two covenants

Mercy74 · Dec 17, 2019

Gup20 said:
It is a description of the covenant, not a title.

Galatians 3:14-18 (NASB) 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it. 16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ. 17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise. 18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.

So the question to you my friend is which covenant is Paul talking about in verses 15 & 17 in terms of faith? It is clear from 14, 16, and 18 it is talking about a covenant made with Abraham. At the beginning of Gal 3, Paul quotes Gen 15:6. However, Galatians 3:16 has heavy references to Genesis 15:5, and Genesis 17:7-8 when God establishes the everlasting covenant with Abraham.

In Romans 4, talking about the faith that leads to righteousness, Paul quotes Genesis 15:6 twice but he also quotes Genesis 17:5 where God is in the middle of establishing a covenant with Abraham & calls him the father of many nations.

Romans 4:13 (NASB) For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Romans 4:16-17 (NASB) 16 For this reason it is by faith, in order that it may be in accordance with grace, so that the promise will be guaranteed to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, 17 (as it is written, "A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS HAVE I MADE YOU") in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist.

The Promise that Abraham & his descendants would be heir of the world is the covenant God makes with Abraham in Genesis 17:

Genesis 17:2 (NASB) "I will establish My covenant between Me and you, And I will multiply you exceedingly."
5 (NASB) "No longer shall your name be called Abram, But your name shall be Abraham; For I have made you the father of a multitude of nations.
7 "I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you. 8 "I will give to you and to your descendants after you, the land of your sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God."

So Paul quotes both Gen 15 & 17 as a faith-based covenant God makes with Abraham. This this why I say the Abrahamic covenant is the covenant of faith.

The covenant was established with Abraham through the practice of fleshly circumcision on the 8th day; "not only to those who are of the Law"; so it certainly includes those born under the Law. I know that the law does not nullify the promise made to Abraham; however those who are circumcised must keep the whole Law. Abraham circumcised every male in his house including all of his sons & his servants. One who is circumcised in his heart should not proven to be a lawbreaker.

Mercy74 · Dec 17, 2019

JLB777 said:
Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” Galatians 3:12

Again, I ask, where does the word “contrary” appear in Galatians 3:12.

Please do not ignore my question.

JLB

Galatians 3:12

The law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.” (BSB)

But the Law has nothing to do with faith. Instead, as the scripture says, "Whoever does everything the Law requires will live." (GNT)

Gup20 · Dec 17, 2019

Mercy74 said:
If you were children of Abraham you would do the WORKS of Abraham (John 8:39). What work did Abraham do? Abraham circumcised every male in his house.

Abraham had faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Circumcision of the heart is just as valid to comply with the covenant as circumcision of the flesh.

[Deu 30:6 NASB] 6 "Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.

[Rom 2:28-29 NASB] 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

[Eph 1:13-14 NASB] 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of [God's own] possession, to the praise of His glory.

[Rom 4:9-13 NASB] 9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

ralliann · Dec 17, 2019

Mercy74 said:
The covenant was established with Abraham through the practice of fleshly circumcision on the 8th day;

I do not think this so.
An oath confirms the covenant.....
Heb 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

Confirmation in Isaac..... God actually swears an oath
Ge 22:16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son

Ge 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Ro 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Heb 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

It is not established in circumcision of the foreskin of the flesh

Concerning the notion of God swearing an oath....think on that...
Why would God swear oaths if everything God said were equally sure?

Think on this....
Ps 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

A change in priesthood happens because The Levitical priesthood, the order of Aaron was not established with the surety of an oath.....

Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec

Apart from an oath God can change his mind and repent
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

So we can indeed never concern ourselves with changes of anything with which God establishes with an oath....It is sure with an oath.

How many times must we hear interpreted that the Law says that the priesthood according to the order of AAron was forever?
Ex 40:15 And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest’s office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.
Nu 25:13 And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

Gup20 · Dec 17, 2019

ralliann said:
I do not think this so.
An oath confirms the covenant.....
Heb 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

Confirmation in Isaac..... God actually swears an oath
Ge 22:16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son

Ge 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Ro 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Heb 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

It is not established in circumcision of the foreskin of the flesh

Concerning the notion of God swearing an oath....think on that...
Why would God sear oaths if everything God said were equally sure?

Think on this....
Ps 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

A change in priesthood happens because The Levitical priesthood, the order of Aaron was not established with the surety of an oath.....

Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec

Apart from an oath God can change his mind and repent
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

So we can indeed never concern ourselves with changes of anything with which God establishes with an oath....It is sure with an oath.

Also don't forget that Abraham was credited with righteous for his faith PRIOR to circumcision.

[Rom 4:9-13 NASB] 9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

JLB777 · Dec 17, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Ordinances do not come from G-d.

Completely False.

The Lord God commanded Moses and the children of Israel to keep His ordinances to observe them.

“Now this is the commandment, and these are the statutes and judgments which the Lord your God has commanded to teach you, that you may observe them in the land which you are crossing over to possess, Deuteronomy 6:1

Judgements: Strongs H4941 - mishpat

The KJV translates Strong's H4941 in the following manner: judgment (296x), manner (38x), right (18x), cause (12x), ordinance (11x), lawful (7x), order (5x), worthy (3x), fashion (3x), custom (2x), discretion (2x), law (2x), measure (2x), sentence (2x), miscellaneous (18x).

judgment, justice, ordinance

judgment

act of deciding a case

place, court, seat of judgment

process, procedure, litigation (before judges)

case, cause (presented for judgment)

sentence, decision (of judgment)

execution (of judgment)

time (of judgment)

justice, right, rectitude (attributes of God or man)

ordinance

decision (in law)

right, privilege, due (legal)

proper, fitting, measure, fitness, custom, manner, plan

Please stop making up false statements to prop up your man made doctrine.

JLB

JLB777 · Dec 17, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Galatians 3:12

The law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.” (BSB)

But the Law has nothing to do with faith. Instead, as the scripture says, "Whoever does everything the Law requires will live." (GNT)

That word contrary does not appear in the original manuscripts.

Please show us the Strongs concordance rendering of that word.

It’s a man made, man added word.

Look it up in the dictionary of secular words.

That’s all it is.

JLB

ralliann · Dec 17, 2019

Gup20 said:
Also don't forget that Abraham was credited with righteous for his faith PRIOR to circumcision.

[Rom 4:9-13 NASB] 9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Yes, yes, yes, Thank you for this reminder. What does James say concerning this?

The fullness (perfection) of Abrahams faith......
James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? {Seest … : or, Thou seest }
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Mercy74 · Dec 17, 2019

Gup20 said:
Abraham had faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ. Circumcision of the heart is just as valid to comply with the covenant as circumcision of the flesh.

[Deu 30:6 NASB] 6 "Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.

[Rom 2:28-29 NASB] 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

[Eph 1:13-14 NASB] 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of [God's own] possession, to the praise of His glory.

[Rom 4:9-13 NASB] 9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Again, you insert your own conjecture and flawed logic into your understanding of scripture. No scripture says what you falsely stated: "Circumcision of the heart is just as valid to comply with the covenant as circumcision of the flesh."

Mercy74 · Dec 17, 2019

JLB777 said:
Completely False.

The Lord God commanded Moses and the children of Israel to keep His ordinances to observe them.

“Now this is the commandment, and these are the statutes and judgments which the Lord your God has commanded to teach you, that you may observe them in the land which you are crossing over to possess, Deuteronomy 6:1

Judgements: Strongs H4941 - mishpat

The KJV translates Strong's H4941 in the following manner: judgment (296x), manner (38x), right (18x), cause (12x), ordinance (11x), lawful (7x), order (5x), worthy (3x), fashion (3x), custom (2x), discretion (2x), law (2x), measure (2x), sentence (2x), miscellaneous (18x).

judgment, justice, ordinance

judgment

act of deciding a case

place, court, seat of judgment

process, procedure, litigation (before judges)

case, cause (presented for judgment)

sentence, decision (of judgment)

execution (of judgment)

time (of judgment)

justice, right, rectitude (attributes of God or man)

ordinance

decision (in law)

right, privilege, due (legal)

proper, fitting, measure, fitness, custom, manner, plan

Please stop making up false statements to prop up your man made doctrine

JLB

The type of ordinances Paul is referring to do not come from G-d! You can not change the "environment" or "context" of a word then keep the same meaning. The meanings of words change as you put them in different books, sentences and quote them from different authors. Ordinances or judgments in Deuteronomy are not the same as Paul is using in his HUMAN argument. Paul is writing about the law of commandments being CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES. Did Moses say that the law was being CONTAINED, limited or controlled?

