Paul's Man of Sin Doesn't Enter the Jewish Temple

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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jgr said:
........So when you refer to "the Jews", how are you defining them?
1. People with Jewish DNA
2. People of Jewish culture
3. People of Jewish religion
4. Some other criteria
How about how Yahuweh Sovereign Creator Says ?
"He is not a Jew who is one outwardly, but inwardly". (as Yahuweh sees the truth, the heart, the reality, and declares it plainly).
Gotta get rid of the stony heart thru Jesus..........

Jeremiah 17:10 I Yahweh, searching heart, examining the affections/kidneys<03629 kilyah> and giving to man ways of him, as fruit of his doings. [Reve 2:23]

Hebrews 8:10 That this the Covenant which I shall be Covenanting to the House of Israel after the days, those, is saying Lord. Giving laws of Me into the Minds of them and upon Hearts of them I shall be engraving them.
And I shall be to them into God and they shall be to Me into a People. [JEREMIAH 31:33]

Revelation 2:23 And the offspring of her I shall be killing in death, and shall be knowing all the Assemblies that I AM the ONE searching kidneys/nefrouV <3510> and hearts and I shall be giving to Ye each according to the works of Ye. [Jeremiah 17:10]


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Revealing Times

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Many of the Christians interested in eschatology who post on Christian Forums believe that Paul prophesied that a Man of Sin will desecrate the Temple in Jerusalem. They believe that the Man of Sin, or Man of Lawlessness, will enter the Jewish Temple and proclaim himself to be God. For this prediction to be fulfilled, the Jewish Temple must be rebuilt, so it would seem.

Paul wrote about the Man of Lawlessness, or Man of Sin, in 2 Thessalonians 2: 1-12, and most pointedly in verses 3-4.

3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
2 Thessalonians 2: 3-4 NIV
2 Thessalonians 2:3 a: Some manuscripts sin [or man of sin]

Paul doesn't say that the Man of Sin will enter the Jewish Temple, or the Temple in Jerusalem. He says that the Man of Sin will set himself up "in God's temple." The NIV, RSV and KJV all agree that the phrase is either "God's temple" or "the temple of God." The question is, is "God's temple" the same as the Jewish temple? A strong case can be made that it is not.

Scholars believe that 1 Thessalonians was most likely written in 51 AD and that 2 Thessalonians was written only a few months later. What this means is that that Temple in Jerusalem was still standing and open for business when both letters were written. At first glance, that might seem to support the notion that Paul was talking about the Temple in Jerusalem. We know that the Roman army tore down the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD, only 19 years later. Consider the impact of these letters and later events on the Thessalonians if we assume that the Thessalonians thought that Paul meant the Temple in Jerusalem. First, Paul tells them that at some time in the future, before the Second Coming, a Man of Sin will enter the Jewish Temple and commit sacrilege. Then, before this prophecy is fulfilled, a Roman army tears the Temple down. There is no realistic prospect of it being rebuilt. The Romans will not allow a Jewish Temple to be rebuilt. If the Jews had somehow managed to rebuild the Temple, the Romans would simply tear it down again. The most likely result is that the Thessalonians would lose faith in Paul and in the religion that he taught.

Suppose that Paul did know and understand the future in considerable detail. Suppose that he meant to refer to the Jewish Temple, and he knew that it would be destroyed and not rebuilt for hundreds of years. If these things had to happen before his prophecy was fulfilled, surely he would have said so. Paul would not have imperiled the faith of the Thessalonians by failing to mention that point.

There is another possibility. Paul never meant for "God's Temple" to mean the Temple in Jerusalem. The passage doesn't mention Jerusalem, Israel, Palestine, or Jewish priests. Paul may not have intended "God's Temple" to refer to a physical building at all.

In the second Chapter of Ephesians, Paul refers to a "holy temple" with Jesus Christ as the Cornerstone. This is not the Temple in Jerusalem. It is not the Jewish Temple. The spiritual temple with Jesus as the Cornerstone is the Temple that Paul was talking about in 2 Thessalonians Chapter 2.

19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
Ephesians 2: 19-22 NIV

What this means is that the Man of Sin is not someone who desecrates the Temple in Jerusalem, should one be standing at the time. The Man of Sin is someone who enters the Christian church, is accepted as a Christian, and then claims a position before God that no mortal can possess. The Man of Sin is not a military leader who takes the temple mount by force and has his own way. Instead, the Man of Sin is a false religious leader.

