Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 26, 2019

How compelling is Josephus' writings concerning the 70 weeks and the 70ad Olivet Discourse as mentioned by this Commentator?

Daniel's Seventy Weeks

Philip Mauro: The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation (1921)
Continue reading

Philip Mauro: The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation (1921)

A Study of the Last Two Visions of Daniel, and of the Olivet Discourse of the Lord Jesus Christ

“Writings and addresses on prophecy always excite interest, because they appeal to the element of curiosity which is prominent in human nature. But such writings and addresses are of benefit only so far as they rightly interpret the Scripture. In the case of unfulfilled prophecy this is oftentimes a matter of difficulty; while on the other hand writers on prophetic themes are under constant temptation to indulge in surmises and speculations, and even in flights of imagination. Much has been put forth as interpretation of prophecy which is utterly unproved, but which could not be disproved except, as in cases where dates have been set for the coming of Christ, by the event itself.”

Philip Mauro wrote these words just after the turn of the century. At this time, the popular Scofield Reference Bible had just appeared on the Christian book market with its claim to restore “Dispensational truth” to the Church. With great skill and readability, Mauro’s work aptly repudiates the “parenthesis theory” that has been perpetuated even in our own day by modern Dispensational writers on prophecy, and lays the foundation of what the biblical teaching concerning the destiny of the nation of Israel...................................

But now (in Christ’s day) they despised the words of God spoken by His Son; they mocked Him; and finally they betrayed Him and put Him to death. Who can measure the enormity of this crime? But there was even more. For not only did they reject Christ in Person, but they subsequently rejected, persecuted, killed, and crucified those whom the risen Lord sent to them with the offer of mercy in the Gospel. Christ included this in the iniquity He charged against them; and He said that thereby they would fill up the measure of their fathers.

The apostle Paul was one of those messengers who thus suffered at their hands. Speaking of this wickedness of the Jews he said:

“Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men; forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, TO FILL UP THEIR SINS ALWAY; FOR THE WRATH IS COME UPON THEM TO THE UTTERMOST” (#1Th 2:16).

Thus we are distinctly informed, both by the Lord Himself, and by His servant Paul, (1) that the sin and iniquity of that generation of Jews went far beyond the evil deeds of their fathers; and (2) that the “wrath” which was then about to be poured out upon them was to be “to the uttermost.”

concluding Comments
Edersheim on Matthew XXIV-The Four Divisions of the Prophecy-The Beginning of Sorrows-A Strong and Illuminating Contrast-The Two Illustrative Parables: The Figtree and The Man Taking a Far Journey-Signs in the Sun, Moon and Stars-The Times of the Gentiles.

APPENDIX
The Seventy Weeks and the Great Tribulation
(1921) By Philip Mauro
CHAPTER I
PRINCIPLES THAT SHOULD GOVERN IN THE INTERPRETATION OF PROPHECY

Our object in the present series of papers is to bring before our readers some results of recent studies of the prophecy of The Seventy Weeks (Daniel 9), and of the Lord’s discourse on Mount Olivet (Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21), in which He applied and expanded a part of that prophecy.

Writings and addresses on prophecy always excite interest, because they appeal to the element of curiosity which is prominent in human nature. But such writings and addresses are of benefit only so far as they rightly interpret the Scripture. In the case of unfulfilled prophecy this is oftentimes a matter of difficulty; while on the other hand writers on prophetic themes are under constant temptation to indulge in Surmises and speculations, and even in flights of imagination. Much has been put forth as interpretation of prophecy which is utterly unproved, but which could not be disproved except, as in cases where dates have been set for the coming of Christ, by the event itself.................

It is interesting in this connection to see how this matter was understood by learned Jews in ancient times. Thus we find recorded in the history of Josephus (1) that Cyrus wrote throughout all his dominions that “God Almighty hath appointed me to be king of the habitable earth” and that “He indeed foretold my name by the prophets, and that I should build Him a house at Jerusalem which is in the country of Judea.” Josephus goes on to say that, when Cyrus had read the words of the prophet Isaiah, “He called for the most eminent Jews in Babylon and said to them, that he gave them leave to go back to their own country, and TO REBUILD THEIR CITY JERUSALEM AND THE TEMPLE OF GOD.”

Josephus also gives a copy of a letter written by Cyrus to the governors that were in Syria, which letter begins as follows: “King Cyrus to Sisinnes and Sathrabuzzanes, sendeth greeting.

I have given leave to as many of the Jews that dwell in my country as please [to do so) to return to their own country, and TO REBUILD THE CITY, AND TO REBUILD THE TEMPLE, OF GOD AT JERUSALEM on the same place where it was before” (Ant. Bk. XI, Ch. 1, sec. I & 3).

jgr · Aug 26, 2019

Biblewriter said:
We have been around and around on this before. And I have presented CONCLUSIVE PROOF that what you are saying here is simply not true. You have seen this proof. Yet you continue to spew your disinformation.

