Went to 2 churches today

rockytopva said:

Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. - Hebrews 12:2

Click to expand...

But, happiness doesn't equal joy.

Cheryl6397 said:

I attend a "happy, clappy" Christian church where God is praised, Jesus is praised and the Holy Spirit is revered. When worship is sung I join in praising and praying to the Holy Trinity. I can also stand or kneel in prayer and in quietness to be in Gods presence. With all the guitars and drums and smoke machines I feel Gods love, I feel joy. I listen to the teachings of the sermons with love, awe and absolute respect. I share communion in remembrance of Jesus and the absolute sacrifice of giving Himself to death because of His great love for us and that we should be joined again in Gods love. I love that God is present in my church. I go home. I listen to Dr Charles Stanley and his sermons and many tears have I shed in absolute love of my Heavenly Father and my beautiful Saviour Jesus Christ. I cry also when the Holy Spirit fills my heart and soul. As long as God is present and I hear the teachings of Jesus and also hear the Gospel I will pray, praise and worship. I was catholic but was born again to follow Christ.
I have decided to follow Jesus, no turning back, no turning back. Love that song
May Gods peace, love and joy be with you always

Click to expand...

Bless you! To me going to church is mostly about worship of Him and also to commune with His Real Presence. I, personally am able to do that best, feel that awe and reverence, in a liturgical church (high liturgy even a Tridentine Mass), however if you can do that well in a non-liturgical church then that's where you should be! As long as all of us can truly praise Him and get close (as much as a human can) to Him.

Brigid63 said:

But, happiness doesn't equal joy.

Click to expand...

Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: - 1 Peter 1:8

Poor Mr Bean trying to stay awake in church. The only joy here is watching the poor man! Some churches have a pretty weak version of joy!

Gods word is read and taught in my church, just as it should be. I thank God His Word is freely shared.
It is all about worshipping God and trusting Him

Sadly some people used to leave the church before Mass had completely finished. Rarely did anyone spend time talking to each other before or after the service but where I go now people enjoy ongoing conversation, prayer and just spending time together. It doesnt end on a Sunday either. Connect groups encourage us to get together in the week to discuss the sermon, to pray for each other, to socialise and generally be Gods children

If young people cannot sense a genuine joy in church, the old pied piper, the devil, will carry them away, tempting them to paces of fleshly joy.

Sadly this is more evidence that more Christians care about how they "feel" in church over genuine spiritual growth and silent prayer with the Holy Spirit. Think of the writing of the ten Commandments? Was God in the storm? Or in the earthquake? No. He was in the silent whisper.

Those who base what church they join solely on how it makes them feel will get only that--feelings; but less or no growth.

This subject is dear to my heart and as a Christian and someone who wants to commit himself completely as a disciple of Christ, it's concerning to me as the oneness my Lord prayed for has not occurred.

I attended a Coptic church for a few weeks. I finally got a job with Sundays off, so I'm concerned with finding a spiritual home to worship God and commune with other disciples. It was more based on an Egyptian culture and although no one was ever anything but kind towards me, it felt like there was an invisible wall that I would have to work hard to penetrate and I just wasn't interested. Today I attended a church more in line with my evangelical, Bible based upbringing. I had a great time and different churches emphasize different things.

The Coptic priest, in a class after Liturgy a few weeks ago, said about the Protestants, "we are united in love, but not in faith" as an expression of why Eucharist is denied them. That's a sad reality of the Christian world. I personally subscribe to the Branch theory (that all orthodox churches are expressions of Christ's faith and work on earth) despite its inherent contradictory conundrum. Many churches contradict each other, so to say they are all serving Christ in their own expression seems contradictory to the work of God and also undermines the claim of two church organizations which claim that they are the One and Only. That's why those churches have rejected this claim. Evangelical protestants generally don't have a problem with it.

I think in my case, the search for a perfect church experience is fleeting and ultimately vain unless I was to combine Protestant and Orthodox Divine Liturgy into one experience every Sunday. In my case, I have a need for a grand, majestic, weighty, holy, and formal experience of worshipping God. I feel the Catholic Mass is so climactic, especially as you approach the liturgy of the eucharist. I get their logic, that the Word of God leads to the "real event" which is Eucharist. Orthodox feel the same way, even though their liturgy is different.

I will stay Protestant because that's where I'm happiest. I decided to not become Catholic because the two most important ingredients in my conception of a Christian life were not there, nor were ever there for me. Joy and peace. Majesty, weightiness, reverence, and history were there. But not the peace of the Holy Spirit. That would be like marrying a woman who had beautiful fashion and incredible sophistication and social ability but lacked the gentle, quiet character that the Holy Spirit gives a woman. It would be a less than satisfying marriage. It's all about priorities.

