Christian Zionist "Replacement Theology"
- Thread starter BABerean2
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All humanity is Jewish. Therefore, everyone's mother is a Jew.
Example of the mathematical confirmation of ancestral genetic ubiquity
Abraham lineage
DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?
Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places
Jewish-Roots Arabs in Israel
Tracing the lost tribes to Jewish communities in Africa
Nigeria's Igbo Jews: 'Lost tribe' of Israel? - CNN
http://www.worldjewishcongress.org/...-africa-has-jewish-roots-genetic-tests-reveal
https://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/...her-claims-proof-of-tribe-of-Ephraim-in-India
https://www.jta.org/2013/05/23/life...bush-bani-israel-tribe-claims-jewish-heritage
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Douggg
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No, to both statements.
Can you trace your ancestry back to Jerusalem, to the days of Uzziah? It is a certain people in Jerusalem, in the future, who's forefathers lived in Jerusalem in the days of their king Uzziah, king of Judah.
Zechariah 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
The mount of Olives is not split in half yet. Jesus's Second Coming has not happen yet. Jerusalem, the Jews, have not said "blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord" yet.
Matthew 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
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The Jews themselves acknowledge and applaud humanity's Jewishness, as to them it literally fulfills God's promise to Abraham.
Or don't you believe them?
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Douggg
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Go to any Jewish site, and ask them who is a Jew? The answer you will get is someone who's mother is a Jew, or someone who has converted to Judaism in a process managed by a Rabbi.
btw, if you ate a diet which the food and preparation would be considered "Jewish", would that make you a Jew ? Or if you ate an "Italian" diet, would that make you an Italian? No, it would not. So when you are talking about "Jewishness" and "Jewish", that is not equivalent to if a person is a Jew or not.
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sovereigngrace
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This is a passage that has confused many Christians over the years. The reason for this seems to revolve around the phrase “all Israel shall be saved.” There are many that deduce corporate salvation for natural Israel from this. But is Paul contradicting himself in his Romans 9-11 discourse? In one breath in Romans 9:27 he is saying “a remnant shall be saved” (future, passive, indicative), in the next, in Romans 11:26, he is saying “all Israel shall be saved” (future, passive, indicative).
I think what you are missing is that Paul actually explains in his introduction in Romans 9:6-13 who "all Israel" are. We do not need to speculate. Please read it: “For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
What this is saying is, those who are not saved have no right to consider themselves as true Israel. The apostle here identifies two Israels; one elect and believing, the other lost and unbelieving. One is true spiritual Israel (“the children of God”/“the children of the promise”), the other is unbelieving and merely “children of the flesh.” Basically: national theocratic Israel was a political entity in which a believing spiritual remnant – true Israel – abode. It is only those Jews who belong to the remnant that are true Israelis in God’s eyes.
Jesus also exposed those who boast that they are Jews but who are not. He exposed them as those “which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan” (Revelation 2:9, 3:9). It is important that believers recognize the difference between national Israel and true Israel in both testaments or they may become confused with the unfolding of God’s plan in the New Testament.
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The math tells us who is a Jew, and the empirical evidence of DNA testing confirms it.
Everyone on the planet.
Every dispensationalist also seeks the literal fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham.
Every dispensationalist should be rejoicing uproariously with every Jew at this reality.
Aren't you?
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keras
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Sadly, many do miss this scripture. Why? Because they have been confused by false teachings.
All Israel shall be saved?
Romans 11:26-27, And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
The quotation Paul uses is from Isaiah 59:20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob
When the Bible says that ALL ISRAEL shall be saved in Romans 11:26-27, it refers to only a remnant of the Jewish people and all true Christians, now the Israel of God.
The message to the individual is that he or she must “turn from transgression” to the Lord. There will be a remnant that will turn to him. All of them will be saved. He speaks of the saved remnant as the nation Israel.
Are the Jews still God's people? Yes, but only those who are both ethnic and spiritual Jews. Romans 2:29
Saved Gentiles have also been grafted into the tree and are now co-heirs of the promises of God to Israel. Galatians 3:26-29 The apostle Paul was a remnant Jew...
