Homeless in California

mukk_in said:

Folks, you be the judge.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...c31a5c-d98e-11e9-a688-303693fb4b0b_story.html

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Can't read it if you don't have a WP subscription.

derpytia said:

Can't read it if you don't have a WP subscription.

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You can choose the ''free'' option. Unless you've used up your quota of free articles for the month.

I hope you're well @derpytia I haven't seen your posts so much lately or maybe just not prayer wall posts (which is mostly what I read these days). It's nice to see you <3

This is the dog eat dog society most Americans seem to want ? Freedom to get stinking rich and buy politicians or get poor for whatever reason and die on the street. No dirty socialism. Sink or swim. Succeed or die.

It is harsh but if if you freeze to death in a park bench somewhere at least you did it as a citizen of a superpower.

That should give great comfort during the last moments. Apart from the superpower status I gather it is pretty much the same in Russia.

Jonathan Walkerin said:

This is the dog eat dog society most Americans seem to want ?

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What does this have to do with a homeless problem in CA?

Freedom to get stinking rich and buy politicians or get poor for whatever reason and die on the street. No dirty socialism. Sink or swim. Succeed or die.

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What does this have to do with a homeless problem in CA?

I mean, if you just have a beef with the US, fine, otherwise you should offer some connection between the OP's article with the observation of a homeless problem in CA and your random claims.

Yekcidmij said:

What does this have to do with a homeless problem in CA?

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So you figure that the distaste for government freebies, lack of decent healthcare for the poor and the attitude that people are poor because they do not work hard or something has nothing to do with making people homeless whatever in California or elsewhere ?

Even the article quite plainly explains that attitudes towards the homeless and poor people is hardening.

That is what it has to do with homeless in California.

Jonathan Walkerin said:

So you figure that the distaste for government freebies, lack of decent healthcare for the poor and the attitude that people are poor because they do not work hard or something has nothing to do with making people homeless whatever in California or elsewhere ?

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I dunno. They're your claims. I'm not offering evidence on your behalf. And you're really just making it worse for yourself. You claim a connection between a CA homeless problem and:

- dog eat dog society
- rich buying politicians
- sink or swim
- no dirty socialism
- distaste for gov't freebies
- lack of decent healthcare
- attitude that poor people are poor because they don't work hard or something

So your claims about a cause to a CA homeless problem just seem to keep stacking up. It's almost as if you're tying to make some ideological statements about America in general where the problem was rather specifically a homeless problem in CA.

Yekcidmij said:

It's almost as if you're tying to make some ideological statements about America in general where the problem was rather specifically a homeless problem in CA.

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So your claim would be that homeless problem in rest of the US is fundamentally different than in CA ?

Hi mukk,

Well, to quote a well known person who spoke recently: "They should go back to their own homes and fix the problems there first, and then come and show us how it's done."

I'm not sure that's verbatim, but...

Isn't Donald Trump's home New York? Except that the weather is terrible in the winter, New York has at least as bad a problem with homelessness as any California city. I think Mr. Trump should show us how it's done by working to fix the problem in his own hometown before railing about the failures of other government entities that just aren't any better at fixing the problem than the government entities of New York City.

According to the Coalition for the Homeless, there were, as of July 2019, over 61,000 homeless people wandering the city of New York. Here's their full accounting:

In July 2019, there were 61,054 homeless people, including 14,621 homeless families with 21,419 homeless children, sleeping each night in the New York City municipal shelter system. Families make up nearly three-quarters of the homeless shelter population.

From another group that tallies the similar numbers in Los Angeles:

According to the Los Angeles Homeless Services Authority, in 2019, approximately 50,000 to 60,000 persons may be found homeless on any given night in Los Angeles County, more than 44,000 of them on the streets.