Unfortunately, no one institutional church on Earth fulfills all the desires I have. No church checks "all the boxes." Reverence, majesty, cathedrals and beautiful iconography are generally not a part of the world I love, which is Protestant evangelicalism. I need those things, but my tradition emphasizes the words of Scripture as the front and center and an encounter with Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit and among each other instead of reliance on ritualistic worship and the Eucharist.

I believe in general the churches are trying to achieve the same goal but have different ideas of what that culmination might be. For Catholics and Orthodox, taking the bread and wine is the culmination of experiencing Christ. From my point of view, that doesn't make sense and is actually kind of shallow, when you think that people are chewing on a wafer and thinking that that will somehow magically make them a disciple of Christ in the same way as a Christian who daily feasts on God's words, prays, fasts, does good, and fellowships with others.

Although we have lukewarmness and people attending church out of a sense of tradition in Protestantism, I believe this tendency is more pronounced among the Catholic and Orthodox because of the emphasis on tradition and this tendency to think that somehow chewing on a piece of bread is all you need to do to be a good Christian.

I know the John 6 interpretation and the fact that some early writers, even Paul, speak of the body and blood literally. I just think it's shallow to base the entire Christian life around that. Even the taking of communion at love feasts in the 1st century were done as a sign of community and shared love and commitment to Christ in my opinion, not as some sort of solemn ritual.

I don't believe there is any church alive that accurately represents the original Christian church because the original Christian church died. The church at Jerusalem, led by James the brother of Jesus, was the original Christian assembly. Probably Mary the mother of Jesus and some of the 12 apostles were part of this congregation. But the church died because it got too focused on Jewish observance and less on evangelism. We can see in the New Testament how Paul was really the one who spread the gospel across the known world. In his letter to the Galatians, Paul directly links the presence of evil Judaizers who influenced Peter and Barnabas to play the hypocrite by distancing themselves from Gentiles while eating, with the Jerusalem church. "Before certain men came from James, Peter would eat with the Gentiles. But once they came, he separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision." The Jerusalem church didn't come against Judaism from my understanding. They were more focused on preaching Jesus as Messiah and living peacefully among the Judeans. Eventually, the judgment of Jerusalem prophesied by Jesus came upon Jerusalem as Titus destroyed the city.

The reason we have Paul as the main promulgator of the gospel in the New Testament is because he was the one working the hardest to spread it to the known parts of the earth. A lot of the early believers in Jerusalem were content to just stay there and worship. We read in the book of Acts that it was only persecution that drove them out of the city and into other areas.

I've written a lot here, and I can write about 50 more pages, but I have come to realize that there is no Christian church which "has it all" for me. That's because there's a Savior who "has it all" for me. Like the dying thief on the cross, I don't want to cry out to the Orthodox or some other institutional, historic organization to save me. I know who will face me when I die and it won't be Rome, the pontiff, or the Orthodox leader in Antioch.

☦Marius☦ said:

Sadly this is more evidence that more Christians care about how they "feel" in church over genuine spiritual growth and silent prayer with the Holy Spirit. Think of the writing of the ten Commandments? Was God in the storm? Or in the earthquake? No. He was in the silent whisper.

Those who base what church they join solely on how it makes them feel will get only that--feelings; but less or no growth.

Click to expand...

I personally love the feeling I get from going to church but also am aware of being blessed with spiritual growth. I now spend more time in prayer, in reading and listening to Gods Word and hearing God. I know He loves me.

Pictured below is farmer I would work for in the hay field... Dallas would shout at work, shout in the hay field, and shout in church. He would also speak in tongues and run the aisles. He and his wife would operate a dairy farm and he would also work at the local ammunition plant. The joy in their experience made Christianity appealing to me as a teenager. A very large soul his shouting would ring through the building, and accompanied in his experience was a joy unspeakable and full of glory. During the altar services he would kneel behind me in prayer and tears would roll off his cheek and onto my shoulders. A wonderfully large soul. Along with Dallas there were many others like him who would let the praises roll during church service. During the altar service old Evans Linkous used to weep like a baby. And if he were to look back to catch the amazed look in my eye he would weep, "The Holy Ghost! The Holy Ghost!" And point to all the souls being blessed around the altar. After I experienced these things for myself the people would make a fuss, or in the words of the Apostle Paul, glorify God in me. One day, after a beautiful autumnal week of beautiful Virginia fall and revival I lay on my bed with open door, listening to the Katydids sing their praises to God, reading Run Baby Run, with fireflies lighting up the mountain as they would fly, and heard the Spirit ask... "Put the book down" and then continue, "Where is all that hatred, strife, and bad feeling?" In which examining my eternal man there was nothing there but sheer beauty. I thought to myself... Oh my! I got exactly what those folks got!