Mercy74 · Dec 17, 2019

JLB777 said:
That word contrary does not appear in the original manuscripts.

Please show us the Strongs concordance rendering of that word.

It’s a man made, man added word.

Look it up in the dictionary of secular words.

That’s all it is.

JLB

What is man made is your understanding of scripture. It doesn't matter which words you use, what matters most are their meanings. Your faith should be in agreement with G-d's law!

Mercy74 · Dec 17, 2019

Gup20 said:
Also don't forget that Abraham was credited with righteous for his faith PRIOR to circumcision.

[Rom 4:9-13 NASB] 9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

Yes but Abraham's faith did not prevent him from becoming circumcised. So after Abraham believed, he later circumcised himself and every male in his house. So if you have the faith of Abraham, you shall do what Abraham did.

Mercy74 · Dec 17, 2019

ralliann said:
I do not think this so.
An oath confirms the covenant.....
Heb 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

Confirmation in Isaac..... God actually swears an oath
Ge 22:16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son

Ge 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Ro 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
Heb 11:18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

It is not established in circumcision of the foreskin of the flesh

Concerning the notion of God swearing an oath....think on that...
Why would God swear oaths if everything God said were equally sure?

Think on this....
Ps 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

A change in priesthood happens because The Levitical priesthood, the order of Aaron was not established with the surety of an oath.....

Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec

Apart from an oath God can change his mind and repent
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

So we can indeed never concern ourselves with changes of anything with which God establishes with an oath....It is sure with an oath.

How many times must we hear interpreted that the Law says that the priesthood according to the order of AAron was forever?
Ex 40:15 And thou shalt anoint them, as thou didst anoint their father, that they may minister unto me in the priest’s office: for their anointing shall surely be an everlasting priesthood throughout their generations.
Nu 25:13 And he shall have it, and his seed after him, even the covenant of an everlasting priesthood; because he was zealous for his God, and made an atonement for the children of Israel.

Genesis 17
Abram was ninety-nine years old when the Lord appeared to him again and said, “I am God All-Powerful. If you obey me and always do right, 2 I will keep my solemn promise to you and give you more descendants than can be counted.” 3 Abram bowed with his face to the ground, and God said:
4-5 I promise that you will be the father of many nations. That’s why I now change your name from Abram to Abraham. 6 I will give you a lot of descendants, and in the future they will become great nations. Some of them will even be kings. 7 I will always keep the promise I have made to you and your descendants, because I am your God and their God. 8 I will give you and them the land in which you are now a foreigner. I will give the whole land of Canaan to your family forever, and I will be their God.
9 Abraham, you and all future members of your family must promise to obey me. 10-11 As the sign that you are keeping this promise, you must circumcise every man and boy in your family. 12-13 From now on, your family must circumcise every baby boy when he is eight days old. You must even circumcise any man or boy you have as a slave, both those born in your homes and those you buy from foreigners. This will be a sign that my promise to you will last forever. 14 Any man who isn’t circumcised hasn’t kept his promise to me and cannot be one of my people.

pasifika · Dec 17, 2019

Mercy74 said:
The covenant established with Abraham was a freshly circumcision on the 8th day. Do you agree?

the covenant with Abraham is an everlasting covenant and circumcision of the flesh is not everlasting because his children are flesh and blood but unless the Spirit dwells within their hearts then their bodies became new ones Not flesh and blood But flesh and the Spirit...this what circumcision is, the old one is cut off (flesh&blood ) or "natural body" and the new one comes (flesh &Spirit ) or "spiritual body"....

Mercy74 · Dec 17, 2019

pasifika said:
the covenant with Abraham is an everlasting covenant and circumcision of the flesh is not everlasting because his children are flesh and blood but unless the Spirit dwells within their hearts then their bodies became new ones Not flesh and blood But flesh and the Spirit...this what circumcision is, the old one is cut off (flesh&blood ) or "natural body" and the new one comes (flesh &Spirit ) or "spiritual body"....

Genesis 17

pasifika · Dec 17, 2019

Mercy74 said:
If you were children of Abraham you would do the WORKS of Abraham (John 8:39). What work did Abraham do? Abraham circumcised every male in his house.