Better exhume your esteemed dispensational brother Clarence Larkin and inform him that he was spewing disinformation:

"The "Futurist School" interprets the language of the Apocalypse "literally," except such symbols as are named as such, and holds that the whole of the Book, from the end of the third chapter, is yet "future" and unfulfilled, and that the greater part of the Book, from the beginning of chapter six to the end of chapter nineteen, describes what shall come to pass during the last week of "Daniel's Seventy Weeks." This view, while it dates in modern times only from the close of the Sixteenth Century, is really the most ancient of the three. It was held in many of its prominent features by the primitive Fathers of the Church, and is one of the early interpretations of scripture truth that sunk into oblivion with the growth of Papacy, and that has been restored to the Church in these last times. In its present form it may be said to have originated at the end of the Sixteenth Century with the Jesuit Ribera, who, actuated by the same motive as the Jesuit Alcazar, sought to rid the Papacy of the stigma of being called the "Antichrist," and so referred the prophecies of the Apocalypse to the distant future. This view was accepted by the Roman Catholic Church and was for a long time confined to it, but, strange to say, it has wonderfully revived since the beginning of the Nineteenth Century, and that among Protestants. It is the most largely accepted of the three views. It has been charged with ignoring the Papal and Mohammedan systems, but this is far from the truth, for it looks upon them as foreshadowed in the scriptures, and sees in them the "Type" of those great "Anti-Types" yet future, the "Beast" and the "False Prophet." The "Futurist" interpretation of scripture is the one employed in this book."

How about that.

The commissioned fabrications of a counter-reformationist high priest of the historical apostate papacy, “wonderfully revived” and embraced with rapturous ecstasy by the prophetic modernism of dispensational futurism.

It just doesn't get any better than that.

Biblewriter · Aug 27, 2019

jgr said:
Better exhume your esteemed dispensational brother Clarence Larkin and inform him that he was spewing disinformation:

"The "Futurist School" interprets the language of the Apocalypse "literally," except such symbols as are named as such, and holds that the whole of the Book, from the end of the third chapter, is yet "future" and unfulfilled, and that the greater part of the Book, from the beginning of chapter six to the end of chapter nineteen, describes what shall come to pass during the last week of "Daniel's Seventy Weeks." This view, while it dates in modern times only from the close of the Sixteenth Century, is really the most ancient of the three. It was held in many of its prominent features by the primitive Fathers of the Church, and is one of the early interpretations of scripture truth that sunk into oblivion with the growth of Papacy, and that has been restored to the Church in these last times. In its present form it may be said to have originated at the end of the Sixteenth Century with the Jesuit Ribera, who, actuated by the same motive as the Jesuit Alcazar, sought to rid the Papacy of the stigma of being called the "Antichrist," and so referred the prophecies of the Apocalypse to the distant future. This view was accepted by the Roman Catholic Church and was for a long time confined to it, but, strange to say, it has wonderfully revived since the beginning of the Nineteenth Century, and that among Protestants. It is the most largely accepted of the three views. It has been charged with ignoring the Papal and Mohammedan systems, but this is far from the truth, for it looks upon them as foreshadowed in the scriptures, and sees in them the "Type" of those great "Anti-Types" yet future, the "Beast" and the "False Prophet." The "Futurist" interpretation of scripture is the one employed in this book."

How about that.

The commissioned fabrications of a counter-reformationist high priest of the historical apostate papacy, “wonderfully revived” and embraced with rapturous ecstasy by the prophetic modernism of dispensational futurism.

It just doesn't get any better than that.

Quoting someone who had been deceived by the propaganda WHOLLY fails to discredit the HARD PROOF I have already presented that this claim is simply false.

jgr · Aug 27, 2019

Biblewriter said:
Quoting someone who had been deceived by the propaganda WHOLLY fails to discredit the HARD PROOF I have already presented that this claim is simply false.

What recognized dispensationalists have repudiated Larkin's claim?

Quotes, names, and dates; please.

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 27, 2019

jgr said:
Better exhume your esteemed dispensational brother Clarence Larkin and inform him that he was spewing disinformation:

"The "Futurist School" interprets the language of the Apocalypse "literally," except such symbols as are named as such, and holds that the whole of the Book, from the end of the third chapter, is yet "future" and unfulfilled, and that the greater part of the Book, from the beginning of chapter six to the end of chapter nineteen,
It just doesn't get any better than that.

Hello jgr. Informative post.
I did a google search to see if there was a thread on him and the one below popped up:

Looks like his view "Pope/RCC in Revelation coincides with that of Luther and the SDAs [Pope/RCC Revelation]......and those 2 Denom appear to be polar opposited to each other..........