Romans 11:1, I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. Paul was an ethnic Israelite. Paul says that it's all by God's grace... Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
In other words, by grace through faith, plus or minus nothing, in the Lord Jesus Christ. Only through faith in Jesus can anyone be a child of God. Confirmed by:
Galatians 3:26-29, For you are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then are you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Clearly, Galatians 3:26-29 states that unsaved Jews cannot be Abraham's spiritual seed, nor are they heirs of the promises of God made to Israel in the Bible. The Bible is very plain on this subject that only born-again Christian believers of any ethnicity are heirs of the promises of God. True, righteous Christians from every race, nation and language are God's people; the Israelites of God.
There is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ. So we can divide all humanity into one or other of these two groups:
1/ Every godless unbeliever including the non-Christian Jews and
2/ All Christian believers, Jews and Gentiles.; people from every race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18b, Revelation 5:9-10
God never blesses wicked evildoers. When the Jews rejected Jesus, God gave them into the hands of their enemies, as in 70 AD. Then, for continuing in their disbelief; the many pogroms and the Holocaust. Now they face the third swing of the Sword, Ezekiel 21:1-16
Romans 11:1-2 and 19-23, I say then, Has God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away his people which he foreknew…..You may say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and we Christians stand by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward you, blessing, so keep your faith: otherwise you also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they change their ways, shall be grafted back in: for God is able to graft them in again.
This Scripture plainly teaches that ONLY Jews who believe the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ will be grafted back into the tree as God's people. Jeremiah 12:14-16 proves this.
God cut off Judah in 586 BC for their continuous and stiffnecked rebellion against His Word, even killing the prophets.
God still loves His people, His true people who obey Him, and any Jew can be grafted back into the tree, but all Christ-rejecting Jews are NOT GOD'S PEOPLE. The Parable of the Vineyard shows how the apostate, ethnic Jewish people have lost their status. Matthew 21:33-46, Luke 19:27
Less than .025% of the Jews living in Israel today profess to be a Christian. Only a fool thinks that God loves the apostate, atheistic, gay pride, Christ rejecting Jews. These types are NOT God's people.
So only the saved Jews are part of God's people, but most are saved Gentiles. Only believers in Jesus Christ can claim to be heirs of the promises of God originally given to Israel, but now applicable to every faithful Christian.
Galatians 3:29 proclaims this truth...And if you be Christ's, then are you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. Romans 8:16-17
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thomas_t
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Hi Gal
Messianic Jews stay Jews. They are, at the same time, Christians and Jews.
And all Israel refers to the group level. As Bible says... they are an enemy of the Gospel.
Hi Sovereign,
Israel will be saved (yes, future tense). Throughout Romans chapters 9 till 11, there's a you (the Christians) and there's a they. If Christians are the you, they can't be the they at the same time. That's grammar. The they is Israel, I did read beginning of chapter 9 again.
Paul was even sad because the Israelites (sic) were not saved, see Romans 9:2-4. Yet they were called Israelites by Paul - just contrary to what you say.
* All Israel is an enemy to the Gospel (Romans 11:28). The remnant is not.
* All Israel is saved for being linked to the forefathers (Romans 11:28). The remnant, in contrast, is saved for believing Christ and accepting the gift of the cross.
Thomas
EDITED 2*
Thank you.
The comparison is wrong. When you tell me I'm not German because you think I'm not holy enough... and when you go on trying to convince people that others should have the privileges of being German instead of me... then it gets aggressive. As a German I can live here in peace and work. It's like profiting from a promise.
Gentile faithful people never had it to begin with.
You don't want to call them Christians, yet they are. That was my point.
no, to both sentences.
Messianic Jews stay Jews. They are, at the same time, Christians and Jews.
And all Israel refers to the group level. As Bible says... they are an enemy of the Gospel.
Hi Sovereign,
I'm just trying to imagine how it would come across to me if someone comes up saying "Germany has no right to call themselves Germany!" It would sound ridiculous to me.
Israel will be saved (yes, future tense). Throughout Romans chapters 9 till 11, there's a you (the Christians) and there's a they. If Christians are the you, they can't be the they at the same time. That's grammar. The they is Israel, I did read beginning of chapter 9 again.
Paul was even sad because the Israelites (sic) were not saved, see Romans 9:2-4. Yet they were called Israelites by Paul - just contrary to what you say.
true Israel is more. The country + the other Jews.
you failed to show that all the children of God are "Israel". Israel is Israel.
yes. However you seem to be equating the remnant with all Israel. Which is false.
