Adam's Sin

RaymondG said:

Yes and no. Adam, used in the story of the garden is synonymous with Mankind......and is not a Pronoun. Therefore mankind ate/is eating this fruit.....with includes you and me....therefore we now sit outside the garden trying to make our way back in...... In comes the redemption of Adam.

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How do you deal with Jesus talking about Abel as a real man?

David Neos said:

No, we are not guilty of Adam's sin but we inherit the consequences.

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The consequence is death. We all die.

twin.spin said:

1) a cute little innocent baby who has never sinned

A:There is no such thing according to God's Word the Bible:

Genesis 6:5
Ecclesiastes 7:20
Psalm 14:2-4
Matthew 15:19
John 3:6
John 6:63
Psalm 51:5
Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.​

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Poor interpretation. The Hebrew is: in sin did my MOTHER conceive me. David’s mother was thought to have committed adultery in his conception.

2) a cute little innocent baby who has never sinned required baptism.

A: God's Word which is the truth says:

1) Jesus' commanded to make disciples of all nations (Matthew 28:19) ... babies are part of "all"
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Babies cannot sin

chilehed said:

Because of the effects of Original Sin.

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The main effect was knowledge and death.

Dorothy Mae said:

How do you deal with Jesus talking about Abel as a real man?

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I Believe Jesus spoke of spiritual Matters.....in ways that, hearing and seeing, we think we understand....but we do not......... "lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

These matters are revealed in secret to those able to bear it and have time to be still and know.

The Adam thing is a bit easier to grasp, as one can easily look at the translations of Adam, and deferential the nouns from the pronouns.

It's not that the sin of Adam is imputed to us-it's that the condition or state of his sin has become ours- we're born into an unjust state, sinful because it opposes and is out of sync with God and creation and His purposes for man. We're born ignorant of Him, without the "knowledge of God" (let alone communion with Him), the knowledge that Jesus came to definitively reveal, not just reveal to our heads but to our hearts, so that we may turn and leave our lost and prideful and rebellious state behind and enter the communion with God that we were made for, that love and justice themselves demand. "Apart from me you can do nothing". John 15:5. Apart from Him sin is inevitable for us.

Dorothy Mae said:

Sin nature is not in the Bible.

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Ephesians 2:3
Among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

eleos1954 said:

Ephesians 2:3
Among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

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Is, do you think, AI sinful "by nature" ? It seems some posts are from AI, or might be... or worse ?

eleos1954 said:

Ephesians 2:3
Among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

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That's a figure of speech. Human nature has not changed, but we've become weakened, suspicious of a God we might not even believe in, uncertain whether or not He might keep us from obtaining any and everything we might otherwise want if we were to really, fully acknowledge and heed/obey Him as our God. It's a family tradition, this rebellion-that we're here to break with the help of grace. The chief aspect of the state known as original sin is separation or alienation from God, the only and true source of our life and righteousness or anything else we may have. We're broken, unable to remain in a perfectly ordered or just state ourselves, as we were created to be, without that relationship.

fhansen said:

That's a figure of speech. Human nature has not changed, but we've become weakened, suspicious of a God we might not even believe in, uncertain whether or not He might keep us from obtaining any and everything we might want if we were to really, fully acknowledge and heed/obey Him. It's a family tradition, this rebellion-that we're here to break with the help of grace.

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We are all born with sin in us ... don't know how it can get anymore natural than that.

Psalm 51:5

Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

New Living Translation
For I was born a sinner— yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.

eleos1954 said:

We are all born with sin in us ... don't know how it can get anymore natural than that.

Psalm 51:5

Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, And in sin my mother conceived me.

New Living Translation
For I was born a sinner— yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.

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We're born in a state of sin, essentially alienation from God. We're not born with sin in us, with a changed nature. "Original sin" defines something missing in us, not something added, as in a new nature. Either way we're compromised; our battle with sin now made difficult.

fhansen said:

We're born in a state of sin, essentially alienation from God. We're not born with sin in us, with a changed nature. "Original sin" defines something missing in us, not something added, as in a new nature. Either way we're compromised; our battle with sin now made difficult.

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I would disagree ... Adam and Eve ... created without sin ... because they did sin corrupted their flesh ... that is ... their human nature was changed (corrupted) from what was originally created perfect ... and that corrupted nature passed on through them (their seed) infecting mankind from birth (at conception actually).

Consider the nature of Christ. While He became truly man, “made like unto his brethren” (Heb 2:17), he did not inherit the original corruption with which we are born with (Heb 4:15).

We can't get rid of our flesh ... that is why we are born again (spiritually) through Christ ... that is why after resurrected we will receive new bodies.

Either way we're compromised; our battle with sin now made difficult.

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Yep ... certainly so.

Tree of Life said:

Is the guilt of Adam's sin imputed to his offspring (us)? Why or why not?

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No, Adam's sin is his alone and my sin is mine alone. We suffer from the consequence though

Not really understanding the question. Well before the fall.. no need for Christ. What was ours by a lie and sin we handed it over to Satan that then became the god of this world "And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor; it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to." Lol.. Satan lies yet says "it was given to me"

So yes we all pay for suffer for..how ever one wishes to word it.. the sin of Adam and Eve. But PRAISE GOD! Christ came AMEN?

I believe this thread has been concluded just in the first page when someone cited Romans 5. If we read through the Bible we will see more descriptions of this very thing. We, before coming to God, are natural born enemies of God before coming to the cross: Romans 5:10

eleos1954 said:

Ephesians 2:3
Among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.

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This is speaking obviously of adults. Children are not living in the passions of the flesh and neither are babies. They are not carrying out the desires of the body that are listed in the bible. The nature that this speaks of is the character that developes over time as a result of evil choices from the age of awareness of moral law. Babies cannot carry out any sin. This is why Jesus said the kingdom of Heaven is filled with those who are like the children.

Swan7 said:

I believe this thread has been concluded just in the first page when someone cited Romans 5. If we read through the Bible we will see more descriptions of this very thing. We are natural born enemies of God before coming to the cross: Romans 5:10

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Jesus did not say the little children coming to him are enemies of his or the cross but that the kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these.

fhansen said:

We're born in a state of sin, essentially alienation from God. We're not born with sin in us, with a changed nature. "Original sin" defines something missing in us, not something added, as in a new nature. Either way we're compromised; our battle with sin now made difficult.

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When JEsus spoke of the little children, he did not say they were born into a state of sin. He did not say they are alienated from God either. He spoke well of them as little children.

RaymondG said:

I Believe Jesus spoke of spiritual Matters.....in ways that, hearing and seeing, we think we understand....but we do not......... "lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."

These matters are revealed in secret to those able to bear it and have time to be still and know.

The Adam thing is a bit easier to grasp, as one can easily look at the translations of Adam, and deferential the nouns from the pronouns.

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Well, I asked how you deal with it and you told me. I think simply believing the words he said in their obvious meaning is better.

Is the other man in the sentence where Jesus refered to Abel also merely spiritual? That is, Zechariah whom they murdered....was he also only a spiritual reference and never a real man who was really murdered? Just wondering.

Dorothy Mae said:

Jesus did not say the little children coming to him are enemies of his or the cross but that the kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as these.

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Nor did I say that. Please refrain from twisting words, thanks.