Mystery Babylon

Quoting Mr. Larkin: “When Attalus, the Pontiff and King of Pergamos, died B.C. 133, he bequeathed the Headship of the Babylonian Priesthood to Rome. When the Etruscans came to Italy from Lydia (The region of Pergamos), they brought with them the Babylonian religion and rites. They set up a Pontiff who was head of the Priesthood. Later the Romans accepted this Pontiff as their civil ruler. Julius Caesar was made Pontiff of the Etruscan Order in B.C. 74. In B. C. 63, he was made Supreme Pontiff of the “Babylonian Order,” thus becoming heir to the rights an title of Attalus, Pontiff of Pergamos…Thus the first Roman Emperor become head of the “Babylonian Priesthood” and Rome the successor of Babylon (p. 151-152).”
==========================
And a thread by an SDA concerning Luther identifying the antichrist.
This was actually a great and fun thread:

Martin Luther identifies the Antichrist over 500 years ago!
Feb 1, 2008

The quote copied below is from one of Martin Luther's last books. It was titled: "A Prelude by Martin Luther on the Babylonian Captivity of the Church".

Page 536, chapter 3.

"Nevertheless, since few know this glory of baptism and the blessedness of Christian liberty, and cannot know them because of the tyranny of the pope, I for one will walk away from it all and redeem my conscience by bringing this charge against the pope and all his papists: Unless they will abolish their laws and traditions, and restore to Christ's churches their liberty and have it taught among them, they are guilty of all the souls that perish under this miserable captivity, and the papacy is truly the kingdom of Babylon, yes, the kingdom of the real Antichrist! For who is " the man of sin" and "the son of perdition" but he that with his doctrines and his laws increases sins and the perdition of souls in the Church, while he sits in the Church as if he were God? All this the papal tyranny has fulfilled, and more than fulfilled, these many centuries. It has extinguished faith, obscured the sacraments and oppressed the Gospel."

Avatar said: ↑
The Pope is the antiChrist? How original.

Tonks said: ↑
I've always wondered why the SDAs were so obsessed with Catholicism. Of all the groups out there they are - by far - the ones that I find less concerned with actual preaching (unless it involves Sabbath worship) and more concerned about yelling about the Catholic Church.

The Pope as Anti-Christ is the confessional belief of several protestant denominations. In the past several hundred years or so, however, they've sort of gotten beyond that sticking point and have preached Christ as the physician of men...and have gotten on with the business of savlation.

I don't yet detect any sort of theological or doctrinal maturing out of the Adventist groups yet. Pretty sad, really.

When a group defines themselves more by what they are not instead of what they are I generally find it to be good advice that one should run, not walk, in the opposite direction.

what is the SDA sticking up for Luther,
Luther worshiped on Sunday
And Hated Jews,
neither of these things SDA stands for

Biblewriter · Aug 27, 2019

jgr said:
What recognized dispensationalists have repudiated Larkin's claim?

Quotes, names, and dates; please.

Among others, see "Dispensationalism Before Darby," by William C. Watson, 2015, and "Ancient Dispensational Truth," by James C. Morris, 2019.

Both of these relatively recent books have been well received and present HARD PROOF that Larkin was mistaken. But you are being dishonest in asking for who has repudiated Larkin, for you, yourself, have personally seen the HARD PROOF that he was mistaken. For I have posted it in this forum, and you, by your responses to those posts, have PROVEN that you have seen them. So you already know that Larkin's error has been CONCLUSIVELY PROVEN, And you are only desperately trying to avoid admitting that HARD FACT.

jgr · Aug 27, 2019

Biblewriter said:
Among others, see "Dispensationalism Before Darby," by William C. Watson, 2015, and "Ancient Dispensational Truth," by James C. Morris, 2019.

Both of these relatively recent books have been well received and present HARD PROOF that Larkin was mistaken. But you are being dishonest in asking for who has repudiated Larkin, for you, yourself, have personally seen the HARD PROOF that he was mistaken. For I have posted it in this forum, and you, by your responses to those posts, have PROVEN that you have seen them. So you already know that Larkin's error has been CONCLUSIVELY PROVEN, And you are only desperately trying to avoid admitting that HARD FACT.

Awaiting quote of Watson repudiating Larkin.

Watson is one among a legion of recognized dispensational futurists.

You'll need a whole lot more repudiators.

Belief in a futurized antichrist prior to the Reformation is not dispensationalism for, as reiterated innumerably, there was no antichrist futurism to be found in orthodox Christianity by the end of the Reformation.

Orthodox futurists before the Reformation would undoubtedly have become orthodox Reformers by the end of the Reformation.