The work of Abraham is the work that comes from Faith....eg, when God told Abraham to offer his son Isaac as a sacrifice, why do you think Abraham Did not question what God commanded him to do instead but to obey God? What do you think if God ask you or me the same thing what would we do? I probably Not agree with God on that. But that is what comes from Faith...is believing with all your heart, soul and strength without any doubt whatsoever that what God is asking of us is always for our own good with Him...

pasifika · Dec 17, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Genesis 17

The circumcision of the flesh is point to a spiritual circumcision...there is No benefits of flesh circumcision for our spiritual growth if Sin still rule over the flesh...old body rule by sin must be put to death so new body is free of sin and everlasting....

Gup20 · Dec 17, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Again, you insert your own conjecture and flawed logic into your understanding of scripture. No scripture says what you falsely stated: "Circumcision of the heart is just as valid to comply with the covenant as circumcision of the flesh."

I'm absolutely shocked that you would say this... the evidence was literally there in the same post you quoted!!

For your convenience, I'll post it again, and I'll expand upon it.

[Deu 30:6 NASB] 6 "Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.

[Rom 2:28-29 NASB] 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

[Eph 1:13-14 NASB] 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of [God's own] possession, to the praise of His glory.

[Rom 4:9-13 NASB] 9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

[Jer 31:31-33 NASB] 31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. 33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

[Heb 10:15-16, 22, 38-39 NASB] 15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, 16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," [He then says,] ... 22 let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled [clean] from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. ... 38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. 39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

[Phl 3:3, 9 NASB] 3 for we are the [true] circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, ... 9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from [the] Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which [comes] from God on the basis of faith,

[Col 2:11 NASB] 11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

[Gal 5:2-6 NASB] 2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

ralliann · Dec 17, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Genesis 17
Abram was ninety-nine years old when the Lord appeared to him again and said, “I am God All-Powerful. If you obey me and always do right, 2 I will keep my solemn promise to you and give you more descendants than can be counted.” 3 Abram bowed with his face to the ground, and God said:
4-5 I promise that you will be the father of many nations. That’s why I now change your name from Abram to Abraham. 6 I will give you a lot of descendants, and in the future they will become great nations. Some of them will even be kings. 7 I will always keep the promise I have made to you and your descendants, because I am your God and their God. 8 I will give you and them the land in which you are now a foreigner. I will give the whole land of Canaan to your family forever, and I will be their God.
9 Abraham, you and all future members of your family must promise to obey me. 10-11 As the sign that you are keeping this promise, you must circumcise every man and boy in your family. 12-13 From now on, your family must circumcise every baby boy when he is eight days old. You must even circumcise any man or boy you have as a slave, both those born in your homes and those you buy from foreigners. This will be a sign that my promise to you will last forever. 14 Any man who isn’t circumcised hasn’t kept his promise to me and cannot be one of my people.

What version are you using? There is no such things as "solemn promise" etc. in any bible version I have read? Are you just inserting your interpretation into the above?
Because this covenant is established in Abrahams seed Isaac.
Gen 17:7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

Ge 17:21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.

Ga 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Of all Abrahams sons it was Isaac that was the seed spoken of here....Not Ishmael, or his sons by Keturah.
Can we agree on this?

Mercy74 · Dec 17, 2019

Gup20 said:
I'm absolutely shocked that you would say this... the evidence was literally there in the same post you quoted!!

For your convenience, I'll post it again, and I'll expand upon it.

[Deu 30:6 NASB] 6 "Moreover the LORD your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your descendants, to love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, so that you may live.

[Rom 2:28-29 NASB] 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

[Eph 1:13-14 NASB] 13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of [God's own] possession, to the praise of His glory.

[Rom 4:9-13 NASB] 9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, "FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS." 10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised; 11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised. 13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

[Jer 31:31-33 NASB] 31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. 33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

[Heb 10:15-16, 22, 38-39 NASB] 15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying, 16 "THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM," [He then says,] ... 22 let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled [clean] from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. ... 38 BUT MY RIGHTEOUS ONE SHALL LIVE BY FAITH; AND IF HE SHRINKS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM. 39 But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

[Phl 3:3, 9 NASB] 3 for we are the [true] circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, ... 9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from [the] Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which [comes] from God on the basis of faith,

[Col 2:11 NASB] 11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

[Gal 5:2-6 NASB] 2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. 3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. 4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.

I never challenged the vaiidity of circumcision of the heart. Both are required.

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