A warning about False Teaching in the churches!

NBB said:

Sorry but you are out of it, you say i should separate myself from my mother because she speaks in tongues? can you explain that.

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You are to separate your self from her teaching if you see that what the Word of God says about tongues is truth. If not? Carry on...

Jesus clearly said..



When the Word of God is able to become someone's very life? Then the sparks will fly.

If there is no spark? well...

There must be a flame in one's heart for God's Word to be His disciple.

Anyone can believe and be saved. Not everyone is willing to become a true disciple.

C'est la grace....

genez said:

We have Mormons. We have Jehovah Witnesses. We have all sorts of dogmatically set believers as well. Am I the spiritual sheriff in your town? Enjoy what suites you.We will all stand before Him. Some will be beaming. Others will be ashamed after its too late to repent. Some believers are going to be ashamed when they stand before Him for evaluation. And, there present glory will be their shame.

All I can do is to offer what I do understand the Scriptures teach. Not to convert you if you find it not acceptable. But, to help others who do not know enough yet to avoid what they find does not bear witness to them as being from God. Help them not to be confused by the excuses and reasons they are told.

so be it...

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And what makes you certain that you are not going to be the one chasticed here.
I'm talking about what i have experienced. you talk 'in theory' with an cessationist view no less.

genez said:

You are to separate your self from her teaching if you see that what the Word of God says about tongues is truth. If not? Carry on...

Jesus clearly said..

“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth.
I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." ​

When the Word of God is able to become someone's very life? Then the sparks will fly.

If there is no spark? well...

There must be a flame in one's heart for God's Word to be His disciple.

Anyone can believe and be saved. Not everyone is willing to become a true disciple.

C'est la grace....

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And the bible says Paul spoke in tongues more than anyone, so we should follow some of that example.

NBB said:

And what makes you certain that you are not going to be the one chasticed here.
I'm talking about what i have experienced. you talk 'in theory' with an cessationist view no less.

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Because there would be so much more you could find and understand if you would only hunger for -- above all else-- the Word of God. I am not alone.

genez said:

You are to separate your self from her teaching if you see that what the Word of God says about tongues is truth. If not? Carry on...

Jesus clearly said..

“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth.
I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." ​

When the Word of God is able to become someone's very life? Then the sparks will fly.

If there is no spark? well...

There must be a flame in one's heart for God's Word to be His disciple.

Anyone can believe and be saved. Not everyone is willing to become a true disciple.

C'est la grace....

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I can't believe you are so sure about your interpretation of the bible, that now you are saying me that mother is deviating me from the good path? without knowing anything, i'm without words here. Just because she prays in tongues alone.

NBB said:

And the bible says Paul spoke in tongues more than anyone, so we should follow some of that example.

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Again... Paul said that while tongues were yet serving its intended purpose. He also said that tongues will end at a certain point.


Nothing was said about the gift of teaching and evangelism ending.

When 1 Corinthians was written very little NT Scriptures existed. It was Paul's first epistle. The only epistle to be written before that was the small letter by James. And, possibly the gospel of Matthew.
NT Scripture was just in its infancy when Paul wrote about the temporary gifts will come to an end. The NT was awaiting to be completed. Temporary gifts were given by the Spirit to hold everyone over until the completed NT had come and had been circulated for the church to have.

Until that time arrived God chose to provide a temporary means to cover what was needed until that point was reached.

Prophesy does not only entail telling the future. Its about "forth telling." Prophesy as a gift also entailed speaking forth the Word that was not yet written. Just look at all the prophets of the OT. Their words they spoke later became Scripture after they were spoken!

NBB said:

I can't believe you are so sure about your interpretation of the bible, that now you are saying me that mother is deviating me from the good path? without knowing anything, i'm without words here. Just because she prays in tongues alone.