And in the words of George Clark Rankin, "It was the third Sunday in September, 1866 (in my case much later), and those Church vows became a living principle in my heart and life. During these forty-five long years, with their alternations of sunshine and shadow, daylight and darkness, success and failure, rejoicing and weeping, fears within and fightings without, I have never ceased to thank God for that autumnal day in the long ago when my name was registered in the Lamb's Book of Life." - The Life of George Clark Rankin

Cheryl6397 said:

Sadly some people used to leave the church before Mass had completely finished. Rarely did anyone spend time talking to each other before or after the service but where I go now people enjoy ongoing conversation, prayer and just spending time together. It doesnt end on a Sunday either. Connect groups encourage us to get together in the week to discuss the sermon, to pray for each other, to socialize and generally be Gods children

Click to expand...

And when I use to go to Mass in the Roman Catholic church, most of the ones I went to were like that too. Part of it is that there are so many people and in their small groups they were quite friendly, but there's something else too that unfortunately escapes the priests, etc and that I don't understand either. It's not because it's liturgical since protestant/semi-protestant churches that are liturgical aren't that way at all. Maybe it has to do with the number of people who wouldn't be there except that the precepts require it. I don't know.

jisaiah6113 said:

This subject is dear to my heart and as a Christian and someone who wants to commit himself completely as a disciple of Christ, it's concerning to me as the oneness my Lord prayed for has not occurred.

I attended a Coptic church for a few weeks. I finally got a job with Sundays off, so I'm concerned with finding a spiritual home to worship God and commune with other disciples. It was more based on an Egyptian culture and although no one was ever anything but kind towards me, it felt like there was an invisible wall that I would have to work hard to penetrate and I just wasn't interested. Today I attended a church more in line with my evangelical, Bible based upbringing. I had a great time and different churches emphasize different things.

The Coptic priest, in a class after Liturgy a few weeks ago, said about the Protestants, "we are united in love, but not in faith" as an expression of why Eucharist is denied them. That's a sad reality of the Christian world. I personally subscribe to the Branch theory (that all orthodox churches are expressions of Christ's faith and work on earth) despite its inherent contradictory conundrum. Many churches contradict each other, so to say they are all serving Christ in their own expression seems contradictory to the work of God and also undermines the claim of two church organizations which claim that they are the One and Only. That's why those churches have rejected this claim. Evangelical protestants generally don't have a problem with it.

I think in my case, the search for a perfect church experience is fleeting and ultimately vain unless I was to combine Protestant and Orthodox Divine Liturgy into one experience every Sunday. In my case, I have a need for a grand, majestic, weighty, holy, and formal experience of worshipping God. I feel the Catholic Mass is so climactic, especially as you approach the liturgy of the eucharist. I get their logic, that the Word of God leads to the "real event" which is Eucharist. Orthodox feel the same way, even though their liturgy is different.

I will stay Protestant because that's where I'm happiest. I decided to not become Catholic because the two most important ingredients in my conception of a Christian life were not there, nor were ever there for me. Joy and peace. Majesty, weightiness, reverence, and history were there. But not the peace of the Holy Spirit. That would be like marrying a woman who had beautiful fashion and incredible sophistication and social ability but lacked the gentle, quiet character that the Holy Spirit gives a woman. It would be a less than satisfying marriage. It's all about priorities.

Unfortunately, no one institutional church on Earth fulfills all the desires I have. No church checks "all the boxes." Reverence, majesty, cathedrals and beautiful iconography are generally not a part of the world I love, which is Protestant evangelicalism. I need those things, but my tradition emphasizes the words of Scripture as the front and center and an encounter with Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit and among each other instead of reliance on ritualistic worship and the Eucharist.

I believe in general the churches are trying to achieve the same goal but have different ideas of what that culmination might be. For Catholics and Orthodox, taking the bread and wine is the culmination of experiencing Christ. From my point of view, that doesn't make sense and is actually kind of shallow, when you think that people are chewing on a wafer and thinking that that will somehow magically make them a disciple of Christ in the same way as a Christian who daily feasts on God's words, prays, fasts, does good, and fellowships with others.

Although we have lukewarmness and people attending church out of a sense of tradition in Protestantism, I believe this tendency is more pronounced among the Catholic and Orthodox because of the emphasis on tradition and this tendency to think that somehow chewing on a piece of bread is all you need to do to be a good Christian.

I know the John 6 interpretation and the fact that some early writers, even Paul, speak of the body and blood literally. I just think it's shallow to base the entire Christian life around that. Even the taking of communion at love feasts in the 1st century were done as a sign of community and shared love and commitment to Christ in my opinion, not as some sort of solemn ritual.