The Thessalonians were mostly Greeks who did not first think of the Jewish Temple when Paul used the word "temple." They knew Paul in person and understood him better than we do. The Thessalonians knew of Paul's spiritual Holy Temple and did not think their faith was in peril when the Jewish Temple was torn down.

Another reason to think that Paul did not think that the Temple in Jerusalem was the Temple of God comes from these verses in Luke.

44 It was now about noon, and darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon, 45 for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two
Luke 23:44-45 NIV

The curtain of the temple refers to the curtain around the Holy of Holies. I don't believe that God is finished with the Jewish people. It does look like the ripping of the sacred curtain of the Holy of Holies is a sign that God is finished with the Jerusalem Temple at that point. This is another reason to believe that Paul was thinking of God's spiritual temple in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.

You are right, IMHO, but because of wrong assumptions. The Man of Sin will sit in the Temple via an IMAGE that COMES ALIVE. {whatever that means is what it means}.

Rev. 13 tells us that the False Prophet PLACES an Image of the Beast in the Temple and demands that all men worship him or die. I contend this "IMAGE" will be placed in all religious places all around the world and it will be a LIFE LIKE IMAGE of the Beast that sees all and knows all, I have no clue what kind of nano technology this will be, but we see what road science is going down now, and its kinda scary to be honest.

The 1290 comes BEFORE the 1260.
 
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Dale

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You are right, IMHO, but because of wrong assumptions. The Man of Sin will sit in the Temple via an IMAGE that COMES ALIVE. {whatever that means is what it means}.

Rev. 13 tells us that the False Prophet PLACES an Image of the Beast in the Temple and demands that all men worship him or die. I contend this "IMAGE" will be placed in all religious places all around the world and it will be a LIFE LIKE IMAGE of the Beast that sees all and knows all, I have no clue what kind of nano technology this will be, but we see what road science is going down now, and its kinda scary to be honest.

The 1290 comes BEFORE the 1260.


RT, thanks for responding. You start off by assuming that Paul's Man of Sin is the same as the human Beast in Revelation. We don't know that. Or, I could ask, how do we know that? My answer is that we don't.

Then you go on to talk about the Beast in the Temple in Revelation 13. But Revelation 13 doesn't use the word "temple." There is nothing in Revelation 13 that suggests Jerusalem, Israel, or the Middle East. Instead, it tells us that the Beast rises from the sea, the chaos of events, and that these events will affect everyone on earth. You seem to be inserting a word that isn't there. Or you are confusing an interpretation that some commentators have made with the text of Revelation 13.

Paul's Man of Sin is a religious leader. The human Beast in Revelation appears to be a political and military leader. It isn't obvious that they are the same. I don't believe they are.
 
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Revealing Times

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RT, thanks for responding. You start off by assuming that Paul's Man of Sin is the same as the human Beast in Revelation. We don't know that. Or, I could ask, how do we know that? My answer is that we don't.
The Man of Sin, Little Horn, Anti-Christ are all the same, a MAN/Beast. Rev, 12 is the Dragon Beast Satan as denoted by the CROWNS on the 7 Heads, in Luke 4 we see Satan tells Jesus that ALL these Kingdoms are his to do as he wills with, so the CROWNS on the 7 Heads denote Satan as that Beast. The CROWNS in the 10 Horns/Kings in Rev. 13 DENOTE the Anti-Christ man as that Beast, the 10 Kings freely give their power unto the Beast. A beast just represents an OPPRESSOR. The Rev. 17 Beast is Apollyon, the King of the Bottomless Pit who WAS....IS NOT....YET IS. He has NO CROWNS.

I understand that via scripture, but I also had a vision in 1986 about the Man of Sin, and to affirm this to a young Christian {we have a tendency as young Christians to ignore things} I had another vision where I was in this HUGE Auditorium, and there was Jimmy Swaggart preaching to about 10 people, I was one. A week or 2 later God took his ministry from him, but I saw that before it happened !! So I then took the Man of Sin very serious, God said very loudly in my vision where I was running from some evil dudes with two small kids.........THE MAN OF SIN IS HERE..........That was 1986. The bible easily confirms who the Man of Sin is.

