"peace and safety" and the red horse

Douggg · Aug 31, 2019

Dave L said:
But you cannot say it is true unless if happens.

Dave, I can say the scriptures are true. I am not trying to present a untrue interpretation. I think a better way to put it, is that I will be proven right or wrong, eventually. Others can certainly reject, or agree, with me in whole or in part. They also can post their reason why or why not. Which is the fundamental principle of discussion.

Pedra · Aug 31, 2019

Dave L said:
But you cannot say it is true unless if happens.

So, by your standard for eg. then those who claim replacement theology are false prophets ---Ok.

DamianWarS · Aug 31, 2019

Dave L said:
But you cannot say it is true unless if happens.

The definition of faith would disagree. I think we should be looking for balance here. I don't see it wrong to hypothesize, even enthusiastically, but transparency should always be maintained so we are clear what parts are scripture and what parts are interpretation of scripture.

eleos1954 · Aug 31, 2019

Douggg said:
The daily sacrifice is begun again, then at a certain time the person commits the transgression of desolation by sitting then temple, then the person is killed, then the person is brought back to life as the beast, then the image of the beast is made and placed in the temple as the abomination of desolation, then the Jews flee to the mountains, then the two witnesses are killed, then the two witnesses are brought back to life and ascend to heaven, then the 7th trumpet sounds, then the war in the second heaven as God begins dismantling Satan's kingdom of Mystery Babylon the Great, then Satan is cast down to earth having a time, times, half time left, cast down to earth then Satan incarnates the statue image of the beast which was placed in the temple, then everyone is required to worship the image or be killed, then the Great Tribulation continues, until Jesus returns to end it, and cleanses the temple.

Jesus will cleanse the temple of...

1. the beast sitting in the temple - the beast and the false prophet cast alive into the lake of fire.

2. the statue image of the beast - turned to ashes, Ezekiel 28:16-19, exposing Satan.

3. Satan - bound in chains and cast into the bottomless pit.

The daily sacrifice is begun again, then at a certain time the person commits the transgression of desolation by sitting then temple, then the person is killed, then the person is brought back to life as the beast, then the image of the beast is made and placed in the temple as the abomination of desolation, then the Jews flee to the mountains, then the two witnesses are killed, then the two witnesses are brought back to life and ascend to heaven, then the 7th trumpet sounds, then the war in the second heaven as God begins dismantling Satan's kingdom of Mystery Babylon the Great, then Satan is cast down to earth having a time, times, half time left, cast down to earth then Satan incarnates the statue image of the beast which was placed in the temple, then everyone is required to worship the image or be killed, then the Great Tribulation continues, until Jesus returns to end it, and cleanses the temple.

Click to expand...

Please provide scriptures that support all this?

Christ is Lord · Aug 31, 2019

DamianWarS said:
The definition of faith would disagree. I think we should be looking for balance here. I don't see it wrong to hypothesize, even enthusiastically, but transparency should always be maintained so we are clear what parts are scripture and what parts are interpretation of scripture.

What definition of faith?

Douggg · Aug 31, 2019

@ eleos1954 You wrote, "Please provide scriptures that support all this?"

That's actually a great idea. But I would have to do it by starting individual threads on each element on my chart. For now I think my opening post deals with the topic of this thread.

Dave L · Aug 31, 2019

DamianWarS said:
The definition of faith would disagree. I think we should be looking for balance here. I don't see it wrong to hypothesize, even enthusiastically, but transparency should always be maintained so we are clear what parts are scripture and what parts are interpretation of scripture.

Faith comes from hearing the word, not speculating on it.

tranquil · Aug 31, 2019

Douggg said:
In 2Thessalonians2:4, the beginning of the Day of the Lord is triggered by the Antichrist going into the temple, sitting, claiming to have achieved God-hood. Revealing himself as the man of sin.

Why does the day of the Lord begin with the antichrist calling himself God?

Dave L · Aug 31, 2019

Pedra said:
So, by your standard for eg. then those who claim replacement theology are false prophets ---Ok.

Replacement theology is false prophecy.

Removal Theology not Replacement Theology

Dave L · Aug 31, 2019

Douggg said:
Dave, I can say the scriptures are true. I am not trying to present a untrue interpretation. I think a better way to put it, is that I will be proven right or wrong, eventually. Others can certainly reject, or agree, with me in whole or in part. They also can post their reason why or why not. Which is the fundamental principle of discussion.

It is false prophecy unless scripture says it. You must wait to see the outcome.

Christ is Lord · Aug 31, 2019

While I understand why people do study end-times prophecy I think we need to accept that certain things we cannot be 100% sure. I view a lot of end-times prophecy with a grain of salt. I believe just as how the prophecies concerning the Messiah were not completely understood until there are fulfilled in Jesus so will it be with prophecies in Revelation.