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I am saying you are where you are right now? Maybe later when you no longer live at home, God will lead to to discover truths that now He does not require of you to accept. Only God can do that. He did it with me when I knew I had to separate from my Jewish parents whom I love in a human way very deeply.

genez said:

We have Mormons. We have Jehovah Witnesses. We have all sorts of dogmatically set believers as well. Am I the spiritual sheriff in your town? Enjoy what suites you.We will all stand before Him. Some will be beaming. Others will be ashamed after its too late to repent. Some believers are going to be ashamed when they stand before Him for evaluation. And, there present glory will be their shame.

All I can do is to offer what I do understand the Scriptures teach. Not to convert you if you find it not acceptable. But, to help others who do not know enough yet to avoid what they find does not bear witness to them as being from God. Help them not to be confused by the excuses and reasons they are told.

so be it...

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I say this in a friendly and respectful manner - if you are going to teach from Scripture, you need to teach from the whole Scripture and not just take selected verses from it to prove a point. We don't make the Scriptures fit what we believe. We fit our belief in what the Scriptures actually say.

For example, if you are going to teach about the proper use of tongues, you need to teach the whole of 1 Corinthians 14, and not just some verses from it.

To accurately teach Scripture you need to do a thorough exegesis of the passage using who, what, where, how, when, and why research questions to determine how a reader would understand it at the time it was written.

Hermeneutics is determining, from the exegesis, whether, and/or how it can be understood by 21st Century readers. There may be differences according to environment, history, language, and culture.

The Bible is clearly written in a way that even a child can understand it. There is no mystery subtext interpretation of what was written. Good accurate exegesis and intelligent hermeneutics enables one to add two and two to get four, rather than two plus two equals five.

genez said:

You are to separate your self from her teaching if you see that what the Word of God says about tongues is truth. If not? Carry on...

Jesus clearly said..

“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth.
I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
“‘a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." ​

When the Word of God is able to become someone's very life? Then the sparks will fly.

If there is no spark? well...

There must be a flame in one's heart for God's Word to be His disciple.

Anyone can believe and be saved. Not everyone is willing to become a true disciple.

C'est la grace....

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But 1 Corinthians 14 is the truth about tongues.
And 1 Corinthians 13:10 is not true about tongues at all, unless one says that the gift will cease after the church age is over.

genez said:

Again... Paul said that while tongues were yet serving its intended purpose. He also said that tongues will end at a certain point.

Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease;
where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge
(the gift of knowledge, not simply knowledge), it will pass away. For we
know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes,
what is in part disappears." 1 Cor 13:8-10​

Nothing was said about the gift of teaching and evangelism ending.

When 1 Corinthians was written very little NT Scriptures existed. It was Paul's first epistle. The only epistle to be written before that was the small letter by James. And, possibly the gospel of Matthew.
NT Scripture was just in its infancy when Paul wrote about the temporary gifts will come to an end. The NT was awaiting to be completed. Temporary gifts were given by the Spirit to hold everyone over until the completed NT had come and had been circulated for the church to have.

Until that time arrived God chose to provide a temporary means to cover what was needed until that point was reached.

Prophesy does not only entail telling the future. Its about "forth telling." Prophesy as a gift also entailed speaking forth the Word that was not yet written. Just look at all the prophets of the OT. Their words they spoke later became Scripture after they were spoken!

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If that passage were for the gifts he should of have mentioned all 9 don't you think...

NBB said:

If that passage were for the gifts he should of have mentioned all 9 don't you think...

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OK.... I need to move on.

genez said:

Again... Paul said that while tongues were yet serving its intended purpose. He also said that tongues will end at a certain point.

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Yes he did; but he didn't say when.

genez said:

Nothing was said about the gift of teaching and evangelism ending.

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EVERYTHING will end one day. When what is perfect arrives - i.e when Jesus returns and the Kingdom of God is fully on earth - what is incomplete will disappear, 1 Corinthians 13:10.
There will be no need for evangelism when every knee is bowing and every tongue confessing Christ as Lord.

genez said:

Until that time arrived God chose to provide a temporary means to cover what was needed until that point was reached.