The prophetically discerning recognized that their struggle was with the antichrist of the apostate papacy.

After antichrist's deposition, they recognized it for another two centuries.

Until Samuel Maitland and the prophetically undiscerning, aka dispensational futurists, took Ribera's bait.

And betrayed the Reformation.

Biblewriter · Aug 28, 2019

jgr said:
Awaiting quote of Watson repudiating Larkin.

Watson is one among a legion of recognized dispensational futurists.

You'll need a whole lot more repudiators.

Belief in a futurized antichrist prior to the Reformation is not dispensationalism for, as reiterated innumerably, there was no antichrist futurism to be found in orthodox Christianity by the end of the Reformation.

Orthodox futurists before the Reformation would undoubtedly have become orthodox Reformers by the end of the Reformation.

The prophetically discerning recognized that their struggle was with the antichrist of the apostate papacy.

After antichrist's deposition, they recognized it for another two centuries.

Until Samuel Maitland and the prophetically undiscerning, aka dispensational futurists, took Ribera's bait.

And betrayed the Reformation.

This is not only false, it is also illogical. I have shown you the HARD PROOF that what you are saying is simply not correct. And have added to it the exact titles and authors of two books that present that proof. And you are pretending that HARD PROOF is not enough, that there also need to be, first one, and now many, others that know about that HARD PROOF.

I am done here. I have conclusively proved that you are simply refusing to admit what you know is correct.

BABerean2 · Aug 28, 2019

Biblewriter said:
Among others, see "Dispensationalism Before Darby," by William C. Watson, 2015

I bought Watson's book, because you recommended it.

Watson claims those who believe Christ returns before "the great conflagration", were Dispensationalists.
I believe the same thing, and am most certainly not a Dispensationalist.

You may want to be more careful when claiming others are not speaking the truth. Those on your team need to get the beam out of their own eye, first.

.

jgr · Aug 28, 2019

Biblewriter said:
This is not only false, it is also illogical. I have shown you the HARD PROOF that what you are saying is simply not correct. And have added to it the exact titles and authors of two books that present that proof. And you are pretending that HARD PROOF is not enough, that there also need to be, first one, and now many, others that know about that HARD PROOF.

I am done here. I have conclusively proved that you are simply refusing to admit what you know is correct.

Dispensational modernism detests Reformation prophecy, because it exposes the deception which dispensationalism has embraced, and the fantasy and fallacy of the futurism which it espouses, including illegitimate modernist rapture dogma.

The Reformers knew that they were battling the antichrist of their era. There was no rapture to deliver them.

Any suggestion of a chimera called the rapture would have elicited many a Reformer holy guffaw.

The prophetic faith of the fathers was validated and confirmed by the HARD PROOF of the prophetic fulfillments which followed.

Acquaint yourself with it and them.

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 28, 2019

Biblewriter said: ↑
Among others, see "Dispensationalism Before Darby," by William C. Watson, 2015

BABerean2 said:
I bought Watson's book, because you recommended it.

Watson claims those who believe Christ returns before "the great conflagration", were Dispensationalists.
I believe the same thing, and am most certainly not a Dispensationalist.
You may want to be more careful when claiming others are not speaking the truth. Those on your team need to get the beam out of their own eye, first.
.

jgr said:
Dispensational modernism detests Reformation prophecy, because it exposes the deception which dispensationalism has embraced, and the fantasy and fallacy of the futurism which it espouses, including the illegitimate rapture dogma.
The Reformers knew that they were battling the antichrist of their era. There was no rapture to deliver them.
The prophetic faith of the fathers was validated and confirmed by the HARD PROOF of the prophetic fulfillments which followed.
Acquaint yourself with it and them.

I notice there are different flavors of Dispensationalism[premill, postmill, pretrib, postrib] and that the more modern flavors do appear to way out there in "fantasy land"
I am of the Preterist/Amill/Post-Trib/Pre-Wrath 70ad view .....

Have you and other checked out this "Rapture" thread? Pretty exciting

RAPTURE!! OR LEFT BEHIND????

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
Proof that Matthew 24 was fully fulfilled in 70 AD!
Also see: Rapture refuted

Also see: Rapture refuted
Rapture Refuted! Pre-tribulation Rapture and Premillennialism Refuted Home page

50 ways Pre-millennialism contradicts the Bible

Introduction:
1. See our main Rapture page here.
===============================

Greengardener said: ↑
...................
I held to a rapture theology for many years, and now my view is more that God can do whatever He decides in His own time but from what I see, I think it safer to prepare to go through a really difficult time than to think we may escape

mmksparbud said: ↑
Sorry---it has ben the accepted idea that the rapture would be secret by most who believe in this concept. It is what was portrayed in the Left Behind books and movies. It is obviously not a secret.
As for when does the 1000 year begin? It says when:

LittleLambofJesus said:
The SDAs appear to be in the post-mill camp.......
Which I agree with, as I am a Preterist post-trib , pre-wrath-70ad

SDAs do believe in a time of great trouble for Christians, not a 7-year period, in which God will sustain those who are Christians, that will occur prior to the 2nd Advent of Christ.