Christ is Lord · Aug 31, 2019

Dave L said:
It is false prophecy unless scripture says it. You must wait to see the outcome.

Are you saying that my current interpretation which is based on scripture is false prophecy because we have to wait to see the outcome?

EDIT: If that is the case (I am assuming here) don't you think it would be better to threat them as neutral? Because what happens when times goes on my my interpretation turns out to be true you run of risk of calling God a liar. Don't you think?

Pedra · Aug 31, 2019

Dave L said:
Replacement theology is false prophecy.

What I'm saying Dave is if you jump to call someone who is speculating about certain things in Rev, a "False Prophet" then , you yourself can be called a False prophet as you also fit also into that category for claiming the Church replaced Israel .
If we are fair and judge you by your own measure.....

Dave L · Aug 31, 2019

Pedra said:
What I'm saying Dave is if you jump to call someone who is speculating about certain things in Rev, a "False Prophet" then , you yourself can be called a False prophet as you also fit also into that category for claiming the Church replaced Israel .
If we are fair and judge you by your own measure.....

Is it lying to say what scripture does not say? And then say scripture says so?

Dave L · Aug 31, 2019

Christ is Lord said:
Are you saying that my current interpretation which is based on scripture is false prophecy because we have to wait to see the outcome?

EDIT: If that is the case (I am assuming here) don't you think it would be better to threat them as neutral? Because what happens when times goes on my my interpretation turns out to be true you run of risk of calling God a liar. Don't you think?

If scripture says so, you can have faith because faith comes from hearing the word. If you say something scripture does not say, you mislead people. And damage those you speak to when it fails.

Christ is Lord · Aug 31, 2019

Dave L said:
If scripture says so, you can have faith because faith comes from hearing the word. If you say something scripture does not say, you mislead people. And damage those you speak to when it fails.

The Old Testament prophecies also never explicitly said Jesus was the Messiah. When Jesus interpreted and spoke to the disciples and explained to them from the OT how he fulfilled those prophecies none of them explicitly said he was the Messiah.

Dave L · Aug 31, 2019

Christ is Lord said:
The Old Testament prophecies also never explicitly said Jesus was the Messiah. When Jesus interpreted and spoke to the disciples and explained to them from the OT how he fulfilled those prophecies none of them explicitly said he was the Messiah.

But you are not him. He interpreted them for us so we don't turn into false prophets.

Douggg · Aug 31, 2019

tranquil said:
Why does the day of the Lord begin with the antichrist calling himself God?

In 1Thessalonians5, Paul introduces the concept of saying peace and safety before the Day of the Lord begins, unexpectedly

In 2Thessalonians2, Paul clarifies that the Day of the Lord (called the day of Christ) is also preceded by two other things. The falling away first and then the revealing of the man of sin, the son of perdition.

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The falling away (implied to be falling away from believing that Jesus is the messiah) will be many in Christianity will turn away from Jesus and believe that the Antichrist is the "real messiah". If you talk to Jews (Judaism), that's how they refer to the person, because they reject Jesus, the person forthcoming
as the "real messiah".

When the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, showing that he is God - actually what is implied is that he is showing that he has achieved God-hood. Where do I get that?

From Ezekiel 28:1-10, which is about God having the person killed for the act of sitting in what metaphorically is the seat of God. The passage indicates that the person has magnified himself in his
heart (going back to Daniel 8:25) to think that he is "a" god, and claims to be God at the same time.

I am going by the KJV.

Ezekiel 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

Now reflect back on Daniel 8:25. This is how you can tie the verses together. And see what is going to happen.

Daniel 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

So once the person claims to have achieved God-hood, it angers God, Who in Ezekiel 28:1-10 has the person killed, by strangers, who slay him, which I connect as peace is taken from the earth, when the person triggers the Day of the Lord, with his act.

6 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.*

8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.

9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.

So it is God who has him killed.

*Prior to the person going off on the deep end and claiming to be God, the Jews and the world will be thinking he is the "real messiah".

Christ is Lord · Aug 31, 2019

Dave L said:
But you are not him. He interpreted them for us so we don't turn into false prophets.

Of course I am not Jesus. However, you're using the logic that if someone reads prophecy and comes up with an interpretation that they believe God is showing them then it's false prophecy because for example the Bible doesn't explicitly say "European union".

Using that logic if I were in the room when Jesus gave that interpretation I could have said It was false because again "scripture doesn't explicitly say so".

Who are we to call it a false prophecy just because the Bible doesn't explicitly say so? Don't you think to wait until time passes and then judge it by it's fruits?

Douggg · Aug 31, 2019

Dave L said:
Faith comes from hearing the word, not speculating on it.

Dave, I think I would look at Hebrews 11.

"peace and safety" and the red horse

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