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You are regarding the perfection spoken of in verse 10 as being the Bible - many people say that perfection is when Jesus returns and fully brings in the Kingdom of God.
He is THE Word. God's word, the Bible, is true, but we do not yet see perfection - there are hundreds of different ways of interpreting it. Look at all the debates/arguments on these forums and the numbers of threads which get closed, and people banned; all because we have different approaches to, and ways of interpreting, Scripture.

genez said:

What does that mean? Was that a typo?




The word "church" was not considered to be a building like we know today. God's Ecclesia meant a called out assembly of believers. Not some building.

You seem not able to coherently understand what I was saying. I never said inside a building.

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You said/posted 'church', and thankfully have noted the difference between 'church' and Ekklesia/Ecclesia, which is not frequently realized.

Oscarr said:

The only part I don't go along with is Wesley's doctrine of entire sanctification by faith. There are problems with that doctrine because it implies sinless perfection in this life. Even Wesley, in his later ministry, rejected it because he found it practically unworkable.

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Most Methodists don't define ES this way. There is a recent discussion of ES in the following thread:

Sanctification

Oscarr said:

I also believe in eternal security for the believer, because if the security and life can be lost while a person is a believer, then the security is no longer eternal, and the life which believers received when they accepted Christ was never eternal in the first place. But a professing Christian who falls away from Christ and ends up rejecting Him and the gospel, may be lost, because he may not have been truly converted in the first place and never actually received eternal life.

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I agree with you. The doctrine of "eternal security," defined properly like you wrote, is the greatest accomplishment of the Refomation.

Andrewn said:

I agree with you. The doctrine of "eternal security," defined properly like you wrote, is the greatest accomplishment of the Refomation.

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How does that doctrine compare with the restoration of salvation by faith in Jesus ?
I'd think being saved by faith is more important (a greater accomplishment) ?

Oscarr said:

It did act as a sign to unbelievers on the Day of Pentecost, and probably at Cornelius' home. These were one-off events and not an indication of the continued use of tongues by a believer, either in private or church.

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There are verse 22 Christians and verse 23 Christians . We have to acknowledge the difficulty in 1Co 14:10-25.

- In verse 22, the Apostle says that tongues are for unbelievers and prophecy is for believers.

- But in verses 23-24 and elsewhere, he implies the opposite: tongues are for believers and prophecy is for unbelievers.

- I've been contemplating this difficulty in the light of the 2 incidents in Acts that you've mentioned.

- It's probable, IMO, that in verse 22 Paul meant that tongues are, for new believers, a sign of assurance that they're to rejoice in receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit.

- Thus the unbelievers become believers and continue to rejoice in the Holy Spirit and tongues.

- But for the outsiders and skeptical, hearing tongues is like crazy babbling. This is unless there is interpretation.

- It would be more beneficial for the outsider to listen to a prophecy that may convict his mind.

Strong in Him said:

Yes he did; but he didn't say when.

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He did not have to say when. We know it now. It happened in 70AD when Jerusalem was destroyed along with the Temple.

Jesus said that the Temple would be destroyed. He too, did not say when. Did he? Because its now recorded history. 70AD was the year. The Jews then ceased being seen as God's official representatives.


Did Jesus say when it was to happen? Did Paul say when tongues was to cease?

Israel was JUDGED! For rejecting Jesus Christ as their Messiah!

Up until that time the Lord was providing warning signs. One sign to those who would refuse to believe (tongues -speaking actual foreign languages, not gibberish). And a sign for those who would believe the Lord gave the gift of prophesy.

Both gifts did not end at the same moment. The Greek in Corinthians uses two different Greek words to explain how they were to end differently. It could not mean at the resurrection as some claim. For, if that were the case? Both would end instantly.