* All Israel is an enemy to the Gospel (Romans 11:28). The remnant is not.
* All Israel is saved for being linked to the forefathers (Romans 11:28). The remnant, in contrast, is saved for believing Christ and accepting the gift of the cross.
Thomas
EDITED 2*
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sovereigngrace
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The first time we encounter the whole tension between the natural children of Abraham and true spiritual children of Abraham in the New Testament comes in Matthew 3. There, John the Baptist is approached by the religious Pharisees and Sadducees, looking to be baptized. As usual, the religious Jews came flaunting their racial and religious credentials.
Matthew 3:7–11 records: “when he (John) saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.”
John skillfully and bravely bursts this religious bubble, demonstrating that God was not limited to race or natural genetics when it came to the offspring of Abraham. In fact, he showed how God was able to raise up children of Abraham out of the stones. This was the beginning of a protracted assault upon this religious spirit in the New Testament pages. John was careful to link the validity of claiming Abraham as one’s father to that of “repentance.” This shows the spiritual sense of the title in the New Testament setting. A repentant sinner is someone who has taken ownership of their own sin, has humbled themselves before God, received forgiveness, has turned from their sin and has (as a result) entered into intimacy with God. These were the “fruits meet for repentance” John was looking for. But this was a place the self-righteous Pharisees and Sadducees were not willing to go.
It is also notable in this interaction that John was careful to point the religious to Jesus Christ for salvation. Without Him, there is no hope, no salvation and no eternal life. Without Him, there are no grounds to claim Abraham as their father. It would be wise for our Dispensationalist brethren to take note of John’s comments.
Our Savior is also seen challenging the Jewish leaders of His day, in John 8:32, saying, “ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
To which they responded, “We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?” (v 33).
Jesus replied, “I know that ye are Abraham's seed (obviously speaking naturally); but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father” (vv 37-38).
The Jews then boasted, “Abraham is our father” (v39).
Christ responds to this misguided boast of these hypocrites, saying, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant [or slave] of sin. And the servant [or slave] abideth not in the house for ever: but the son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father” (John 8:34-38).
These religious Jews had no revelation of their own innate sin. They were depending upon their own self-righteousness. Little did they know it, but man’s only deliverer from sin was standing in their midst. Every man since Adam is born with original sin and therefore stands completely guilty before a righteous God. In the first Adam (the first nature) all are sinners and therefore destined to lost eternity. Jews and Gentiles approach God on the same grounds being collectively blighted with the same disfigurement – sin. They consequently require the same cure (the only medicine for this affliction) – the blood of Jesus. All men are on a level playing field when it comes to birth. All are equally required to submit to the exact same requirements – faith in Christ and repentance towards God.
Christ responded to the ignorance of the Jewish leaders: “If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it” (vv 39-44).
What He was telling them was: if you truly were Abraham’s children then your life and conduct would be like him and his. He was telling them that behavior reveals identity. He goes even further, He informs them that the evidence of them being true children of Abraham is demonstrated by them loving Him. This is the litmus test of who is a true child of Abraham and what it is to be part of God’s chosen people.
Secondly, He identifies their true father as Satan. This would have been explosive and offensive to these proud religiously Jewish leaders. Jesus demonstrated that favor with Him didn’t come through natural pedigree but rather spiritual pedigree. Those Jews who rejected God’s offer of salvation were not under blessing but under a curse. They were not in any way considered as God’s chosen people. They were children of the devil and they were heading to hell.
If the modern-day Futurist were in this position, they would likely have embraced these same religious charlatans, and lauded them as “God’s chosen people.” This shows the degree of deception that has infiltrated evangelical Protestantism since the introduction of Dispensationalism in 1830. The truth has been subtly and sharply turned on its head.
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thomas_t
Blessings Collector
We agree in the fact that Jesus is the only way to salvation.
We agree that the religious lears of back then were wrong. Jesus told everything about it.
The leaders were wrong, yet the people remained Israel. Israeli leaders have been wrong nearly all the time. However, Israel remained Israel through the ages.
German leaders were also criminals - and I'm not talking about Hitler alone. But thanks to God, Germany has a good fate by now (still being Germany, btw.).
