Abundance of Incest in Modern Times

expos4ever

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Given the modern climate leaning more and more toward immorality,......
I think there are very compelling reasons to doubt that our moral climate is degrading. Yes, in the specific area of sexuality, the Christian could, perhaps, mount a case that we are slipping backwards. But even in this area, there are clear improvements, for example the increasing refusal to tolerate sexual abuse in the workplace.

But in many other areas I suggest the evidence shows that our morals are generally improving:

- Slavery is no longer tolerated as acceptable;
- Women are increasingly being given more rights;
- Violence is tolerated less than it used to be (e.g. bullying in schools).

And so on.
 
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Jonathan Walkerin

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Let's be blunt: we probably all know that Islam, for all its possible harmful effects, is not "cast as the only acceptable religion to be practiced in our schools".

It only hurts what possible merits one's position might have when one starts to make things up out of thin air.

Of course if you have no merits for your position to begin with this will not trouble you at all.

Probably why we see so many of these claims.
 
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JacksBratt

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I think that we are going to see a degradation of biblical morals in a state of acceleration. More and more things that God has set up as moral are being contradicted, questioned and deviation from them is becoming accepted by the world, governments, courts and even churches...

Why would this be any different?
 
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JacksBratt

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I think there are very compelling reasons to doubt that our moral climate is degrading. Yes, in the specific area of sexuality, the Christian could, perhaps, mount a case that we are slipping backwards. But even in this area, there are clear improvements, for example the increasing refusal to tolerate sexual abuse in the workplace.

But in many other areas I suggest the evidence shows that our morals are generally improving:

- Slavery is no longer tolerated as acceptable;
- Women are increasingly being given more rights;
- Violence is tolerated less than it used to be (e.g. bullying in schools).

And so on.
This is true... for those being forced to do things that they don't like or are offended by...

However, things that are done with mutual consent.... are increasingly immoral and legal...
 
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Jonathan Walkerin

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However, things that are done with mutual consent.... are increasingly immoral and legal...

So more things done with mutual consent are increasingly legal ?

Worrisome trend we have here. I can see how traditional Christian values have problem with that.
 
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Silverback

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I have qualms about gay marriage, but this chain you present does seem a tad stretched. Again, we can all make fanciful claims - supporting them with evidence of at least some sort would be a lot better.

if you look to history, it will tell you the future, this has played itself out dozens of times in the past, immorality feeds on it's self, and snowballs. I won't say it will happen in my lifetime, but moral decay will take any society down, and strange forms of marriage has always been in the mix.
 
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SaintNick

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There is a straight up erotic entertainment satanic push towards influencing incest among families. It's been the devils plan since the beginning. Children of God are usually targeted in their youth by child predators in order to detour them from the truth. They grow up against God because of their experience by often times Priests or other family members.
 
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JacksBratt

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So more things done with mutual consent are increasingly legal ?

Worrisome trend we have here. I can see how traditional Christian values have problem with that.
I must have miscommunication... Many things of increasingly immoral nature are becoming more accepted.

Meanwhile, simple things like calling someone "Miss" or "Mrs" instead of Ms... or some other pronoun... without consent... are taken as an atrocity...

It's all based on "mutual consent" or "acceptance" by the one being "offended".

The person I was responding to stated:

"I think there are very compelling reasons to doubt that our moral climate is degrading."

I disagreed... with my explanation. Everything and anything goes...that is.... until someone takes "offense" of some little speck.... then it goes viral, the poor soul who committed the offense is dragged through the mud, called a bigot... and socially assassinated.
 
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JacksBratt

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There is a straight up erotic entertainment satanic push towards influencing incest among families. It's been the devils plan since the beginning. Children of God are usually targeted in their youth by child predators in order to detour them from the truth. They grow up against God because of their experience by often times Priests or other family members.
It's a steep and slippery slope...

Satan destroyed the marriages by totally messing the whole concept of a biblical set up of a marriage...
Her desire will be for her husband and he will rule over her...
(explained as "Her desire" which was to be the head... Is for her husband.. SO the headship goes to the husband... and he will rule over her..
Women have fought to be the leaders of homes for centuries.
Men.... we wrecked that ourselves by stating that this, somehow, made us masters... not leaders. Dictators not providers and protectors... Anyway.......

