James Disproves Free Will

Cis.jd · Dec 21, 2019

Mark Quayle said:
Whether or not you are able to obey the command to not murder, the fact the command is given does not imply the ability to obey. In fact, if it implies anything along those lines, it implies the ability to disobey!

It implies the ability to disobey. Disobeying is a choice, it is a choice to not obey. Your reasoning is pointless because at the end of the day I can choose to murder or not, despite there being consequences for it. This is a different topic from what you and I were arguing about, it's like your jumping to a new car because you couldn't stay with the one you where trying use.

Lonnie Owens · Dec 21, 2019

Dave L said:
“But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.” James 3:8 (KJV 1900)

so you are saying, because I don't believe as you do, that I am not in control of my own tongue?? that is ridiculous to even believe...

Lonnie Owens · Dec 21, 2019

@Dave L Here are some for you..

James 3:13-18 "13Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom. 14But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth. 15This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic. 16For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing. 17But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. 18And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace."

division would be strife as well, and to say that Jesus lied would be speaking against the truth and by that I mean that you say Pay says we have no free will when Jesus says otherwise..

so does John and Paul.. we will get to them in a minute...

Dave L · Dec 21, 2019

Lonnie Owens said:
@Dave L Here are some for you..

James 3:13-18 "13Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom. 14But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth. 15This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic. 16For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing. 17But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. 18And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace."

division would be strife as well, and to say that Jesus lied would be speaking against the truth and by that I mean that you say Pay says we have no free will when Jesus says otherwise..

so does John and Paul.. we will get to them in a minute...

Just stick with James, all will adjust to what he says.

Dave L · Dec 21, 2019

Lonnie Owens said:
so you are saying, because I don't believe as you do, that I am not in control of my own tongue?? that is ridiculous to even believe...

Have you ever said a wrong thing after becoming a Christian?

Dave L · Dec 21, 2019

Lonnie Owens said:
no he doesn't

for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.
Do you remember that verse??

Romans 10:19 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

you have to choose to believe before you can be saved so that tosses out the idea that only born again have free will... let's try again shall we...

The will needs to be saved before it can make saved choices.

Lonnie Owens · Dec 21, 2019

Dave L said:
Have you ever said a wrong thing after becoming a Christian?

sure have and even after becoming a Christian, what's your point???.. have even said a lot of right things before becoming a Christian as well.. and your point would be????

Lonnie Owens · Dec 21, 2019

Dave L said:
Just stick with James, all will adjust to what he says.

Again with the avoiding...

Lonnie Owens · Dec 21, 2019

and just to make sure everyone understands I am not goading I am wanting an explanation.. If a person cannot answer a question then they should not post a thread.. and by answer I mean in your own words... you post scripture explain how you cam to your conclusion..

Dave L · Dec 21, 2019

Lonnie Owens said:
Again with the avoiding...

“If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.” 1 John 1:8 (KJV 1900)

Dave L · Dec 21, 2019

Lonnie Owens said:
sure have and even after becoming a Christian, what's your point???.. have even said a lot of right things before becoming a Christian as well.. and your point would be????

You do not have free will if you say bad things.

Dave L · Dec 21, 2019

Lonnie Owens said:
@Dave L Here are some for you..

James 3:13-18 "13Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom. 14But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth. 15This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic. 16For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing. 17But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. 18And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace."

division would be strife as well, and to say that Jesus lied would be speaking against the truth and by that I mean that you say Pay says we have no free will when Jesus says otherwise..

so does John and Paul.. we will get to them in a minute...

As long as you sin you do not have free will.

Lonnie Owens · Dec 21, 2019

Dave L said:
You do not have free will if you say bad things.

If that is the case no one has free will even the born again because we all sin...lol... so your point about James saying we have no free will is moot and we are just talking as sinners and not the saved...

how is it that we have no free will according to James in your own words???

Dave L · Dec 21, 2019

Lonnie Owens said:
If that is the case no one has free will even the born again because we all sin...lol... so your point about James saying we have no free will is moot and we are just talking as sinners and not the saved...

how is it that we have no free will according to James in your own words???

We cannot control our tongues.

Lonnie Owens · Dec 21, 2019

Dave L said:
We cannot control our tongues.

then according to everything you have stated we can never be born again..

Dave L · Dec 21, 2019

Lonnie Owens said:
then according to everything you have stated we can never be born again..

Not, you cannot have free will until you are, And then you still sin

Lonnie Owens · Dec 21, 2019

Dave L said:
As long as you sin you do not have free will.

Dave L said:
Not, you cannot have free will until you are, And then you still sin

ok so a sin is a sin and according to you as long as we sin we cannot be born again because to be born again would be to devote yourself to God and reject sin..

Clete · Dec 21, 2019

Mark Quayle said:
Lol, ok, I'm sure that really worries him. Meanwhile, it seems to me, if you really want to know, you could look. I see no reason he should give you priority over the many others who responded to him.

I'm not asking for priority status, just substantive responses and I'm entirely sure he couldn't care less about whether he's on my ignore list or not. My ignore list is for my benefit not his. I don't respond well to having my time wasted and hobbies that are no fun sort of suck so therefore it's the ignore list for those who waste my time. It's not about me trying to punish anyone it's just me insisting on substantive, two way conversation.

Dave L · Dec 21, 2019

Lonnie Owens said:
ok so a sin is a sin and according to you as long as we sin we cannot be born again because to be born again would be to devote yourself to God and reject sin..

Unless born again all you do is sin.

Clete · Dec 21, 2019

Dave L said:
I prefer being ignored. But I have a link color changer now so I don't miss posts from now on. So if you have a challenge, please post it.

You clearly missed the point. You're a Calvinist. You think every word I say to you and every word you say (or not) in response was all predestined by God a billion trillion years before time began and so, according to you, it isn't your choice and if God predestined you to be on my ignore list, your preference, while just as predestined as everything else, is totally irrelevant to whether you'll be there.

You clearly aren't interested in engaging in any sort of actual debate and so I'll just chalk this exchange up as just one more that God must have predestined me to win. Yes, I considered any argument I make that is intentionally ignored to be tacitly conceded. Don't worry! That was predestined too, right?

Clete

James Disproves Free Will

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