We agree that the religious lears of back then were wrong. Jesus told everything about it.
The leaders were wrong, yet the people remained Israel. Israeli leaders have been wrong nearly all the time. However, Israel remained Israel through the ages.
German leaders were also criminals - and I'm not talking about Hitler alone. But thanks to God, Germany has a good fate by now (still being Germany, btw.).
You hate dispensationalism. I basically don't know anything about it (when there is a conflict between literal and metaphoric interpretation... I favor the literal one the moment it makes any sense). Where is the link to the topic in question?
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This is a lot of emotive language that has nothing to do with what I'd said.
I'm not speaking of any other Israels except what are in the Bible. Geopolitical Israel is excluded from the discussion (in my mind) as they aren't a group that were written about (they didn't exist in the contextual time period). I'm only referring to identity. Nothing more. And, as I said, if I had a son named "Moses", I'd hope he'd be level-headed enough to not get hurt if someone were to say to him that they hope he realizes he's not the same Moses the Bible is referring to. I haven't said anything about any modern-day person (or people group) especially about them not being "holy enough" because they aren't the topic of discussion (it's confusing enough speaking of who is Israel in biblical context).
I'm not speaking of any other Israels except what are in the Bible. Geopolitical Israel is excluded from the discussion (in my mind) as they aren't a group that were written about (they didn't exist in the contextual time period). I'm only referring to identity. Nothing more. And, as I said, if I had a son named "Moses", I'd hope he'd be level-headed enough to not get hurt if someone were to say to him that they hope he realizes he's not the same Moses the Bible is referring to. I haven't said anything about any modern-day person (or people group) especially about them not being "holy enough" because they aren't the topic of discussion (it's confusing enough speaking of who is Israel in biblical context).
And you wish to deflect from the fact that "they" (the faithful remnant that includes - as only a few examples - Mary, the mother of Jesus; Peter; Andrew; Saul/Paul; John the Baptist) belong to biblical Israel. My reason for avoiding the label "Christian" is that's a modern-day term (and I'm trying to keep the discussion in context). My only guess is that you wish to avoid the term "Israelite" for people in this group is because it throws off your adamant stance that "All Israel is an enemy to the Gospel" which is strange, to me, considering how tightly you cling to that (but then seem to get offended for the modern-day geopolitical Israelites and how they're not considered as the group the Bible is written about). Who would want others to fight for their right to be included in a group that person considers enemies of any kind? 
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keras
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Thomas t, Your determination to keep the Jewish state of Israel as special people of God, has led you down a crooked path.
People do remain the ethnicity they were born into, however people do emigrate and become citizens of another country. As the large proportion of the citizens of Israel have done. Russian, Ethiopian, American, etc.
NONE of the citizens of Israel have verifiable ancestry back to Jacob/Judah.
That Israel has been helped by God, to become established and to win their wars, is for God's purposes, I believe to have a visible entity called Israel; while He works with the true Israelites; His faithful Christian believers, scattered around the world.
Those true Israelites, the Overcomers for Him are grafted into the Tree of Life, they are what Paul called Gentiles. [non Jews]
Once they were far off, but now in union with Christ; brought near......Ephesians 2:13
But the prophesied fate of all of God's enemies and Jesus rejecters, is well Written in the Bible. You don't see it because you don't want to; it conflicts with you beliefs.
I suggest you do a lot more study to find out what will really happen, what God actually says He will do for His faithful people.
People do remain the ethnicity they were born into, however people do emigrate and become citizens of another country. As the large proportion of the citizens of Israel have done. Russian, Ethiopian, American, etc.
NONE of the citizens of Israel have verifiable ancestry back to Jacob/Judah.
That Israel has been helped by God, to become established and to win their wars, is for God's purposes, I believe to have a visible entity called Israel; while He works with the true Israelites; His faithful Christian believers, scattered around the world.
Those true Israelites, the Overcomers for Him are grafted into the Tree of Life, they are what Paul called Gentiles. [non Jews]
Once they were far off, but now in union with Christ; brought near......Ephesians 2:13
But the prophesied fate of all of God's enemies and Jesus rejecters, is well Written in the Bible. You don't see it because you don't want to; it conflicts with you beliefs.