Then you go on to talk about the Beast in the Temple in Revelation 13. But Revelation 13 doesn't use the word "temple." There is nothing in Revelation 13 that suggests Jerusalem, Israel, or the Middle East. Instead, it tells us that the Beast rises from the sea, the chaos of events, and that these events will affect everyone on earth. You seem to be inserting a word that isn't there. Or you are confusing an interpretation that some commentators have made with the text of Revelation 13.

Matthew 24:15-17 tells the Jews to FLEE when they see the Abomination of Desolation, that stands where it ought not to stand. Daniel tells us that the Sacrifice is taken away and the holy of hollies is defiled. So the IMAGE of Rev. 13 is placed in the Temple no doubt, because the False Prophet is a Jewish High Priest like unto Jason under Antiochus. The TWO TYPES were together !! Jason's real name was Yeshua, he bribed Antiochus to be named the High Priest, then tried to Hellenize the Jews, thus his Greek name of Jason, the Jews rebelled {Maccabean Revolt}. The False Prophet will also be a High Priest who tries to turn the Jews into WORLDLY TYPES and tries to get them to forsake their God.

Paul's Man of Sin is a religious leader. The human Beast in Revelation appears to be a political and military leader. It isn't obvious that they are the same. I don't believe they are.
Hes the Beast and hes cast into hell in Dan. 7:11 and Rev. 19:20, as a MAN, his body is DESTROYED and hes cast into Hell. The False Prophet is a RELIGIOUS Beast.
 
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jgr

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No, not at all.

True. Which leaves the only remaining alternative.

God's selection criteria for His Chosen People are the same for both Jew and Gentile.

Faith and obedience.

Two spiritual chromosomes.

Exclusively.
 
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ryansymons86

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I have no doubt in my mind that it is a spiritual temple, that exists within all of us, the dwelling place of the holy spirit!

“But the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says, ‘Heaven is My throne and earth is My footstool. What house will you build Me, says the Lord, or what is the place of My rest? Has not My hand made all these things?’” (Acts 7:48-50 MKJV)
 
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rnmomof7

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Many of the Christians interested in eschatology who post on Christian Forums believe that Paul prophesied that a Man of Sin will desecrate the Temple in Jerusalem. They believe that the Man of Sin, or Man of Lawlessness, will enter the Jewish Temple and proclaim himself to be God. For this prediction to be fulfilled, the Jewish Temple must be rebuilt, so it would seem.

Paul wrote about the Man of Lawlessness, or Man of Sin, in 2 Thessalonians 2: 1-12, and most pointedly in verses 3-4.

3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
2 Thessalonians 2: 3-4 NIV
2 Thessalonians 2:3 a: Some manuscripts sin [or man of sin]

Paul doesn't say that the Man of Sin will enter the Jewish Temple, or the Temple in Jerusalem. He says that the Man of Sin will set himself up "in God's temple." The NIV, RSV and KJV all agree that the phrase is either "God's temple" or "the temple of God." The question is, is "God's temple" the same as the Jewish temple? A strong case can be made that it is not.

Scholars believe that 1 Thessalonians was most likely written in 51 AD and that 2 Thessalonians was written only a few months later. What this means is that that Temple in Jerusalem was still standing and open for business when both letters were written. At first glance, that might seem to support the notion that Paul was talking about the Temple in Jerusalem. We know that the Roman army tore down the Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD, only 19 years later. Consider the impact of these letters and later events on the Thessalonians if we assume that the Thessalonians thought that Paul meant the Temple in Jerusalem. First, Paul tells them that at some time in the future, before the Second Coming, a Man of Sin will enter the Jewish Temple and commit sacrilege. Then, before this prophecy is fulfilled, a Roman army tears the Temple down. There is no realistic prospect of it being rebuilt. The Romans will not allow a Jewish Temple to be rebuilt. If the Jews had somehow managed to rebuild the Temple, the Romans would simply tear it down again. The most likely result is that the Thessalonians would lose faith in Paul and in the religion that he taught.

Suppose that Paul did know and understand the future in considerable detail. Suppose that he meant to refer to the Jewish Temple, and he knew that it would be destroyed and not rebuilt for hundreds of years. If these things had to happen before his prophecy was fulfilled, surely he would have said so. Paul would not have imperiled the faith of the Thessalonians by failing to mention that point.