With this, he destroyed families and the whole family structure.
Then he destroyed the "man and wife" to make man and man or woman and woman "normal" and accepted.
Next was the "He created them male and female"... to what it is now.. to Male and a dozen other supposed sexes.....

Now, the structure of human marriages and families is messed up and nobody is happy except Satan...While everyone thinks that this is better.
 
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Elliewaves

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There was an abundance of incest and cousin marriages throughout history and in the Bible . There is probably less in modern times since most people seek love marriages outside their cousins and inter racial/ cultural / class marriages are much more acceptable.
 
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Sketcher

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So, you want evidence for something outside the scope of your personal experience and the bubble you appear to live within?
Yes, that's generally how evidenced-based thinking works.

How can I prove to you that my children were very recently under that barrage, thus causing us to have to pull them from that public school and place them in a private school?
Well, you could have talked about that experience. Were Muslim kids at the public school that your kids attended given special privileges to practice their faith in ways that Christians got in trouble for?

How long has it been since you listened to one of D. James Kennedy's sermons, especially those where he outlines the situation in varying details and examples? How long has it been since you listened to AFR, BOTT and numerous other Christian outlets for ministry and news that has direct impact upon families and the nations?
If you have sermons, articles, or reports from these or any other sources that cite facts that back your position, please link them.

It seems to me that most here are aware of, and some have even experienced at least SOME of the foundational statements I have made in this regard, so I'm puzzled how you could be so isolated from what is becoming more and more obvious and prolific with time.
I require more than hearsay to believe an accusation of any sort.

I didn't take a recording device into the public school classrooms I visited, listened and observed some of the material the kids are being fed, where the social studies courses (for example) I saw included very friendly language toward islam, and how it is a peaceful religion, but that "Christianity" is guilty of murderous crusades. That only washes in the muddled brains of those who are isolated from world news and history, and who are victims of a severe lack in critical thinking skills.
Which textbooks had this?
 
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SwordmanJr

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This is all anecdotal and evades the responsibility you have to support a claim which I and others are fairly certain you invented through a combination of an active imagination and speculation.

I see. So your systematic methodology is to tear-down the observed and experiential statements made by others who did not make what they saw and heard into a scientific, proof-gathering endeavor, thus trying to relegate them to silence, or trying to show that you've won the day by allegedly having dismantled their claim in the eyes of others in order to put to rest what YOU have not seen nor heard. Very crafty indeed.

Well, frankly, I don't really care at all if you believe me. If you look back through this thread, I at no time begged, "expose4ever, please, please, please believe me..." I rest in the confidence that there are many others out there who have seen and heard what I have stated, in varying degrees, and so those folks and I can relate while you hide within your little bubble spouting those fancy identifiers that are rooted in a fallacy defined by your own ignorance and lack of personally observed evidence for what is being claimed.

If I were making it up, then I would not rest in the confidence of what I know to be true. I might be all aquiver inside, hoping that you never launch out on your own to read and watch what is out there, only to discover that there is a total vacuum in relation to what I have said. You seem to enjoy posing as some sort of bastion against hearsay. Well, that's fine so long as you don't try to use it as a battering ram against what you can discover for yourself when challenged. Evidence can be a two-way street when facing someone who is little more than a mere antagonist with a chip on his shoulder, or an axe to grind. Having doubts about the merits of what someone says who did not make their observations into some sort of scienctific endeavor for evidence collection, and then labeling their claims as "made up," etc., that's nothing but blind doubt, to which you are perfectly entitled. Nobody here is out to take you out to the wood shed for your doubts. I too firmly believe in what Paul said when he instructed us to "Prove all things." Great.