I don't believe there is any church alive that accurately represents the original Christian church because the original Christian church died. The church at Jerusalem, led by James the brother of Jesus, was the original Christian assembly. Probably Mary the mother of Jesus and some of the 12 apostles were part of this congregation. But the church died because it got too focused on Jewish observance and less on evangelism. We can see in the New Testament how Paul was really the one who spread the gospel across the known world. In his letter to the Galatians, Paul directly links the presence of evil Judaizers who influenced Peter and Barnabas to play the hypocrite by distancing themselves from Gentiles while eating, with the Jerusalem church. "Before certain men came from James, Peter would eat with the Gentiles. But once they came, he separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision." The Jerusalem church didn't come against Judaism from my understanding. They were more focused on preaching Jesus as Messiah and living peacefully among the Judeans. Eventually, the judgment of Jerusalem prophesied by Jesus came upon Jerusalem as Titus destroyed the city.

The reason we have Paul as the main promulgator of the gospel in the New Testament is because he was the one working the hardest to spread it to the known parts of the earth. A lot of the early believers in Jerusalem were content to just stay there and worship. We read in the book of Acts that it was only persecution that drove them out of the city and into other areas.

I've written a lot here, and I can write about 50 more pages, but I have come to realize that there is no Christian church which "has it all" for me. That's because there's a Savior who "has it all" for me. Like the dying thief on the cross, I don't want to cry out to the Orthodox or some other institutional, historic organization to save me. I know who will face me when I die and it won't be Rome, the pontiff, or the Orthodox leader in Antioch.

Click to expand...

You've made an interesting point. I have attended both Orthodox and Catholic churches, as well as Evangelical. For years.

What I think many Evangelical Christians do is mistake liveliness or outward excitement and vocality for spiritual growth or a deepening holiness.

Some of the quietest souls are the holiest. We can not see into another's heart, how God is saving them, how deeply they love Christ, how much they have suffered or are suffering for Him.

We can not see into the inner workings of the soul following Christ. We can see outward excitement and loudness and hear many words, but we can not see how the soul is being saved by God, and conformed to the image of Christ.

Brigid63 said:

And when I use to be in the Roman Catholic church, most of the ones I went to were like that too. Part of it is that there are so many people and in their small groups they were quite friendly, but there's something else too that unfortunately escapes the priests, etc and that I don't understand either. It's not because it's liturgical since protestant/semi-protestant churches that are liturgical aren't that way at all. Maybe it has to do with the number of people who wouldn't be there except that the precepts require it. I don't know.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately cliches were too common in my old parish church and new comers, outsiders, were often not included. The love that is extended to everyone in church now is genuine and refreshing. God is certainly in the midst

Lots of posts in this thread seem to boil down to...

Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner that repenteth. - Luke 15:10

I have an African American brother at work tell me that two got saved in church yesterday morning and you could sense the genuine joy about him. If you ever are in service where souls are getting saved you can sense the angelic joy in service.

I used to hear Pastor John MacArthur compare some Christians as the, "Cosmic killjoys of the universe." Why I did not like the analogy, in some cases this is regrettably true!

friend of said:

First was Catholic. I used to be one. But man, it was not a great time. Their idea of mass is all wrong. Its ritual repetitiveness is not my idea of a breathing Church at all. The pastor got up and said a few things and then everyone is forced to give the exact same responses throughout the procession. The hymns are still nice, but the atmosphere is depressing to say the least. It was like being in the assembly of the dead, that was the feeling.

Then I went to my protestant church with the guitars and joyful hymns. With the off-the-cuff pastors preaching the word into my life. This was much more comforting and indeed relevant to my christian walk than the hyper ritualized mass of RCC. Where we talked about community projects openly and took the sacraments in unison.

I want to encourage every Catholic on here to please try going to a protestant church at least once. Just to see how different it is. I think you're going to find it much more liberating.

Click to expand...

Churches that based their worship in feelings are most likely to be empty and to exclude men.

rockytopva said:

I used to hear Pastor John MacArthur compare some Christians as the, "Cosmic killjoys of the universe." Why I did not like the analogy, in some cases this is regrettably true!

Click to expand...

True joy comes from humble service between Christians and unity with Christ and his teachings. In faithful repentance. No rock concert, or fiery preaching, or even laying on of the hands can substitute. The problem is most Christians have never experienced true Joy, so they cannot tell the difference between it and momentary ecstasy.

Why did the Lord punish Israel?

Because thou servedst not the Lord thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all things; - Deuteronomy 28:47

And... Our strength lies in our joy...

Then he said unto them, Go your way, eat the fat, and drink the sweet, and send portions unto them for whom nothing is prepared: for this day is holy unto our Lord: neither be ye sorry; for the joy of the Lord is your strength. - Nehemiah 8:10

And why should Israel's punishment worry us, in that case? We have much more to be glad in than they did in the time before our Lord's coming!

All the joy I need is right here, and it's not based in my (or anyone else's) feelings:


All ye heavenly multitudes
sing unto our God melodies of praise
Rejoice with us today with gladness
in the resurrection of the Lord Christ