The Bible teaches that salvation comes with conditions.

SkyWriting · Dec 26, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
"But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and
the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin." (1 John 1:7) (NKJV).
Condition of Salvation: If we walk in the light as He is in the light.

This one is correct, but it's not a condition statement for salvation,
it's an "and" statement.

SkyWriting · Dec 26, 2019

jimmyjimmy said:
Here's an exhaustive list of the works performed by the thief of the cross:

His works were "personal testimony" but your argument is still valid.
None are required.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 26, 2019

jimmyjimmy said:
Here's an exhaustive list of the works performed by the thief of the cross:

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Actually the thief on the cross defended Jesus (Which was an act of bravery). He stood up for Jesus. He was not ashamed of Jesus. Jesus says, "For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels." (Luke 9:26).

Bible Highlighter · Dec 26, 2019

SkyWriting said:
This one is correct, but it's not a condition statement,
it's an "and" statement.

Nope. The word "if" is in there. Last time I checked in the English language, the word "if" is a conditional clause.

jimmyjimmy · Dec 26, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Actually the thief on the cross defended Jesus (Which was an act of bravery). He stood up for Jesus. He was not ashamed of Jesus. Jesus says, "For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels." (Luke 9:26).

That doesn't tick any of the boxes you've proposed one needs to tick in order to earn his salvation.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 26, 2019

jimmyjimmy said:
That doesn't tick any of the boxes you've proposed one needs to tick in order to earn his salvation.

SkyWriting said:
His works were "personal testimony" but your argument is still valid.
None are required.

Not really. Even if one did not consider the thief defending Jesus as a work, we cannot assume that salvation is a one sized fits all type package. Babies die and are saved without placing their faith in Jesus Christ and without seeking forgiveness of their sins with the Lord. The thief on the cross was unable to live out his faith.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 26, 2019

redleghunter said:
Hi Al. You accused the poster you responded for cherry picking then did it yourself stopping at John 15:6. I highlighted the portions which I think you did not consider.

John 15: NASB

1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. 5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. 7“If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8“My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. 9“Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. 10“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. 11“These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.

12“This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. 13“Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.14“You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15“No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16“You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17“This I command you, that you love one another.

The disciples being clean by the word Jesus spoke unto them (John 15:3) does not mean they are forever sealed and saved for all time. It means they currently have salvation (present tense) but they must continue in salvation by being fruitful by his deeds (future tense). For if a branch does not bear fruit it will be cut off and thrown into the fire. John the Baptist said a similar thing. He said, "do not say to yourselves we are sons of Abraham (i.e. Belief Alone-ism), but he said that the axe is laid root to the tree and that they are to bring forth fruits (deeds) worth of repentance (i.e. in their seeking forgiveness with the Lord). The idea here is that the axe is going to chop these Jews down if they do not bring forth fruits worthy of repentance.

jimmyjimmy · Dec 26, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Not really. Even if one did not consider the thief defending Jesus as a work, we cannot assume that salvation is a one sized fits all type package. Babies die and are saved without placing their faith in Jesus Christ and without seeking forgiveness of their sins with the Lord. The thief on the cross was unable to live out his faith.

You are undermining your entire soteriology by asserting babies are saved.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 26, 2019

jimmyjimmy said:
You are undermining your entire soteriology by asserting babies are saved.

So you don't believe all babies who die go Heaven?

jimmyjimmy · Dec 26, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
So you don't believe all babies who die go Heaven?

You are happy to speak where the Bible hasn't. I won't go there.

SkyWriting · Dec 26, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Not really. Even if one did not consider the thief defending Jesus as a work, we cannot assume that salvation is a one sized fits all type package. Babies die and are saved without placing their faith in Jesus Christ and without seeking forgiveness of their sins with the Lord. The thief on the cross was unable to live out his faith.

- Seeking forgiveness is the result of faith.
You don't walk up to a tree and ask it to forgive your sins so you can get saved.
Faith in God is required first.

- Babies are naturally drawn to Love, as Jesus explained.
They've not had time to start to love themselves or the earth, like the rich do.

-The thief on the cross did not need to do anything other than have faith.
Faith in God is required first. No response is required. But you can spot those with artificial faith in the law, based on their lame works, public chanting, showey giving, etc.

brinny · Dec 26, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Nonsense... The one who does not abide in Him did not belong to Him. But you are already clean because of the Word I have spoken to you...

My sheep hear My voice and they follow me and I give then eternal life and they shall never perish, no one can snatch them out of My hand. My Father who has given them to Me is Greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand - I and the Father are One. John 10:27-30

Let's stop all this fear mongering about losing salvation.

The word "apostate" comes to mind.

Would you mind elaborating on what it means?

Thank you.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 26, 2019

jimmyjimmy said:
You are happy to speak where the Bible hasn't. I won't go there.

The Bible does speak about this topic clearly.
It is not a mystery unless you want it to be one.

jimmyjimmy · Dec 26, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
The Bible does speak about this topic clearly.
It is not a mystery unless you want it to be one.

My soteriology has room for such a concept as babies being saved; however, yours does not. According to you, faith + works is the requirement for salvation. Where are babies who possess either of these?

Bible Highlighter · Dec 26, 2019

SkyWriting said:
- Seeking forgiveness is the result of faith.
You don't walk up to a tree and ask it to forgive your sins so you can get saved.
Faith in God is required first.

- Babies are naturally drawn to Love, as Jesus explained.
They've not had time to start to love themselves or the earth, like the rich do.

-The thief on the cross did not need to do anything other than have faith.

Again, my point proves that there is not a one size fits all salvation package for all people. But the thief on the cross showed FAITHFULNESS and not just having a belief alone on Jesus. The thief on the cross showed his faithfulness in his defending Jesus. It was the only work he could do. To speak in Christ's defense. So no. This was not a belief alone that saved him. He spoke out in defense for Jesus thereby showing his FAITHFULNESS. That is what works is. FAITHFULNESS or devotion. The thief expressed his faithfulness by his words.

SkyWriting · Dec 26, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
Again, my point proves that there is not a one size fits all salvation package for all people. But the thief on the cross showed FAITHFULNESS and not just having a belief alone on Jesus. The thief on the cross showed his faithfulness in his defending Jesus. It was the only work he could do. To speak in Christ's defense. So no. This was not a belief alone that saved him. He spoke out in defense for Jesus thereby showing his FAITHFULNESS. That is what works is. FAITHFULNESS or devotion. The thief expressed his faithfulness by his words.

Only faith in God is required, one size fits all.
It's a free gift.

What Does the Bible Say About The Free Gift?

https://www.openbible.info/topics/free

Bible Highlighter · Dec 26, 2019

jimmyjimmy said:
My soteriology has room for such a concept as babies being saved; however, yours does not. According to you, faith + works is the requirement for salvation. Where are babies who possesses these?

As I said. Salvation is not a one size fits all package. Those who are able to live out their faith are required to go through the Sanctification Process after they are saved by the Justification Process. Jesus says to whom much is given, much is required.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 26, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Only faith in God is required, one size fits all.

Nope. Babies do not really have faith exactly. They do not understand the concept yet. So salvation is not a one size fit all kind of thing.

Bible Highlighter · Dec 26, 2019

SkyWriting said:
Only faith in God is required, one size fits all.
It's a free gift.

What Does the Bible Say About The Free Gift?

James says show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith by my works (James 2:18).

SkyWriting · Dec 26, 2019

Bible Highlighter said:
James says show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith by my works (James 2:18).

He's not talking to God in that quote.

The Bible teaches that salvation comes with conditions.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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