I suggest you do a lot more study to find out what will really happen, what God actually says He will do for His faithful people.
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thomas_t
Blessings Collector
I don't think so. You want Israel not to be Israel. It's an attack on their identity, I think. Israel belongs to Jewish identity. The moment you say Israel is no longer Israel you try to also strip them from the promises made to them. This isn't fair, in my opinion.
"are"...
There is but one!Besides Israel, we have the "Israel of God" which seems to be another entity. Mentioned once in the Bible.
in your mind, yeah. There are prophecies telling the world that God would bring them back to Israel. As happened in 1948.
no, I don't. Thre's nothing wrong with the fact they belong to Israel. There's nothing wrong with calling them Israelites. As I've said on multiple occasions: I think they belong to both groups: Israel and the church.
it's a biblical stance Romans 11:28.
you say they don't qualify for being Israel because you seem to be wanting to apply this label to people who are faithful believers in Jesus only.
this thread is about replacement theology. Replacing Israel with the church. So Israel is the topic.
---
Hi Keras again,
I think it normal to ask people in here if they could stop redefining Israel. It would be blurring the lines when it comes to Biblcal terminology.
I stay with my opinion: Israel is Israel, and the Christians are the Christians. Messianics belong to both groups.
Thomas
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I was referring to the faithful biblical Israelite remnant that you repeatedly insist on calling "Christian" (or, sometimes, "Messianic") when we know they were from the Israelite assembly (people like Mary, the mother of Jesus; Elizabeth, the mother of John the Baptizer; Peter; Andrew; Saul/Paul; the 3,000 baptized at Pentecost,etc). Where's your zeal in protecting *their* right to claim their identity as "Israel"? Why insist on calling them "Messianic Jews"? That's not a biblical identity. ISTM that writes the key characters of the story right out of the narrative by doing that.
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Correction: I want biblical Israel to be recognized as what the Bible is referring to (in context) and for a modern-day geopolitical nation to be left out of the narrative. The Bible wasn't written to anyone of our time (but that doesn't mean it can't be used "for" us).thomas t said:
The promises were for Christ Jesus - Abraham's seed. No people group can claim that "all nations will be blessed" through them. That's a claim only worthy for Christ.
Well - you do have a point there. At this time it seems we're only going in circles. To conclude (right now, any way)....to sum up what my point has been all throughout this thread.....it really seems to me that the people that are doing any "replacing" are those that are substituting biblical Israel (that found their fulfillment in Christ) with the secular geopolitical group that's identified by a location on the map. I don't believe in "replacement"......I believe in "continuation". I believe God - all along - wanted ALL people.....all nations....to come to worship Him (that was so in the very beginning....and is so now). He never desired to turn anyone away or exclude anyone. God doesn't show favoritism (Deut 10:17; Acts 10:34; Acts 15:9; Gal 2:6; Eph 6:9; James 2:1)
Adam Maarschalk does a far more eloquent job at expressing this - here.
Quoting from link: Consider the progression of Biblical revelation regarding the promise recorded in Genesis 12:3:
[1] It was first made by God to Abraham alone: “It will be through you [Abraham], that all the families of the earth will be blessed.”
[2] It was repeated again in Genesis 22:18, and this time expanded to include his offspring: “And through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed Me.”
[3] In Acts 3:25-26, the apostle Peter, speaking to a Jewish crowd in Jerusalem, is clear in identifying Abraham’s offspring and the means of blessing for the nations:
And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.’ When God raised up His servant, He sent Him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”
It’s Jesus who is Abraham’s offspring, and He blesses the nations, beginning with the proclamation of the gospel to Jews in the first century.
[4] The apostle Paul, in Galatians 3:7-8, declared that Jesus’ followers are Abraham’s offspring too:
“Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: ‘All nations will be blessed through you.’”
According to the terms laid out by Matt Slick and John Hagee, the apostles Peter and Paul were guilty of teaching replacement theology. Yet according to Peter and Paul, when it comes to God’s plans, purpose, and promises, Slick and Hagee are seeking to replace Jesus and His church with a geopolitical nation located in the Middle East. It’s highly ironic that there are Christians who are comfortable with the idea of replacing Christ (their Savior) with a mere political nation, but are up in arms with those who allegedly replace Israel with the church.