So, I just think that if President Trump really wants to show us how much he's able to deal with homelessness, either by imprisoning such people or killing them or whatever it is he claims to have some plan to deal with the issue, he should start in New York and just show us all how it's done. Personally, I don't know how you 'make people have enough money and desire to live in some home'. Are we going to increase the governments welfare program to build more homeless shelters and 'force', by police arrest of those who choose not to go, to go? Are we going to just dole out money to people who claim to be or appear to be homeless so that they can then rent a home and pay their rent for them?

Don't we already do these things to some extent and we still have a homeless problem? I don't mean to sound mean or heartless, but seeing how we've tried to address the homeless problem for years in different ways of providing monies for rent and providing shelters for living off the street, it seems like the only way of really getting rid of the problem is to reintroduce the gas chambers of Nazi Germany. Let's get rid of the undesirables just as Adolph Hitler's plan did it. Or we could have public firing squads. Round up the homeless each night and take them to some pit in the middle of the city and just start killing them with assault style weapons and then cover them with lime and cover them up and do it all again the next day.

Personally, as is quite common with President Trump, he enjoys railing against real or perceived problems and is quite good at pointing out all of our failures. However, he just always seems to come up short on any better way to solve such problems. Two and a half years and we've gotten one new trade agreement that isn't particularly better for the U.S., and hasn't yet been ratified and made law. We're fighting almost every nation that we trade with and while he assures us that he has a better plan, he doesn't seem to be willing to show or tell anyone what that better plan is.

So, as I say, before he goes off making enemies trying to 'fix' a problem that he thinks everyone else has, I'd encourage him to fix the one in his own hometown first and then show us all how it should be done in other cities and towns that struggle with the same issues. As was his very advice to a group of lawmakers just recently.

It seems rather sad that from his golden tower home he can see the muslims chanting in Newark, but he cant' seem to see the homeless sleeping on park benches and doorways and under bridges in his own hometown.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Jonathan Walkerin said:

So your claim would be that homeless problem in rest of the US is fundamentally different than in CA ?

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You made the claims. I'm afraid you efforts to turn you claims into a question in an attempt to remove your burden of sufficient reason will not work.

mukk_in said:

Folks, you be the judge.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...c31a5c-d98e-11e9-a688-303693fb4b0b_story.html

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Usually government officials who have failed to solve problems will slap away a helping hand.

CA better watch out. Trump may just find company with many sick of the local pols failure to address the crisis. I won’t make CA red, but some districts the Democrats turned in 2018 just may swing the other way.

On one hand the U.S. government and states provide food, clothing and shelter for the homeless and on the other hand there are many situations that cause concern for their treatment outside of the aid provided by those institutions. Things like if they try to sleep in a city park they will be harassed by police which often escalates to other charges.

Isn't homelessness virtually nonexistent in history 'when' opportunity for creating a better life is available as it is in the U.S.? It seems to me there must be something intrinsically wrong within the American culture, most likely starting with the family nucleus that is causing or at least adding to the already broken soul of this fallen human condition. One of the highest causes for homelessness in the U.S. is addiction to either or both alcohol and drugs (legal or illegal) which points (to me) as a means to self medicate underlining emotional issues.

I do think when capitalism and individualism are first and foremost over community and morality (love thy neighbor) it causes an already bent soul to turn inward.

Hi tigger,

You asked a question and I'm anxious to hear the response:

Tigger45 said:

Isn't homelessness virtually nonexistent in history 'when' opportunity for creating a better life is available as it is in the U.S.?

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Is homelessness virtually nonexistent 'when' opportunity for creating a better life is available? Is there some historical evidence that would show that's a true statement?

I offer:

In 2016, it estimated there were 255,000 homeless people in England alone, a figure it subsequently adjusted to 294,000 for Britain. This rose to 307,000 in 2017.Nov 21, 2018.

Is it your contention that Great Britain must not have opportunities for creating a better life? Or is your claim questionable?