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 28, 2019

Some interesting pictures and facts"

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

"I consider the Prophecy relative to the destruction of the Jewish nation,
if there were nothing else to support Christianity, as absolutely irresistible."
(Mr. Erskine's Speech, at the Trial of Williams, for publishing Paine's Age of Reason)

Rapture Refuted! Pre-tribulation Rapture and Premillennialism Refuted Home page

The Gap Theory
1. Time sensitive prophecy clocks can't pause or stop.
2. The "church age" was prophesied in the Old Testament.
3. God didn't think up the "church" after the Jews rejected Jesus as their earthly king.
4. The church is not "a parenthesis" afterthought.
5. The church was part of God's eternal plan.
6. The church will endure forever, even after the second coming.
7. Read more

1948 Israeli statehood is irrelevant
1. Fleshly Israel is lost without Christ.
2. Restoring temple sacrifices in Jerusalem is a denial of the blood of Christ.
3. Israeli statehood 1948 AD was not prophesied and is not a sign of a soon to happen second coming.
4. Rapture/Restoration texts refuted
5. Read more

================

Israel's land promise fulfilled in 1350 BC

1. Israel got all the land they were promised!
2. Israel's 1948 nationhood is not the beginning of the fulfillment of the land promise made to Abraham!
3. Abraham's land promise fulfilled by Joshua, Solomon!
4. Christ will never set foot on earth again!
5. Read more

British-Israelism
Anglo-Israelism
Refuted!

Herbert W. Armstrong's book examined and refuted: The United States and Britain in Prophecy
======================
King Jesus is seated upon the throne of David now!

1. Jesus is king now, since Pentecost.
2. Jesus sits upon the throne of David now!
3. Jesus gives up the throne at second coming
4. The earthly throne of David is extinct!
5. Jesus will never walk the earth again.
6. Read more

===========================
"Replacement theology" or "supersessionism" is the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

John Hagee and others who oppose "replacement theology" are rank false teachers whom apostle Paul condemns as "fallen from grace, severed from Christ". (Gal 4:10; 5:4; Rom 7:1-7; Jer 31:31 + Heb 8:6-13)

Christians are God's true "Jews" today.

1. Christians are the true Jews and true Israel today
2. The church is God's Israel today.
3. Physical Israel is equal to the gentiles today and like the Gentiles, must believe Jesus rose from the dead in order to be saved from punishmet
===================================
The kingdom is the church

1. The Old Testament Kingdom Prophecy is the church and it came, just as Jesus said, on Pentecost in 33 A.D.!
2. The Kingdom is the church

Vicky gould · Aug 28, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Some interesting pictures and facts"

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

"I consider the Prophecy relative to the destruction of the Jewish nation,
if there were nothing else to support Christianity, as absolutely irresistible."
(Mr. Erskine's Speech, at the Trial of Williams, for publishing Paine's Age of Reason)

Rapture Refuted! Pre-tribulation Rapture and Premillennialism Refuted Home page

The Gap Theory
1. Time sensitive prophecy clocks can't pause or stop.
2. The "church age" was prophesied in the Old Testament.
3. God didn't think up the "church" after the Jews rejected Jesus as their earthly king.
4. The church is not "a parenthesis" afterthought.
5. The church was part of God's eternal plan.
6. The church will endure forever, even after the second coming.
7. Read more

1948 Israeli statehood is irrelevant
1. Fleshly Israel is lost without Christ.
2. Restoring temple sacrifices in Jerusalem is a denial of the blood of Christ.
3. Israeli statehood 1948 AD was not prophesied and is not a sign of a soon to happen second coming.
4. Rapture/Restoration texts refuted
5. Read more

================

Israel's land promise fulfilled in 1350 BC

1. Israel got all the land they were promised!
2. Israel's 1948 nationhood is not the beginning of the fulfillment of the land promise made to Abraham!
3. Abraham's land promise fulfilled by Joshua, Solomon!
4. Christ will never set foot on earth again!
5. Read more

British-Israelism
Anglo-Israelism
Refuted!

Herbert W. Armstrong's book examined and refuted: The United States and Britain in Prophecy
======================
King Jesus is seated upon the throne of David now!