Galatians 3, incidentally, goes on to make the point even more strongly that all of God’s promises are wrapped up first in Jesus and second in His followers. Paul says this in verse 16:
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.” (Galatians 3:28-29) ~ Why I Abandoned Replacement Theology
[1] It was first made by God to Abraham alone: “It will be through you [Abraham], that all the families of the earth will be blessed.”
[2] It was repeated again in Genesis 22:18, and this time expanded to include his offspring: “And through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed Me.”
[3] In Acts 3:25-26, the apostle Peter, speaking to a Jewish crowd in Jerusalem, is clear in identifying Abraham’s offspring and the means of blessing for the nations:
And you are heirs of the prophets and of the covenant God made with your fathers. He said to Abraham, ‘Through your offspring all peoples on earth will be blessed.’ When God raised up His servant, He sent Him first to you to bless you by turning each of you from your wicked ways.”
It’s Jesus who is Abraham’s offspring, and He blesses the nations, beginning with the proclamation of the gospel to Jews in the first century.
[4] The apostle Paul, in Galatians 3:7-8, declared that Jesus’ followers are Abraham’s offspring too:
“Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: ‘All nations will be blessed through you.’”
According to the terms laid out by Matt Slick and John Hagee, the apostles Peter and Paul were guilty of teaching replacement theology. Yet according to Peter and Paul, when it comes to God’s plans, purpose, and promises, Slick and Hagee are seeking to replace Jesus and His church with a geopolitical nation located in the Middle East. It’s highly ironic that there are Christians who are comfortable with the idea of replacing Christ (their Savior) with a mere political nation, but are up in arms with those who allegedly replace Israel with the church.
Galatians 3, incidentally, goes on to make the point even more strongly that all of God’s promises are wrapped up first in Jesus and second in His followers. Paul says this in verse 16:
“The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say ‘and to seeds,’ meaning many people, but ‘and to your seed,’ meaning one person, who is Christ.”
Jesus is singularly the recipient of all of God’s promises, and He extends those promises to His followers (verse 29), who are all one in Him regardless of ethnicity, societal status, or gender (verse 28):There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.” (Galatians 3:28-29) ~ Why I Abandoned Replacement Theology
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sovereigngrace
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So, did the new covenant change anything in regard to the ethnic focus of God’s favor? Does race matter today under God’s new eternal arrangement? Does natural Jews continue to enjoy a favored or superior place under the new covenant like they did in Old Testament times? Or, is God no respecter of person today and treats all men everywhere the same, regardless of whether they are Jews or Gentiles? Does the old covenant have any further use?
The problem is: you are stuck under the old covenant arrangement. Can I remind you? It has been long abolished. Your biased Zionist focus, with your unhealthy fixation on national Israel, is roundly rebuked throughout New Testament Scriptures. The apartheid you advocate runs contrary to God’s heart for this new covenant era. It is shown to be contrary to New Testament truth. In fact, it is the reverse of God’s plan for the nations.
In Acts 10, God uses a vision of unclean food to help the apostle Peter see that in Christ there is no longer any spiritual distinction between Jew and Gentile. God now accepts both equally on the same terms into His kingdom. Peter responds to this great monumental revelation in Acts 10:34-36: “I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all).”
The word interpreted “respecter” in the King James Version is the Greek word prosopoleptes which simply means: one exhibiting partiality. In fact, the New King James Version renders this, “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.”
The Revised Standard Version states: “Truly I perceive that God shows no partiality, but in every nation any one who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.” The New Living Translation: “I see very clearly that God doesn't show partiality. In every nation he accepts those who fear him and do what is right.” Today’s English Version similarly states, “I now realize that it is true that God treats everyone on the same basis. Whoever fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him, no matter what race he belongs to.” New International Version states: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.”
This reading makes it clear: God is no respecter of persons. This is not strange or outlandish; it is the constant theme of the New Testament. The Gospel is no longer restricted to the physical race of Israel but it has been opened up to embrace all nations. This means that God doesn’t accept anyone based on their nationality, color or status but rather on whether or not they fear Him. When it comes to salvation he looks at the inward rather than the outward. Those that fear him and walk righteously “in every nation” are now “accepted with him.” He is assuredly “Lord of all.” He has made all nations, tribes and kindreds the focus of His favor today. It is wrong to elevate one nation over another.