You have made the counter-claim that I made it up, and then you cower behind the idea that evidence for claims is all one-sided. Well, I don't subscribe to such a manipulative system of Pharisaical, Clintonesque slight-of-hand. A punk challenged me last night to PROVE that God exists, and that he would then follow Christ. I countered him with the fact that he can't prove God DOESN'T exist, only to show that going down that road is nothing more than a dead end. Dude, you derailed nothing in the thinking of those who have seen and heard what I have stated. For all others, you have the right to disbelieve, but the day is coming when we will ALL see the infiltrations is the islamic, Fascist system of thought.

The liberal media is continuously demonstrating its friendly leanings toward islam, even though mainstream islamics cast homosexuals off high rise buildings, hang them, or execute them by other means, and are known widely to abuse, beat and demean women, and you're sitting there casting fallacy language around against the observations I've made as if there's no merits for possibility, and on the basis of your own ignorance and/or agenda, whichever the case may be. The leftist acceptance of islam should give pause to your doubts, but I suspect you're one of those who believes MSNBC, CNN and all the other leftist propaganda machines with blind indifference to evidence for THEIR claims. Hey, you have that right, but you're not going to win the day in this discussion so easily.

While holding my feet to the fire, you're also standing in the flames of the same fire.

Jr
 
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SwordmanJr

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Yes, that's generally how evidenced-based thinking works.


Well, you could have talked about that experience. Were Muslim kids at the public school that your kids attended given special privileges to practice their faith in ways that Christians got in trouble for?

I will re-frame your question to fit the narrative: Were Muslim kids at the public school that your kids attended given special rooms for their practices from which all others were barred?

Yes. When we asked that the kids of other faiths have their own rooms set aside for the practice of their beliefs, we were all flatly denied. Classrooms were already all scarce in the limited space of the facility, and yet the only accommodation offered was toward the islamic kids.

Oh, and I can't prove that. I didn't go into the islamic sector and take photos of what was given to them for their own exclusive space. We were told that we had a good case against the school for what they had done, but no attorney wanted to fight that fight, knowing the local media would slaughter the story, pitching it all in favor of the islamics. So, a government operation allowed for the establishment of a space for one religion over all others. And then the public university where I attended took the entire chapel away from those of other faiths, and allowed the islamics to make it into their place of worship, barring all others from entry.

Can I prove that like a scientific experiment...recreate it in a lab setting for someone else to observe? Nope. One would have to go there themselves to see it, which I know ain't gonna happen, so what's the diff?

I invite card-carrying skeptics to doubt all this. That's cool with me. I don't really care one way or the other. I rest in the knowledge that fellow students and parents saw it, and know it's true. I'm content with that.

Jr
 
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expos4ever

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I see. So your systematic methodology is to tear-down the observed and experiential statements made by others who did not make what they saw and heard into a scientific, proof-gathering endeavor, thus trying to relegate them to silence, or trying to show that you've won the day by allegedly having dismantled their claim in the eyes of others in order to put to rest what YOU have not seen nor heard. Very crafty indeed.
Let us review, shall we?. You made this claim (I added bold for emphasis):

Today, it's a free-for-all of valueless humanism, with islam cast as the only acceptable religion to be practiced in our schools, which is ironic given how hostile islam is toward women's freedom and homosexuals.

You invented the material in bold - it is simply too absurd to be true (assuming you are talking about the United States, of course). But, you deserve the opportunity to defend your statement.

What did you do when you were challenged? Did you post some sort of results of a broad survey? Did you post statistics from a reliable source?

No.

You engaged in multiple rambling sermons, seasoned with the usual doses of inflammatory rhetoric crafted to appeal to emotion rather than reason. And your basic argument is anecdotal - you seem to think that your personal experience, and equally anecdotal claims of un-named others, is valid evidence for your claim.

That is simply not correct - no person committed to proper evidence-based reasoning would come to a position based on purely anecdotal support. You need a credible study drawing on a large enough sample size.

No one is trying to silence you. We are simply calling you to account for what we all know is a wild exaggeration.
 
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expos4ever

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Well, I don't subscribe to such a manipulative system of Pharisaical, Clintonesque slight-of-hand. A punk challenged me last night to PROVE that God exists, and that he would then follow Christ.....
This is what I meant when I wrote that you use inflammatory language that appeals to emotions and not reason. Do they teach you to use this tactic in the church basement on Wednesday nights? Calling people "punks" and "pharisees" screams loudly that attacking the character of those who deign to disagree with you is your only option since you have no credible data to support your clearly over-the-top claims.
 
