Not Understanding, But Not Questioning

Sketcher · Aug 10, 2019

Introverted1293 said:
I am a man that has lust and same-sex attractions. I am starting to realize that I can't pray the gay away, like some people call it. I have to fill my mind with the truth of God's word. Not just the Bible, although that is the most important, but also with other sermons concerning my sin. I realize that I have to memorize scripture and live it out.

I do not understand why homosexuality is sin. But all I know is that if I do it, I will be thrown into hell. And yes, I recognize that lusting is adultery as well. I understand why it is sin to lust after people. It is disrespectful to the people you are lusting after. Think about it. If you had two teenage daughters, and you were given the ability to read people's mind, and you passed a man who had all kinds of dirty thoughts toward your daughters, anybody is going to want to hurt him, even though he may not ever touch your daughters. So, I understand why lust is wrong. It is just disrespectful. And if I am embarrassed to share my thoughts with somebody else, then I probably shouldn't be thinking about what I am thinking. God is always reading my thoughts, and that should be enough to trouble and fear.

Praying the gay away, I am realizing, is not the answer at all. I have to renew my mind by reading his word. But the thing about the Bible is that it doesn't tell us why some sin is sin. It doesn't tell me why two men can't love each other romantically. They can certainly have brotherly love, but romantically they can't because God hates it.

I have had some Christians try to tell why some sin is sin. But I don't care why it is sin. All I know that sin is sin. And if we continue to sin, God throws us into hell. I don't need to understand at all. And I have also have people talk to me about why I have my struggles and they have tried to get to the root my sin struggles. My attitude is now who cares. I don't need to know the root of my same-sex attraction.

Am I wrong for not caring why I choose to not care why God said some sin is sin? Am I wrong for not wanting to know what the root of my sin is?

It's not the orientation that is sinful, that's just how you are tempted. It's the lust and the encounters and the relationships that are sinful. It's important to have that line in place so that you don't beat yourself up for being tempted. As a straight man who deals with a lot of lust, I know how important it is to draw a line between being tempted and saying "yes" to the temptation.

If not for Christ and the work he did on the cross that included me, I would have no hope at all. Fortunately, 1 John 2:1-2 gives me a reason to hope. That is a hope you can hold onto as well.

As to why two men cannot love each other romantically, it's against God's design - he provided Eve for Adam, not another man. And they come together, and they make children, and it's all part of the system and the life cycle God made for us. He made it sacred, and a perversion of it is consequently sinful, even if the other man consents to it.

As for roots of sin, there comes a point where digging for them becomes futile - it's too dark, or too mysterious, or sometimes the rock bottom is higher than we thought it was. At some point, we just get to the point where we've hit something inherent to the sin nature itself, and there's no point in going further. Even Paul didn't fully understand the sinful side to himself (Romans 7:7-25).

LostMarbels · Aug 10, 2019

Introverted1293 said:
I am a man that has lust and same-sex attractions. I am starting to realize that I can't pray the gay away, like some people call it. I have to fill my mind with the truth of God's word. Not just the Bible, although that is the most important, but also with other sermons concerning my sin. I realize that I have to memorize scripture and live it out.

I do not understand why homosexuality is sin. But all I know is that if I do it, I will be thrown into hell. And yes, I recognize that lusting is adultery as well. I understand why it is sin to lust after people. It is disrespectful to the people you are lusting after. Think about it. If you had two teenage daughters, and you were given the ability to read people's mind, and you passed a man who had all kinds of dirty thoughts toward your daughters, anybody is going to want to hurt him, even though he may not ever touch your daughters. So, I understand why lust is wrong. It is just disrespectful. And if I am embarrassed to share my thoughts with somebody else, then I probably shouldn't be thinking about what I am thinking. God is always reading my thoughts, and that should be enough to trouble and fear.

Praying the gay away, I am realizing, is not the answer at all. I have to renew my mind by reading his word. But the thing about the Bible is that it doesn't tell us why some sin is sin. It doesn't tell me why two men can't love each other romantically. They can certainly have brotherly love, but romantically they can't because God hates it.