Messianic Jew Jakob Jocz cogently observes: “God is no respecter of persons. Before Him, the Holy One, men stand not as Jews and Gentiles but as sinners who are in need of grace. Jesus the prophet may be speaking to the Gentiles; but Jesus the Son of God speaks to mankind. Jesus the martyr may be appealing to some and not to others; but Jesus the Lamb of God challenges the whole human race. God’s word is one word, and God’s way is one if it is the way of God” (The Jewish People and Jesus Christ).
The Jews no longer enjoy a favored or exclusive status. Sadly, many modern-day Christian fail to get their head round this great and seismic immense new covenant change.
I Corinthians 7:17 declares, “Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing"
Galatians 5:2 declares, “if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing."
Galatians 5:5 declares, "For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love."
Galatians 6:15 reinforces that, saying, “For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.”
Colossians 3:11 declares, “there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."
Romans 2:25 tells us: “if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.”
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sovereigngrace
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Dispensationalists are quick to speak on behalf of their opponents and slow to listen to how their brethren actually understand the whole dynamic between Israel and the Church. They commonly disparagingly throw the “Replacement Theology” charge at those they disagree with. They also deem their opponents as believing in ‘Supersessionism Theology’ (from the Latin supersedere: ‘to be superior to’). Dispensationalists allege that their evangelical opponents believe (1) the Church has replaced ethnic Israel and that (2) God has no further future plans for the nation of Israel. They claim such without any factual or fair basis for doing so.
Dispensationalists create a straw man either through genuine ignorance, because they don’t really get what Covenant Theology teaches, or as a deliberate willful attempt to twist, smear and discredit their brethren who believe that God has only ever had one people from the beginning. Regardless, their charge is a logical fallacy. Despite being robustly challenged and repeatedly corrected, many continue to hurl this depreciatory slur in an attempt to justify their own questionable teaching. It is employed by most to intentionally misrepresent their opponent’s position. When all is said and done, this only serves to expose the weakness of the Dispensational position rather than carry any real, valid or accurate theological credence.
A strawman argument occurs when one misrepresents another’s argument in order to make it easier to discredit it. It involves a picture being presented that doesn’t accurately reflect the beliefs of the one you are debating. By exaggerating, distorting, or fabricating someone’s position, it makes it much easier to present your own position as plausible and logical. But this type of underhand tactic only serves to prevent open, honest, profitable, rational and objective discussion.
Those who believe there has only ever been one spiritual people from the start do not hold to “Replacement Theology,” but rather ‘Remnant Theology’ meaning there is a continuity between God’s people in the Old and New Testament. Other terms describe the same position like ‘Inclusion Theology’ and ‘Expansion Theology’. Some use comparable expressions like ‘Addition Theology’ or ‘Fulfilment Theology’. Another lesser-used expression is ‘Messianic Fulfillment Theology’. Regardless of which one of these phrases is preferred, its advocates believe that the New Testament Church (assembly) is not a replacement of Israel, neither is it a new Israel, but it is an extension and continuation of true faithful Israel. This is supported by the fact that the inception of the new covenant didn’t mark the end of the Abrahamic lineage of faith but rather the enlargement of the same.
God has not ditched old Israel and started over again with a new Israel (Replacement Theology), neither has He split His covenant people into two different groups (Separation theology), but rather He has “grafted” the Gentiles into the one historic believing people of God – true Israel. Romans 11:17 tells us that God has incorporated the Gentiles into the elect of God. This integration is clearly not replacement, it is addition. It is a combining of peoples. There is manifestly one unbroken unitary spiritual line of elect from Adam right up until today.
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thomas_t
Blessings Collector
Hi Gal,
Israel is also identified by their unique history. During the last 2000 years, Jews have been persecuted for being Jews. Especially in Germany, now they have their own country. Praise God!
But I'm not substituting Israel. Israel never has been anything else than Israel.
Basically, you try to replace Israel with Jesus-followers only and, ironically, claim to never have replaced anything. But this is wrong. Israel was Israel before - also in the Bible. The moment you say it is someone else now, it's replacement.
Why is it so so shocking for you if I want to put emphasis on Israel remaining a Jewish entity. As the Bible always said.