Key words to pay attention to in the following passage are "this people." For the sign gifts were to be given for a specific people. The Jews. The Bible teaches us that the Jews required a sign! And, the Gentiles required wisdom! God differentiated between peoples in regards to the sign gifts. Even though Gentiles were given the gift of tongues. What greater way for a Jew to hear his native language being spoken by someone who did not know his native tongue of where he lived?



Its there. And its to be clarified for those who want it clarified.

Not all will want it clarified. Because they are caught up in a power sphere that stimulates them emotionally. One that they refuse to give up. Its an addiction. They will refuse to heed the truth. They have made their god their emotions.

Do I expect everyone to accept this? If I did? I would think myself better than even Jesus who was rejected by the addicted ones, being addicted to their own emotional strongholds that they refused to repent of. Emotions are a substitute for reason.

That is how its going to be until the Lord returns. There will be those faithful to the Word of God. And, those who are faithful to their own set of beliefs, while distorting the Word to secure their own position. Just like corrupt politicians distort the law to gain what they desire, yet make it look like they are following the law.


grace and peace...

genez said:

That is how its going to be until the Lord returns. There will be those faithful to the Word of God. And, those who are faithful to their own set of beliefs, while distorting the Word to secure their own position. Just like corrupt politicians distort the law to gain what they desire, yet make it look like they are following the law.

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The irony there, it doesn't fit in your mind even a bit that maybe you are the one distorting things, for one being filled with the holy spirit doesn't happen at believing/converting, for some people happens but not for all. So no being filled with the holy spirit is not becoming alive with the spirit of God at believing/converting.

genez said:

He did not have to say when. We know it now. It happened in 70AD when Jerusalem was destroyed along with the Temple.

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That's clearly your opinion.
I've heard people speaking in tongues, and there are many posts on this forum from people who also speak in tongues. Therefore, it has not disappeared.

genez said:

Jesus said that the Temple would be destroyed. He too, did not say when. Did he? Because its now recorded history. 70AD was the year. The Jews then ceased being seen as God's official representatives.

As Jesus was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him,
“Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!”

“Do you see all these great buildings?” replied Jesus. “Not one stone
here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.” Mrk 13:1-2​

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That's got nothing to do with speaking in tongues - no matter how large type you write it in.

genez said:

Did Paul say when tongues was to cease?

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No, he didn't - so you can't say that it stopped when the NT was written and that we don't have tongues today.

QUOTE="genez, post: 74485433, member: 27734"]
Israel was JUDGED! For rejecting Jesus Christ as their Messiah!

Up until that time the Lord was providing warning signs. One sign to those who would refuse to believe (tongues -speaking actual foreign languages, not gibberish). [/QUOTE]

I've read of people who've spoken in tongues, and it has been confirmed to be an actual, verifiable language that was not known by the speaker. I've read of someone speaking in tongues in a service and a person from another country has heard the word of God in their language and been converted.

QUOTE="genez, post: 74485433, member: 27734"]
Both gifts did not end at the same moment. [/QUOTE]

It's only your opinion that both gifts have ended.

Strong in Him said:

That's clearly your opinion.
I've heard people speaking in tongues, and there are many posts on this forum from people who also speak in tongues. Therefore, it has not disappeared.

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Can you name any church that today still exists, and is apostate? The fact that it exists? Means its not apostate? That was the reasoning you just gave me.


Something is called tongues today. Same manifestations can be found in cults and pagan religions. Google the following... "video Hindus speaking in tongues" There are videos.


Its exists today with non believers in Jesus and they may be working with you in your workplace. So? That means tongues is Biblical? Its something different than what took place when it was an active gift! Among other things... God designed his tongues to be a sign to those who would refuse to believe.

The Reformation did not end certain believers from praying to Mary. Since they do today? That means its right? There again is your logic you gave me.

Why do you think we needed to be told that tongues would end? To protect us from wrong power spheres!

There has always been corruption seeping into the church. After all. Its Satan's main concern. For Jesus told us only the Truth will make a man free from Satan's influence. Only the Truth. Not observation and opinion.

grace and peace...