1. Jesus is king now, since Pentecost.
2. Jesus sits upon the throne of David now!
3. Jesus gives up the throne at second coming
4. The earthly throne of David is extinct!
5. Jesus will never walk the earth again.
6. Read more

===========================
"Replacement theology" or "supersessionism" is the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

John Hagee and others who oppose "replacement theology" are rank false teachers whom apostle Paul condemns as "fallen from grace, severed from Christ". (Gal 4:10; 5:4; Rom 7:1-7; Jer 31:31 + Heb 8:6-13)

Christians are God's true "Jews" today.

1. Christians are the true Jews and true Israel today
2. The church is God's Israel today.
3. Physical Israel is equal to the gentiles today and like the Gentiles, must believe Jesus rose from the dead in order to be saved from punishmet
===================================
The kingdom is the church

1. The Old Testament Kingdom Prophecy is the church and it came, just as Jesus said, on Pentecost in 33 A.D.!
2. The Kingdom is the church

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 28, 2019

Vicky gould said:
.

Hello.
Did you mean not to make a post?

BABerean2 · Aug 28, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Some interesting pictures and facts"

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

"I consider the Prophecy relative to the destruction of the Jewish nation,
if there were nothing else to support Christianity, as absolutely irresistible."
(Mr. Erskine's Speech, at the Trial of Williams, for publishing Paine's Age of Reason)

Rapture Refuted! Pre-tribulation Rapture and Premillennialism Refuted Home page

The Gap Theory
1. Time sensitive prophecy clocks can't pause or stop.
2. The "church age" was prophesied in the Old Testament.
3. God didn't think up the "church" after the Jews rejected Jesus as their earthly king.
4. The church is not "a parenthesis" afterthought.
5. The church was part of God's eternal plan.
6. The church will endure forever, even after the second coming.
7. Read more

1948 Israeli statehood is irrelevant
1. Fleshly Israel is lost without Christ.
2. Restoring temple sacrifices in Jerusalem is a denial of the blood of Christ.
3. Israeli statehood 1948 AD was not prophesied and is not a sign of a soon to happen second coming.
4. Rapture/Restoration texts refuted
5. Read more

================

Israel's land promise fulfilled in 1350 BC

1. Israel got all the land they were promised!
2. Israel's 1948 nationhood is not the beginning of the fulfillment of the land promise made to Abraham!
3. Abraham's land promise fulfilled by Joshua, Solomon!
4. Christ will never set foot on earth again!
5. Read more

British-Israelism
Anglo-Israelism
Refuted!

Herbert W. Armstrong's book examined and refuted: The United States and Britain in Prophecy
======================
King Jesus is seated upon the throne of David now!

1. Jesus is king now, since Pentecost.
2. Jesus sits upon the throne of David now!
3. Jesus gives up the throne at second coming
4. The earthly throne of David is extinct!
5. Jesus will never walk the earth again.
6. Read more

===========================
"Replacement theology" or "supersessionism" is the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

John Hagee and others who oppose "replacement theology" are rank false teachers whom apostle Paul condemns as "fallen from grace, severed from Christ". (Gal 4:10; 5:4; Rom 7:1-7; Jer 31:31 + Heb 8:6-13)

Christians are God's true "Jews" today.

1. Christians are the true Jews and true Israel today
2. The church is God's Israel today.
3. Physical Israel is equal to the gentiles today and like the Gentiles, must believe Jesus rose from the dead in order to be saved from punishmet
===================================
The kingdom is the church

1. The Old Testament Kingdom Prophecy is the church and it came, just as Jesus said, on Pentecost in 33 A.D.!
2. The Kingdom is the church

Mat_12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Did Christ cast out devils before the Day of Pentecost?
If He did, your chart above is not correct.

.

Vicky gould · Aug 28, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Some interesting pictures and facts"

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

"I consider the Prophecy relative to the destruction of the Jewish nation,
if there were nothing else to support Christianity, as absolutely irresistible."
(Mr. Erskine's Speech, at the Trial of Williams, for publishing Paine's Age of Reason)

Rapture Refuted! Pre-tribulation Rapture and Premillennialism Refuted Home page

The Gap Theory
1. Time sensitive prophecy clocks can't pause or stop.
2. The "church age" was prophesied in the Old Testament.
3. God didn't think up the "church" after the Jews rejected Jesus as their earthly king.
4. The church is not "a parenthesis" afterthought.
5. The church was part of God's eternal plan.
6. The church will endure forever, even after the second coming.
7. Read more

1948 Israeli statehood is irrelevant
1. Fleshly Israel is lost without Christ.
2. Restoring temple sacrifices in Jerusalem is a denial of the blood of Christ.
3. Israeli statehood 1948 AD was not prophesied and is not a sign of a soon to happen second coming.
4. Rapture/Restoration texts refuted
5. Read more

================

Israel's land promise fulfilled in 1350 BC

1. Israel got all the land they were promised!
2. Israel's 1948 nationhood is not the beginning of the fulfillment of the land promise made to Abraham!
3. Abraham's land promise fulfilled by Joshua, Solomon!
4. Christ will never set foot on earth again!
5. Read more

British-Israelism
Anglo-Israelism
Refuted!