---
Hi J
---
Hi SG,
Of course the new covenant counts. The all Israel that will be saved according to Romans 11:26... is an entity on the group level, in my opinion. If a Jew doesn't accept Jesus, they will be unsaved in a saved community. It's like being poor in rich America, which isn't very nice, I suppose.
Christians, when they had the power, always have treated Jews in a bad manner, if my view if history is right.
Luther, a No.1 Christian, also was a No.1 hater of Jews. Later here in Germany, many Christians supported Hitler. I'm speaking of Jesus-believers.
In contrast... Jews never supported the killing of Christians during the last 1900 years (fell free to prove me wrong).
So there has to be something to create an equilibrium. To my knowledge, Jews never persecuted Gentile Christians - you are free to prove me wrong here also.
Given all the "Christian" persecution of innocent Jews, it's only fair that God will save Israel as a whole, I think.
When you count out the Jew, you also count out the persecution they suffered from, in my opinion.
for (1) it's "The Church has never REPLACED Israel, it always WAS, and Remains Israel..." see post #91 of this thread...
for (2) it's "I want [...] modern-day geopolitical nation to be left out of the narrative." see post #237 of this thread.
Replacement theology is more harmful than you think it is, Sovereign. The moment they say the church is Israel, they replace it. That's the replacement.
I don't advocate apartheid, as you suggest. Israel is still Israel, that's what Bible teaches. Simply.
I don't have any "depreciatory slur", as you may suggest. I neither misrepresented anything nor created a strawman.
Thomas
I've always said they belong to Israel. However, Israel isn't limited to them. Israel are all Jews.
you think Bible doesn't refer to Israel. It does. You want Israel to be counted out. In your opinion they are not Israel and that's how you try to strip them from their identity of being Israel.
There are many promises. Here, in Romans 11:28, we have one for enemies of the Gospel. Not Christ.
I appreciate you being able to rethink your standpoint, it's a rare virtue.
biblical Israel is Jewish Israel. You call them secular. I call them Jewish. They do have many religious Jews among them, indeed.
Israel is also identified by their unique history. During the last 2000 years, Jews have been persecuted for being Jews. Especially in Germany, now they have their own country. Praise God!
But I'm not substituting Israel. Israel never has been anything else than Israel.
Basically, you try to replace Israel with Jesus-followers only and, ironically, claim to never have replaced anything. But this is wrong. Israel was Israel before - also in the Bible. The moment you say it is someone else now, it's replacement.
Why is it so so shocking for you if I want to put emphasis on Israel remaining a Jewish entity. As the Bible always said.
---
Hi J
Bible does - not math. Bible only please. Read Romans 2:29.
---
Hi SG,
Of course the new covenant counts. The all Israel that will be saved according to Romans 11:26... is an entity on the group level, in my opinion. If a Jew doesn't accept Jesus, they will be unsaved in a saved community. It's like being poor in rich America, which isn't very nice, I suppose.
Christians, when they had the power, always have treated Jews in a bad manner, if my view if history is right.
Luther, a No.1 Christian, also was a No.1 hater of Jews. Later here in Germany, many Christians supported Hitler. I'm speaking of Jesus-believers.
In contrast... Jews never supported the killing of Christians during the last 1900 years (fell free to prove me wrong).
So there has to be something to create an equilibrium. To my knowledge, Jews never persecuted Gentile Christians - you are free to prove me wrong here also.
Given all the "Christian" persecution of innocent Jews, it's only fair that God will save Israel as a whole, I think.
When you count out the Jew, you also count out the persecution they suffered from, in my opinion.
need a quote?
for (1) it's "The Church has never REPLACED Israel, it always WAS, and Remains Israel..." see post #91 of this thread...
for (2) it's "I want [...] modern-day geopolitical nation to be left out of the narrative." see post #237 of this thread.
Replacement theology is more harmful than you think it is, Sovereign. The moment they say the church is Israel, they replace it. That's the replacement.
I don't advocate apartheid, as you suggest. Israel is still Israel, that's what Bible teaches. Simply.
I don't have any "depreciatory slur", as you may suggest. I neither misrepresented anything nor created a strawman.
When Israel wasn't faithful... it remained true Israel though.
Thomas
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