It is estimated that some 35k people are homeless in Sweden. Does Sweden not offer opportunities for creating a better life? Before you say that 35k is a negligible amount, thereby possibly proving your point, the overall population of Sweden is about 9 million. The overall population of NYC is about 8 million. There really isn't a whole lot of difference in the per capita totals.

In fact, Russia, which I would think most people would think of as a nation that doesn't offer opportunities for creating a better life, at least not like the U.S., has a homeless population that is much, much lower than ours. Russia claims to only have about 65k people homeless on any given night, while the U.S. offers up 554k people that are homeless on that same night.

Surprisingly, or not, Japan wins!!! They not only have the least violent citizens, but about the lowest per capita rate of homelessness. Japan claims that only some 5k people are on the streets on a given night and with a population of some 127 million, that equates to about .0039%. Maybe we could get President Trump to listen (hahahahahahahahah, like that would ever happen) to Abe.

So, I'd be interested in reviewing your evidence that would lead you to ask such a rhetorical question?

God bless,
In Christ, ted

Yekcidmij said:

You made the claims. I'm afraid you efforts to turn you claims into a question in an attempt to remove your burden of sufficient reason will not work.

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Actually you made the claim that the problem was specifally the homeless in CA (the bolded part). Try to keep track.

Yekcidmij said:

It's almost as if you're tying to make some ideological statements about America in general where the problem was rather specifically a homeless problem in CA.

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As others have shown the problems of the homeless seem to go way beyond CA.

Jonathan Walkerin said:

Actually you made the claim that the problem was specifally the homeless in CA (the bolded part). Try to keep track.

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The OP was about homelessness problems in CA.

As others have shown the problems of the homeless seem to go way beyond CA.

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And now it looks like you just added another claim - homeless in CA is causally related to homelessness everywhere else. I'm not naive enough to assume that a homeless problem in [parts of] CA is causally related to homelessness anywhere and everywhere else. That's you that does that. You still haven't provided support for anything either.

Yekcidmij said:

I'm not naive enough to assume

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I think your problem is more that you are boring. Welcome to be the first person in my ignore list.

Jonathan Walkerin said:

I think your problem is more that you are boring. Welcome to be the first person in my ignore list.

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So no supporting evidence forthcoming. Got it.

It a huge humanitarian crisis in California. 75% of their homeless live on the streets, and elsewhere those numbers are far lower. Some are there due to loss of jobs, and people don't realize how close people are to being homeless over that. Sky rocking housing prices and taxes doesn't help. Then of course you have drugs and mental illness issues.

It's causing a crisis for small business owners when people are afraid to come down to their place business due to be accosted by individuals with major issues on the streets. They state/cities have also changed policies so that certain crimes are ignored, and in other circumstances the price for crime is basically a revolving door in and out of the jail in less than day. No help for the drug issues or mental illness, and the homeless without those issues are extremely vulnerable themselves living in tents among those with those issues. I mean their systems don't protect anyone, and you are more vulnerable in their positions. It's awful! Those poor people - all of them.

They are basically helping no one. People have complained for years on how hard it is to build housing, etc to help this issue. The government does nothing to make it easier. Yet, they want to say it is the housing crisis that causes this. There is clearly more to it than that, but there are some serious blinders on people. In a place that screams about income inequality in many cases the loudest? Those voices don't seem to be helping anyone, and all will suffer. Their income inequality is emorous there, and they seem helpless to do anything with this humanitarian crisis.

miamited said:

Hi tigger,

You asked a question and I'm anxious to hear the response:



Is homelessness virtually nonexistent 'when' opportunity for creating a better life is available? Is there some historical evidence that would show that's a true statement?

I offer:

In 2016, it estimated there were 255,000 homeless people in England alone, a figure it subsequently adjusted to 294,000 for Britain. This rose to 307,000 in 2017.Nov 21, 2018.

Is it your contention that Great Britain must not have opportunities for creating a better life? Or is your claim questionable?