Herbert W. Armstrong's book examined and refuted: The United States and Britain in Prophecy
======================
King Jesus is seated upon the throne of David now!

1. Jesus is king now, since Pentecost.
2. Jesus sits upon the throne of David now!
3. Jesus gives up the throne at second coming
4. The earthly throne of David is extinct!
5. Jesus will never walk the earth again.
6. Read more

===========================
"Replacement theology" or "supersessionism" is the true gospel of Jesus Christ.

John Hagee and others who oppose "replacement theology" are rank false teachers whom apostle Paul condemns as "fallen from grace, severed from Christ". (Gal 4:10; 5:4; Rom 7:1-7; Jer 31:31 + Heb 8:6-13)

Christians are God's true "Jews" today.

1. Christians are the true Jews and true Israel today
2. The church is God's Israel today.
3. Physical Israel is equal to the gentiles today and like the Gentiles, must believe Jesus rose from the dead in order to be saved from punishmet
===================================
The kingdom is the church

1. The Old Testament Kingdom Prophecy is the church and it came, just as Jesus said, on Pentecost in 33 A.D.!
2. The Kingdom is the church

LittleLambofJesus said:
Hello.
Did you mean not to make a post?

No just me being computer illiterate. I was wondering if you saw my two post in the prophecy thread?
Your thoughts would be appreciate if you so inclined. Great material and great layout

Biblewriter · Aug 29, 2019

jgr said:
Dispensational modernism detests Reformation prophecy, because it exposes the deception which dispensationalism has embraced, and the fantasy and fallacy of the futurism which it espouses, including illegitimate modernist rapture dogma.

The Reformers knew that they were battling the antichrist of their era. There was no rapture to deliver them.

Any suggestion of a chimera called the rapture would have elicited many a Reformer holy guffaw.

The prophetic faith of the fathers was validated and confirmed by the HARD PROOF of the prophetic fulfillments which followed.

Acquaint yourself with it and them.

It is a TYPICAL reaction of a defeated debater to simply attempt to change the subject.

BABerean2 · Aug 29, 2019

Biblewriter said:
It is a TYPICAL reaction of a defeated debater to simply attempt to change the subject.

One of the most common debate strategies on this forum is ignorance.

Somebody here talked about their appreciation of the New Covenant, but has yet to produce anything from their books about the New Covenant.

Why do Dispensationalists ignore the New Covenant?

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls with it.

Some of us think the angel Gabriel appeared to reveal the timeline of the Messiah who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and then the angel failed to even mention the New Covenant.
This ignorance of the New Covenant has produced the confusion seen on this thread.

.

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 29, 2019

jgr said: ↑
What recognized dispensationalists have repudiated Larkin's claim?

Quotes, names, and dates; please.

Biblewriter said: ↑
Among others, see "Dispensationalism Before Darby," by William C. Watson, 2015, and "Ancient Dispensational Truth," by James C. Morris, 2019.

Both of these relatively recent books have been well received and present HARD PROOF that Larkin was mistaken. But you are being dishonest in asking for who has repudiated Larkin, for you, yourself, have personally seen the HARD PROOF that he was mistaken. For I have posted it in this forum, and you, by your responses to those posts, have PROVEN that you have seen them. So you already know that Larkin's error has been CONCLUSIVELY PROVEN, And you are only desperately trying to avoid admitting that HARD FACT.

jgr said: ↑
Awaiting quote of Watson repudiating Larkin.
Watson is one among a legion of recognized dispensational futurists.
You'll need a whole lot more repudiators.
Belief in a futurized antichrist prior to the Reformation is not dispensationalism for, as reiterated innumerably, there was no antichrist futurism to be found in orthodox Christianity by the end of the Reformation.
Orthodox futurists before the Reformation would undoubtedly have become orthodox Reformers by the end of the Reformation.
The prophetically discerning recognized that their struggle was with the antichrist of the apostate papacy.
After antichrist's deposition, they recognized it for another two centuries.
Until Samuel Maitland and the prophetically undiscerning, aka dispensational futurists, took Ribera's bait.
And betrayed the Reformation.

Biblewriter said:
This is not only false, it is also illogical. I have shown you the HARD PROOF that what you are saying is simply not correct. And have added to it the exact titles and authors of two books that present that proof. And you are pretending that HARD PROOF is not enough, that there also need to be, first one, and now many, others that know about that HARD PROOF.

I am done here. I have conclusively proved that you are simply refusing to admit what you know is correct.

jgr said:
Dispensational modernism detests Reformation prophecy, because it exposes the deception which dispensationalism has embraced, and the fantasy and fallacy of the futurism which it espouses, including illegitimate modernist rapture dogma.