I have had some Christians try to tell why some sin is sin. But I don't care why it is sin. All I know that sin is sin. And if we continue to sin, God throws us into hell. I don't need to understand at all. And I have also have people talk to me about why I have my struggles and they have tried to get to the root my sin struggles. My attitude is now who cares. I don't need to know the root of my same-sex attraction.

Am I wrong for not caring why I choose to not care why God said some sin is sin? Am I wrong for not wanting to know what the root of my sin is?

I have struggled with my sexuality since I was born, and have used that as part of my witness on this forum multiple times. However living thru it, has been a conflicting struggle. I have dealt with shame, anger, confusion, and even repulsion of myself. I still get angry and argue with God over it sometimes. I do not want to be this way, I hate it. Many times I have called out to God to change me and I get 'no' as a response. "My grace is sufficient". My contention usually was well, what if I don't want your forgiveness, I want your deliverance?

With time and maturity I have learned this Waring within my members is a good thing.

Romans 7
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

That verse above could have been spoken from my own mouth. It is my own sentiment exactly. It is exactly how I feel. Again, with time and maturity I have learned it is my sin nature that repulses me. I am not angry with God, it is my own selfishness in thinking I do not have to endure my own trails that upsets me. It is my own selfish desire to be 'normal' so I can be accepted, and looked at as a 'good' person, a 'real' Christian, and pander for the acceptance of men who otherwise despise me for my 'sin'. Meanwhile God says he knows my sin and loves me despite it. And I chose them over God? There inlies the conflict. Acceptance of man over the acceptance of God.

This was my battle, For years I just wanted to be normal, and be approved by the society I myself approve of. But the truth of the matter is society did not create me, and cannot save my soul. Their acceptance is meaningless if I have the acceptance of God. It simply doesn't matter what others think, this is my walk with Christ. My God created me to be exactly who I am the moment he formed me in the womb.

God is cool with it. And with me. Because I do not engage in it. Temptation is not a sin. Remember, Christ was tempted in the desert. Jesus didn't sin.

James 1 (my favorite book)

2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,[a] whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.

Honestly, how blessed are we, that face and endure temptation, and already have a contrite spirit that recognizes our sinful nature and cries out to God? No you/we cannot pray out the gay, but we can accept God's grace and be thankful that we reconise our faults. Be humble in this. Thank God for being aware you need a savior and you flesh is weak. Thank God for his promise that He is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it. Praise be to God. Not only do we reconise our sin and cry out against it, we are promised we will never face more than we can handle. And we will be rewarded in heaven for enduring the temptation God is going to mitigate to make sure we can withstand it.

Introverted1293 · Aug 10, 2019

com7fy8 said:
Amen > this is very good . . . very clear how you say this. Thank you

There are sin actions which are on the clearcut no-no list. But as we get more into learning how to relate with God and love one another, we discover things which might not be clearly sinful, but they do help to keep us from loving. There are wrong things which are culturally accepted in Bible claiming church groups.

For example, arguing can wreck our sharing with one another. Yet, the Ten Commandments and the Law of Moses do not seem to say, "Do not argue." And certain church meetings can be horrible with arguing. And so, may be there is a "reason" for America's fifty-percent divorce rate including ones who identify as being Christians.

So, you do well to stop what is more obviously wrong, but do not join ones who are into more sneaky wrong stuff which even they themselves might not be wise to.

Complaining can keep us weak so we can keep on suffering. Yet, there is no obvious Old Testament order not to complain, as far as I know. People did get executed by the LORD for complaining, though; but in the New Testament I find we have the most obvious scripture to warn us against complaining, plus how to live, instead > Philippians 2:13-16 with Colossians 3:15.

Look at what can happen because a person is given to automatically complaining about rain. Every time there is rain, the person is unhappy! The person could be thanking God for His provision of rain which we so need in order to have life on this planet. Yet, ones count rain a pain, and call it even "bad" weather, when certainly God is not being bad to give us rain. So, this can be blasphemy, even; yet, look at how many people have somehow gotten a seed attitude in themselves, that rain is dismal weather. And after accepting such a seed, look at how they have doomed themselves to reap all that lousy time they will have for the rest of their lives, because they are committed to feeling lousy when it rains. Of course, they can get wise to this, thanks to God.