It is estimated that some 35k people are homeless in Sweden. Does Sweden not offer opportunities for creating a better life? Before you say that 35k is a negligible amount, thereby possibly proving your point, the overall population of Sweden is about 9 million. The overall population of NYC is about 8 million. There really isn't a whole lot of difference in the per capita totals.

In fact, Russia, which I would think most people would think of as a nation that doesn't offer opportunities for creating a better life, at least not like the U.S., has a homeless population that is much, much lower than ours. Russia claims to only have about 65k people homeless on any given night, while the U.S. offers up 554k people that are homeless on that same night.

Surprisingly, or not, Japan wins!!! They not only have the least violent citizens, but about the lowest per capita rate of homelessness. Japan claims that only some 5k people are on the streets on a given night and with a population of some 127 million, that equates to about .0039%. Maybe we could get President Trump to listen (hahahahahahahahah, like that would ever happen) to Abe.

So, I'd be interested in reviewing your evidence that would lead you to ask such a rhetorical question?

God bless,
In Christ, ted

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Well my friend I apologize if my statement seemed isolated to the U.S. The imperative word I was working off of was 'history'. California and by extension the U.S. is just a great case point being that it's been labeled as "The land of opportunity". England, Sweden and Japan are also a part of the industrial revolution even if not exact mirror images of the U.S. and I would think are effected similarly. Japan might not have as high homelessness levels as the others mentioned but are high on the suicide rate which I would think is a symptom of the same ailment.

Tigger45 said:

Well my friend I apologize if my statement seemed isolated to the U.S. The imperative word I was working off of was 'history'. California and by extension the U.S. is just a great case point being that it's been labeled as "The land of opportunity". England, Sweden and Japan are also a part of the industrial revolution even if not exact mirror images of the U.S. and I would think are effected similarly. Japan might not have as high homelessness levels as the others mentioned but are high on the suicide rate which I would think is a symptom of the same ailment.

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Hi tigger,

Ok, I'm down with that. Give me your historical examples where there wasn't any homelessness in the past because a nation offered opportunities. However, you're going to have to go back further than, oh, 500 years, at least, if there are any such examples. England has had homeless as far back as the writing of Oliver Twist, at least. The U.S. has also always had some homeless at least in all of the 20th century. I believe, that in our large cities such as Boston, New York and Philadelphia, there are accounts of a certain number of homeless going back even through the 19th century.

I'm just not so convinced that there really is a verifiable correlation between nationalistic opportunity, and homelessness. Today, the U.S. has a plethora of opportunity. There are jobs going wanting because there aren't enough qualified workers to fill positions. We invent and improve, especially in technology, new devices that provide opportunities by the hundreds pretty much every year.

25 years ago there was no Amazon. 30 years ago there was no Dell. 40 years ago there was no Microsoft. All of these companies with their thousands of jobs that didn't even exist before they came to be, have been opportunities offered in our nation. We started Japan and China on their own quests for opportunities. The U.S. has always been a leader in economic opportunities. Yet we've always had homelessness.

There just always has been a certain segment of pretty much every society, that wasn't able or willing to grab the brass ring. It has also always been a bigger problem in the larger urban areas than in the suburban or rural areas. I remember at least a couple of Andy Griffith episodes that dealt with someone living in the woods in Mayberry.

Homelessness has always been a major social issue in our large urban areas. There have been homeless shelters in Miami since 1969. New York's Bowery Mission opened up in 1879. A quick check of other major city centers will have places established for the homeless to find rest within those dates. So, homelessness is not a new problem and it has, so far, proved to be pretty much unsolvable in these large urban areas.

So, I would applaud President Trump to certainly spend some money and effort to address this problem, but before he goes off telling other cities that it's their fault for having the problem, I'd ask him to look out his tower windows of his gold plated mansion and see that the problem is just as big in NYC as it is in pretty much any other large city. I'd encourage him to start with fixing the problem in his own hometown and then show us how it's done...Just as he has encouraged other lawmakers to do the same.

God bless,
In Christ, ted