Where do unborn infants go according to Orthodoxy?

All4Christ

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The children are bearing the fallen nature of Adam. They are not guilty but they are under this fall (distortion). We all have a distorted existential knowledge. This reality drift punishes us, not God. The children inherit this from their fathers.
I’ll defer to Father Matt (@ArmyMatt) on this, but I was taught that we didn’t have that father to child “inheritance”. Ancestral sin infected the entire world, and our nature is not ruined, but we now have an inclination to sin. We fell “ill” in Adam and fell under the law of sin - not as co-transgressors though.

St Cyril said:
How did many become sinners because of Adam?… How could we, who were not yet born, all be condemned with him, even though God said, ‘Neither the fathers shall be put to death because of their children, nor the children because of their fathers, but the soul which sins shall be put to death’? (cf. Deut. 24:18) … we became sinners through Adam’s disobedience in such manner as this: he was created for incorruptibility and life, and the manner of existence he had in the garden of delight was proper to holiness. His whole mind was continually beholding God; his body was tranquil and calm with all base pleasures being still. For there was no tumult of alien disturbances in it. But because he fell under sin and slipped into corruptibility, pleasures and filthiness assaulted the nature of the flesh, and in our members was unveiled a savage law. Our nature, then, became diseased by sin through the disobedience of one, that is, of Adam. Thus, all were made sinners, not by being co-transgressors with Adam,… but by being of his nature and falling under the law of sin… Human nature fell ill in Adam and subject to corruptibility through disobedience, and, therefore, the passions entered in”.
 
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ArmyMatt

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I’ll defer to Father Matt (@ArmyMatt) on this, but I was taught that we didn’t have that father to child “inheritance”. Ancestral sin infected the entire world, and our nature is not ruined, but we now have an inclination to sin. We fell “ill” in Adam and fell under the law of sin - not as co-transgressors though.

well, we do. we inherent our fallenness from our parents because we are born according to the fallen mode of reproduction.
 
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All4Christ

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well, we do. we inherent our fallenness from our parents because we are born according to the fallen mode of reproduction.
Specific to father to child? Through the seed?
 
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ArmyMatt

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Specific to father to child? Through the seed?

yes, guilt isn't passed on, but the effects are. and that is because we are all born according to the fallen mode of reproduction.
 
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ArmyMatt

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I agree we don't have Adam's guilt but don't we say that Christ is the only one without original/ancestral sin?

He is the only one without sin and He is unfallen. He is the only one unaffected by the original sin.
 
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Not David

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He is the only one without sin and He is unfallen. He is the only one unaffected by the original sin.
Ok. What about the Theotokos? I heard she was born with the original sins but was cleanse at the Annunciation.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Ok. What about the Theotokos? I heard she was born with the original sins but was cleanse at the Annunciation.

she was born fallen as the rest of us, and remained so until her translation into heaven after her death.

but she never committed any sin, though fallen.
 
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Not David

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Ok, I still believe there is an anti-Latin sentiment in American Orthodoxy. I remember how in a OCF trip, when we were talking about atonement theories, the guest priest expressed negativity for the Western ones because they dealt in a juridical sense even if Western Saints mentioned them.

People talked about St. Augustine so bad, a friend of mine didn't know he was a saint and I met people online who thought he was a heretic.

I also remembered how there was a discussion about Original Sin because the user thought he was tricked by the Church since the Council of Carthage dealt with Original Sin. I didn't even know until that time that babies were baptised for the remission of sins.
 
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Not David

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there is some of that, but I think that's if you read early Latin saints as the West reads them.
That's true Father but I don't see any correction. It is like dismissing St. Cyprian of Carthage for saying St. Peter is the Rock rather than explaining why that does not imply the Papacy.
 
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ArmyMatt

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That's true Father but I don't see any correction. It is like dismissing St. Cyprian of Carthage for saying St. Peter is the Rock rather than explaining why that does not imply the Papacy.

sure, but all you can do is try to read the Latin Fathers with the Orthodox mindset, even if others do not.
 
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Ok, I still believe there is an anti-Latin sentiment in American Orthodoxy. I remember how in a OCF trip, when we were talking about atonement theories, the guest priest expressed negativity for the Western ones because they dealt in a juridical sense even if Western Saints mentioned them.

I believe this is due to the Western version of atonement being so deeply ingrained in the US, then the priests try hard to create a contrast, or differentiation for teaching purposes. I highly doubt it's that they're downplaying the Western Saints due to anything to do with the RCC. I could be mistaken though.
 
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