The Reformers knew that they were battling the antichrist of their era. There was no rapture to deliver them.

Any suggestion of a chimera called the rapture would have elicited many a Reformer holy guffaw.

The prophetic faith of the fathers was validated and confirmed by the HARD PROOF of the prophetic fulfillments which followed.

Acquaint yourself with it and them.

Biblewriter said:
It is a TYPICAL reaction of a defeated debater to simply attempt to change the subject.

BABerean2 said:
One of the most common debate strategies on this forum is ignorance.

Somebody here talked about their appreciation of the New Covenant, but has yet to produce anything from their books about the New Covenant.
Why do Dispensationalists ignore the New Covenant?
This ignorance of the New Covenant has produced the confusion seen on this thread.
.

Indeed...........

A more recent commentary:

Daniel's Seventy Weeks

TK Burk: Jesus is Not a Failed Messiah: Six Proofs from Daniel 9:24 (2019)

Bible prophecy is about much more than just a prediction the Last Days, for found within its words is evidence of both the identity and the authenticity of the true Messiah of God. About this, Jesus said, “Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me” (see John 5:39). He also said, “These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me” (Luke 24:44). These words are proof that the early church used as their evidence of Jesus being their one true Messiah. Some examples are:

One key in determining the correct view of Bible prophecy is found in whether or not there is a one-week gap between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel 9:24-27. The time frame of when this 70th week is to occur can be surmised by knowing when the six points found in Daniel 9:24 were to be fulfilled.

If all of these six points are yet unfulfilled, as Dispensationalists claim, then there has to be a gap of time to allow them time to take place; but if these points have already taken place, as Fulfilled Eschatologists claim, then there would be no scriptural reason for a gap, which would mean Daniel’s 70th week is now a past event.

Even though both prophetic camps agree upon the importance of this verse, I noticed that Dispensationalists mostly stay clear of verse 24 of Daniel 9. This has been true in articles and videos that have been produced against the Preterists’ stance.
Maybe the reason why they can’t talk about this is because
(1) if they show these six points are now fulfilled they thereby nullify the reason for a gap between the 69th and 70th week, or (2) if they say that Jesus did not complete that which He came to do, all of which are found in these six points, then their ministries, like the critics of Christianity, would be saying that Jesus is a “failed messiah.”
This last point may seem harsh, but if a person will study the anti-missionary writings of Jewish Rabbis who work to “unconvert” Jewish Christians, they will see that this is exactly the approach that they use.

To give you an example of this, I am including a study from a leading anti-missionary group called “Jews for Judaism.” (www.jewsforjudaism.org)
Found in the “Reference Center” area of their website, under “How to Respond,” is an answer to the following question: “How can we be sure that Jesus’ promises to return are false prophecy?”
The writer responded, “Jesus, it is claimed, prophesied that certain unspecified individuals would not die until they would see either ‘the Son of Man coming in his kingdom’ (Matthew 16:28), or ‘see the kingdom of God after it has come with power’ (Mark 9:1), or see the ‘kingdom of God’ (Luke 9:27).” He then specified how he accounted for such a finding by using the following biblical illustrations:............................

Daniel refers to something greater…

These truths show that this “anointing of the Most Holy” must be referring to something greater than a building…something greater like the most Holy—Jesus. He was the One who was called “Emmanuel,” which the Bible says is interpreted, “God with us” (see Matthew 1:23). Jesus’ coming allowed God’s presence to dwell (tabernacle) with man.

The anointing of significance that could fulfill this point from Daniel 9:24 happened at Jesus’ baptism. That anointing was the inauguration of Jesus’ ministry for it manifested Him as the Messiah of God and ushered in the beginning of Daniel’s 70th week. Jesus went from this anointing and began systematically fulfilling all the Messianic signs of Isaiah 61.

John 1:29-34 
(29) The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. [Make an end of sin]
(30) This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
(31) And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. [Unto Messiah the prince. This started the final week of Daniel when Jesus began His ministry of the New Covenant]
(32) And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. [Anoint the Most Holy]
(33) And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
(34) And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

jgr · Aug 29, 2019

Biblewriter said:
It is a TYPICAL reaction of a defeated debater to simply attempt to change the subject.

No change at all.

Modernism, deception, fantasy, fallacy, and illegitimate have never changed in describing dispensational dogma.

Only God knows if they'll ever change before He returns.

But they'll certainly change after.

Where is the Evidence of a Gap in the 70 weeks of Dan 9?

Is there a "gap" in the 70 weeks of Daniel 9"

No

Yes

I don't know

Other

Fully fulfilled

Half complete Half Future

All Future

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