There is another possibility. Paul never meant for "God's Temple" to mean the Temple in Jerusalem. The passage doesn't mention Jerusalem, Israel, Palestine, or Jewish priests. Paul may not have intended "God's Temple" to refer to a physical building at all.

In the second Chapter of Ephesians, Paul refers to a "holy temple" with Jesus Christ as the Cornerstone. This is not the Temple in Jerusalem. It is not the Jewish Temple. The spiritual temple with Jesus as the Cornerstone is the Temple that Paul was talking about in 2 Thessalonians Chapter 2.

19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
Ephesians 2: 19-22 NIV

What this means is that the Man of Sin is not someone who desecrates the Temple in Jerusalem, should one be standing at the time. The Man of Sin is someone who enters the Christian church, is accepted as a Christian, and then claims a position before God that no mortal can possess. The Man of Sin is not a military leader who takes the temple mount by force and has his own way. Instead, the Man of Sin is a false religious leader.

The Thessalonians were mostly Greeks who did not first think of the Jewish Temple when Paul used the word "temple." They knew Paul in person and understood him better than we do. The Thessalonians knew of Paul's spiritual Holy Temple and did not think their faith was in peril when the Jewish Temple was torn down.

Another reason to think that Paul did not think that the Temple in Jerusalem was the Temple of God comes from these verses in Luke.

44 It was now about noon, and darkness came over the whole land until three in the afternoon, 45 for the sun stopped shining. And the curtain of the temple was torn in two
Luke 23:44-45 NIV

The curtain of the temple refers to the curtain around the Holy of Holies. I don't believe that God is finished with the Jewish people. It does look like the ripping of the sacred curtain of the Holy of Holies is a sign that God is finished with the Jerusalem Temple at that point. This is another reason to believe that Paul was thinking of God's spiritual temple in 2 Thessalonians 2:3-4.


This is a very interesting observation.. I am a fan of Pink.. in his book on the parables he notes that the parable Jesus told of the mustard seed growing into a tree where the birds gathered that the hearers as Jews would understand that the birds were not a blessing in the OT ..and that they would actually represent false teachers entering the church
 
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ewq1938

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Paul's Man of Sin is a religious leader. The human Beast in Revelation appears to be a political and military leader. It isn't obvious that they are the same. I don't believe they are.

There are two beasts in Rev 13 and only the second one is a person. He is definitely religious as well as a military/Political leader.

The names of the one we normally call the Antichrist:

1st and 2nd John -antichrist
2 Thessalonians -man of sin
2 Thessalonians -that Wicked
2 Thessalonians -the son of perdition
Daniel -little horn
Revelation -false prophet

Many names but he is still the same person.
 
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ewq1938

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And the temple of God is Christians themselves according to the new testament.

1 Corinthians 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Paul wrote both of these which could imply he intended temple of God to always represent Christians.

Look how closely associated the Apostasy is to this false God sitting in the temple of God claiming to be God. That's no coincidence. It is believing this one is God, inside their soul letting this belief into them, into their own personal temple of God, replacing God with a false God that causes and is the Apostasy or falling away from the true God.
 
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I contend this "IMAGE" will be placed in all religious places all around the world and it will be a LIFE LIKE IMAGE of the Beast that sees all and knows all, I have no clue what kind of nano technology this will be, but we see what road science is going down now, and its kinda scary to be honest.


In Rev 13 an image is commanded to be made but I don't see anything about multiple images. It is fully written in the singular.
 
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Dale

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One thing of note. In 1 Thessalonians 2, Paul is addressing Judea and its sin.

13 For this reason we also thank God without ceasing, because when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe. 14 For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judea in Christ Jesus. For you also suffered the same things from your own countrymen, just as they did from the Judeans, 15 who killed both the Lord Jesus and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they do not please God and are contrary to all men, 16 forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved, so as always to fill up the measure of their sins; but wrath has come upon them to the uttermost.

Of interest is this passage: forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved, so as always to fill up the measure of their sins; but wrath has come upon them to the uttermost.

From my humble understanding of what Paul was referring to, was not only the Jews who rejected Christ but also the Priesthood who persecuted Christians. Among these were the "lawless one's" , unbelieving Jews and the high priest Annas II could possibly be the "son of perdition" as he continued Jewish Christian persecution including the execution of James the Just, Jesus Brother and leader of Christians in Jerusalem.