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expos4ever

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If I were making it up, then I would not rest in the confidence of what I know to be true.
Are you suggesting that one' confidence in the truth of a claim is evidence for the truthfulness of that claim?
 
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expos4ever

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Yes. When we asked that the kids of other faiths have their own rooms set aside for the practice of their beliefs, we were all flatly denied. Classrooms were already all scarce in the limited space of the facility, and yet the only accommodation offered was toward the islamic kids.

Oh, and I can't prove that.
Why can't you prove this? No written communications were involved - no emails?

Details matter: if you can show us some actual evidence that Islamic students were given special privileges and that similar privileges were denied children of other faiths, then you might have a point.
 
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Sketcher

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I will re-frame your question to fit the narrative: Were Muslim kids at the public school that your kids attended given special rooms for their practices from which all others were barred?

Yes. When we asked that the kids of other faiths have their own rooms set aside for the practice of their beliefs, we were all flatly denied. Classrooms were already all scarce in the limited space of the facility, and yet the only accommodation offered was toward the islamic kids.

Oh, and I can't prove that. I didn't go into the islamic sector and take photos of what was given to them for their own exclusive space. We were told that we had a good case against the school for what they had done, but no attorney wanted to fight that fight, knowing the local media would slaughter the story, pitching it all in favor of the islamics. So, a government operation allowed for the establishment of a space for one religion over all others. And then the public university where I attended took the entire chapel away from those of other faiths, and allowed the islamics to make it into their place of worship, barring all others from entry.
So the ACLU wasn't interested? The ACLJ? The ADF?
 
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SwordmanJr

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Let us review, shall we?. You made this claim (I added bold for emphasis)
You invented the material in bold - it is simply too absurd to be true (assuming you are talking about the United States, of course). But, you deserve the opportunity to defend your statement.

Had I intended for the meaning to be expansively inclusive of the entire nation, I would have said so. To clarify even more, that statement is obviously one in relation to my own experience from what I have observed, AND it was echoed but others from other areas of the country.

What did you do when you were challenged? Did you post some sort of results of a broad survey? Did you post statistics from a reliable source?

Reliable source? What, in your opinion, is a reliable source? CNN? MSNBC? Other mass media outlets?

You engaged in multiple rambling sermons, seasoned with the usual doses of inflammatory rhetoric crafted to appeal to emotion rather than reason. And your basic argument is anecdotal - you seem to think that your personal experience, and equally anecdotal claims of un-named others, is valid evidence for your claim.

I also stated that the testimonies from other is also published on various sites across the web. Did I go out and demand they prove their claims? No. When I see the same or similar experiences uttered by others in totally differing parts of the country, I tend to think it reasonable to assume there is at least some validity to their statements.

I don't disagree with you about the necessity for validating claims, but I openly admitted to you that I did not engage my sharing with a campaign for evidence collection for the hard core, card carrying skeptics out there who subjectively demand such evidence. You don't have to believe what I and others have experienced and observed. I already stated that I don't care if you do or not.

Inflammatory? Well, you are also free to call it such when your own feet get rug burn, but you're floundering about like a blind man to try and find anyone who cares as to if you become convinced of experiences of a number of other people around the nation, a list of whom I did not collect for you to go and verify, with addresses and phone numbers. (shrug) I just don't care, dude. Can't you get that through your head? Nobody cares what you believe. My appeal was and is to those who understand not only the likelihood of the schemes of the enemy of our souls, but also have seen for themselves what I described, and perhaps worse.

So, in the face of a disregard for any concern for what you believe, it's ignoble to pursue what I'm not willing to go out and collect for your personal enjoyment. I'm not an investigative reporter getting paid for the time it would take to get said info for you. Go out and prove me wrong if you can. Go for it. Where's your gusto? Got any? Either way, I simply don't care. Believe what you wish. We all have that freedom.

Jr
 
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