and THEN be expected to be perfect -(this isn't my opinion of God by the way, this is more my opinion of how Christians pitch it sometimes.)

I personally believe it's more abstract and complex than all of that, which I get. Because as someone who has actually drank tea in China - and travelled much of the world, you start to see why it has to be that way. Only one third of the world is actually Christian, which is a huge problem for the faith - and I think linear and dogmatic thinking has a lot to do with it. The bible is actually not as clear as people make it, really, it isn't, otherwise pastors wouldn't spend 20 years studying it. (A clued up Christian would add a third tier to this debate, that would most likely slot between both our viewpoints. A person more clued up than me, that's for sure.

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