Maria,

I notice that in your post you put a lot of stress on Christians being persecuted by Jews. To some extent, Paul does make it sound that way in Thessalonians. One thing you have to remember is that later there were fierce empire-wide persecutions under Nero and Domitian. These persecutions hadn't happened yet when Paul wrote Thessalonians. Scholars believe that I & II Thessalonians were written in 51 AD or possibly 52 AD. Nero didn't become emperor until 54 AD, and I believe that his major persecution of Christians didn't start until about 64 AD.

There are also a couple of place in the NT where we know that Paul and other Christians were in conflict with idol makers. In 2 Timothy "Alexander the metal worker" mentioned as a enemy of the faith who is clearly remembered and still a danger. In Acts 19, Paul and other Christians are in conflict with Demetrius, who is also a metal worker. Demetrius is a silver smith and an idol maker. Despite the local legend that their famous silver statue of Artemis fell from the sky, it was probably made by Demetrius.

Alexander the metal worker and Demetrius the silver smith could be the same person, referred to under different names, or this could be a common pattern. Idol makers were quick to see that Christians were bad for their business, and often had enough influence in the community to do considerable harm.


14 Alexander the metalworker did me a great deal of harm. The Lord will repay him for what he has done. 15 You too should be on your guard against him, because he strongly opposed our message.
2 Timothy 4:14-15 NIV

23 About that time there arose a great disturbance about the Way. 24 A silversmith named Demetrius, who made silver shrines of Artemis, brought in a lot of business for the craftsmen there. 25 He called them together, along with the workers in related trades, and said: “You know, my friends, that we receive a good income from this business. 26 And you see and hear how this fellow Paul has convinced and led astray large numbers of people here in Ephesus and in practically the whole province of Asia. He says that gods made by human hands are no gods at all. 27 There is danger not only that our trade will lose its good name, but also that the temple of the great goddess Artemis will be discredited; and the goddess herself, who is worshiped throughout the province of Asia and the world, will be robbed of her divine majesty.”

28 When they heard this, they were furious and began shouting: “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!” 29 Soon the whole city was in an uproar. The people seized Gaius and Aristarchus, Paul’s traveling companions from Macedonia, and all of them rushed into the theater together. 30 Paul wanted to appear before the crowd, but the disciples would not let him. 31 Even some of the officials of the province, friends of Paul, sent him a message begging him not to venture into the theater.

32 The assembly was in confusion: Some were shouting one thing, some another. Most of the people did not even know why they were there. 33 The Jews in the crowd pushed Alexander to the front, and they shouted instructions to him. He motioned for silence in order to make a defense before the people. 34 But when they realized he was a Jew, they all shouted in unison for about two hours: “Great is Artemis of the Ephesians!”

35 The city clerk quieted the crowd and said: “Fellow Ephesians, doesn’t all the world know that the city of Ephesus is the guardian of the temple of the great Artemis and of her image, which fell from heaven? 36 Therefore, since these facts are undeniable, you ought to calm down and not do anything rash. 37 You have brought these men here, though they have neither robbed temples nor blasphemed our goddess. 38 If, then, Demetrius and his fellow craftsmen have a grievance against anybody, the courts are open and there are proconsuls. They can press charges.
Acts 19: 24-38 NIV
 
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Douggg

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There are two beasts in Rev 13 and only the second one is a person. He is definitely religious as well as a military/Political leader.

The names of the one we normally call the Antichrist:

1st and 2nd John -antichrist
2 Thessalonians -man of sin
2 Thessalonians -that Wicked
2 Thessalonians -the son of perdition
Daniel -little horn
Revelation -false prophet

Many names but he is still the same person.
Resort the order, in sequence of hos those appear in the bible. It is the beast is Revelation that is most often called the Antichrist, not the false prophet.

The first beast in Revelation 13 is a person, and his kingdom.
 
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Douggg

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In Rev 13 an image is commanded to be made but I don't see anything about multiple images. It is fully written in the singular.
One image to be placed in the temple. Who makes the image? It will be a statue image, having no trickery of electronics, so that when it does come to life - it will be believable to be supernatural.

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
 
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