Adam's Sin

[Not David]

I think when he uses the word "condemnation" that signifies guilt. Without the guilty charge there is no condemnation.

Condemnation does not mean inheriting the guilt.

 

[questionman]

Yes, if we read the previous 4 chapters, Paul indeed does not confirm universalism. What is certain is we are all born humans. What is certain is not everyone is born again. With that in mind the 'all' and 'many' make sense.

Except he does not say "all" related to condemnation and "many" related to justification. He uses both terms with both results and emphasizes the connection "so then as through ... even so through"

Whatever Paul meant, he meant both outcomes happen in the same exact way.

 

[Mattin91]

First, Adam and Eve had been given what are called preternatural gifts from God, which included immortality. They had only one commandment to obey.

The fruit Eve saw was not identified. She decided of her own free will to eat it since "it was good for food." By ignoring God's command, she sinned and gave the fruit to Adam who also ate it. Then Adam tried to shift the blame on her... which didn't work.

Bible scholars have tried to locate the physical Garden of Eden based on place names in the Bible but since a few rivers cannot be identified and one may have dried up, there is nothing conclusive yet.

The sin of our first parents is passed on to all. Catholics call it Original Sin.

 

[Not David]

Lets forget about universalism and just keep our bibles open.

You used a verse to answer the question of whether all was affected by Adam's sin... Yet that same verse stated that all were affected by Jesus' Sacrifice. Therefore, since Jesus sacrifice only saves a few.....it should all follow that Adams sin, only damned a few.....or a little more than a few....but not all as well.

So Romans 5 cannot be used to say the we are all guilty because of Adam.....unless you also say that we are all saved because of the sacrifice....being that, as you stated, a direct comparison was made.

So we need a different set of scripture to back the idea that all were guilty because of Adams sin.

Interesting. If one would say we all become guilty for what the first Adam did, why would not it mean all are "proclaimed blameless" for what the second Adam did?

 

[Mattin91]

Condemnation does not mean inheriting the guilt.

Guilt comes before confessing sins. If I feel no guilt then I am not living correctly. I become less human. When a court delivers a guilty verdict, a man is condemned. Not guilty and he is set free.

 

[renniks]

Would that not make babies guilty and sentenced to hell before they even knew what right and wrong was? After all this theology is why infant baptism was such a big deal to people like Martin Luther.

 

[Tree of Life]

Adam and Eve, before the fall, had the Holy Spirit. The Bible doesn't expressly say it, but it explains a lot about how they changed within themselves when they disobeyed God. When they rebelled against God and allied themselves with Satan by following him instead of God, they lost the Holy Spirit, and therefore reverted to their flesh nature which was corrupted by their sin.

This was the amazing thing about the Day of Pentecost. It was the final act to restore believers to where Adam and Eve were - filled with the Holy Spirit and in intimate fellowship with God. (Now, when I say "filled with the Spirit", I mean being controlled by the Spirit, and not some emotional or sensory experience.) This was more than just speaking in tongues. It was a complete restoration of the believers' standing with God.

Conversion to Christ is the restoration of the relationship and fellowship that Adam and Eve had with God before the fall. Paul defines conversion as "having the Holy Spirit" in Galatians 3:2.

So, Adam and Eve had the Holy Spirit, then lost Him through disobedience and siding with Satan. Converted believers regain the Holy Spirit because they side with God against Satan.

That explains how all became sinners because of the rebellion of Adam and Eve. Without the Holy Spirit, sinners are totally in the flesh and have no standing with God. They are totally bound in the works of the flesh as described in Galatians 5. But when a sinner receives Christ, he or she is brought back under the control of the Holy Spirit and lives in the Spirit, with the fruit of the Spirit, and there is a developmental turning away from the works of the flesh toward sanctification and holiness.

What do you think of the question in the OP?

 

[Tree of Life]

Yes and no. Adam, used in the story of the garden is synonymous with Mankind......and is not a Pronoun. Therefore mankind ate/is eating this fruit.....with includes you and me....therefore we now sit outside the garden trying to make our way back in...... In comes the redemption of Adam.

Those who don't believe that Adam was an historical individual need not apply.

 

[Tree of Life]

It is or is not based on the Soteriolical theory the believer subscribes to.


Augustine and Anselm are not how I prefer to think of these things. There is juridicalism in the Bible in the OT and with saint Paul and that sort of thing needs to be covered. But I think a lot of the soteriological theories should be harmonized to get a more complete picture of things kind of like the parable of 8 Blind Sufi wisemen and the Elephant if you have ever heard or read that tale.

Salvation in Christianity - Wikipedia

I'm not seeing an answer here.

 

[Tree of Life]

Wouldn't this be a case supporting the notion that the sin of the first one man, does not affect all, since it is widely believed that the sacrifice of the One Man, in direct comparison, only affects a few?

"All" in Romans 5 is qualified by the important concepts "in Adam" and "in Christ". All "in Adam" are condemned. All "in Christ" are justified.

 

[Tree of Life]

Condemnation does not mean inheriting the guilt.

Are the innocent condemned?

 

[timtams]

No, scripture never states that Adam's guilt is imputed to his offspring. Such a view was unheard of before Augustine.

 

[redleghunter]

You used a verse to answer the question of whether all was affected by Adam's sin... Yet that same verse stated that all were affected by Jesus' Sacrifice. Therefore, since Jesus sacrifice only saves a few.....it should all follow that Adams sin, only damned a few.....or a little more than a few....but not all as well

No that logic does not follow. Here's why:

Yes, if we read the previous 4 chapters, Paul indeed does not confirm universalism. What is certain is we are all born humans. What is certain is not everyone is born again. With that in mind the 'all' and 'many' make sense.

 

[Tree of Life]

No, scripture never states that Adam's guilt is imputed to his offspring. Such a view was unheard of before Augustine.

Romans 5 probably does say that Adam's guilt is imputed to his offspring. Paul says in Romans 5:12 - ἐφʼ ᾧ πάντες ἥμαρτον. This can be rendered: "Because in him all sinned."

 

[redleghunter]

Condemnation does not mean inheriting the guilt.

Then what is the basis of the condemnation?

 

[joshua 1 9]

Is the guilt of Adam's sin imputed to his offspring (us)? Why or why not?

"I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on their children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing loving devotion to a thousand generations of those who love Me and keep My commandments. " (Deut 15:10)

The LORD is slow to anger and abounding in loving devotion, forgiving wrongdoing and rebellion. But He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished; He visits the iniquity of the fathers upon their children to the third and fourth generation.’ (numbers 14:18)

 

[Neogaia777]

Interesting. If one would say we all become guilty for what the first Adam did, why would not it mean all are "proclaimed blameless" for what the second Adam did?

That's what we might or would think, but then again, we're what? "only human"... But only God the Father alone truly knows and can judge for sure, etc...

That's why I think it almost always was only within that one's knowing or knowledge alone...

But that Christ sowed Himself in hope, etc...

God Bless!

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

We have a sin nature ... we inherited from Adam & Eve ... that is it is more natural for us to sin than not too .... each of us are guilty for the sin we each commit and that includes Adam & Eve.

It is the fallen world

 

[Not David]

Guilt comes before confessing sins. If I feel no guilt then I am not living correctly. I become less human. When a court delivers a guilty verdict, a man is condemned. Not guilty and he is set free.

Salvation is more than that. Also, we are guilty for our own sins.

 

[Not David]

Are the innocent condemned?

Yes and no.