And yet, ones of these people might say you are blasphemous to God, and so wrong, calling what is evil good . . . while ones of them can call God's good blessing of rain a bad thing. If you were to change to be like them . . . would you really have changed the way you need to????

So, yes what can seem like little things can add up. And it does not matter if wrong things are socially accepted and Christians are doing them. So, yes there is the temptation to self-righteously look down on self-righteous people . . . like I still can be.

God bless you

God bless you too

And thank you for this post. It was very informative read. It is true we can look down on people we think are self-righteous.

Introverted1293 · Aug 10, 2019

Sketcher said:
It's not the orientation that is sinful, that's just how you are tempted. It's the lust and the encounters and the relationships that are sinful. It's important to have that line in place so that you don't beat yourself up for being tempted. As a straight man who deals with a lot of lust, I know how important it is to draw a line between being tempted and saying "yes" to the temptation.

If not for Christ and the work he did on the cross that included me, I would have no hope at all. Fortunately, 1 John 2:1-2 gives me a reason to hope. That is a hope you can hold onto as well.

As to why two men cannot love each other romantically, it's against God's design - he provided Eve for Adam, not another man. And they come together, and they make children, and it's all part of the system and the life cycle God made for us. He made it sacred, and a perversion of it is consequently sinful, even if the other man consents to it.

As for roots of sin, there comes a point where digging for them becomes futile - it's too dark, or too mysterious, or sometimes the rock bottom is higher than we thought it was. At some point, we just get to the point where we've hit something inherent to the sin nature itself, and there's no point in going further. Even Paul didn't fully understand the sinful side to himself (Romans 7:7-25).

Thank you very much.

And I understand why that two men cannot come together the way that a husband and wife can.

Introverted1293 · Aug 10, 2019

Kris Jordan said:
Introverted1293,

That is such awesome news! Welcome to the family of God!

You are just starting on your faith journey, so you can’t expect to have overcome this so quickly. Your salvation is instantaneous but your growth as a believer is a process. Think about it like a newborn baby. The moment they are born, they’re born. But they go through stages of growth and development. Nobody expects a newborn baby to crawl, walk or run. The same is true in your walk with Jesus. So if you’ve trusted Jesus for your salvation and your forgiveness, then you do not need to walk in fear of hell because your sins are remembered no more and Jesus paid the price in full for you already.

So my encouragement to you is just to ask Jesus every day to help you overcome these Temptations, and to strengthen your faith, and to increase your love for him, and to help you to honor him in your choices and actions, etc. He already knows the areas you struggle in and he wants to transform you even more than you want him to. Plus, he has given you the power of the Holy Spirit who lives within you to help you do that!. Then like you said, get into the word and stay in the word every day. Begin reading the New Testament every day and as you do, ask the Holy Spirit to work in your heart and mind to transform it to be more like Jesus. And also, you really need to get involved in a solid, Bible believing, Bible teaching church so that you can be edified and really grow in your faith. The Bible says that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. That is the Primary Way Jesus is going to grow you up in him.

I have been walking with Jesus for 32 years, but when I first started out, Jesus had a lot of work to do to change my heart and my desires. But the more I immersed myself in him and his word and set my focus on loving him and serving him and pleasing him, Jesus really began to crucify those desires to sin and pleasing him (and wanting to please him) became my default mode. So be encouraged brother. Rome was not built in a day

Thank you very much. This was very helpful.

Introverted1293 · Aug 10, 2019

PaulCyp1 said:
Homosexuality is not a sin, since it is not freely chosen. God's Church has many homosexual members in good standing, who do their best to live their lives according to God's holy will, just like the heterosexual members. Of course, homosexuality does include an attraction towards certain behaviors that do violate the will of God, just like heterosexuality. But simply having the condition is not a violation of God's will, and does not necessitate behaviors that are violations of God's will.

That is a different way of looking at it. I have heard it that way before, but I did not know that some Christians see it this way. But thank you very much.

Introverted1293 · Aug 10, 2019

Swan7 said:
Hey, it’s ok. We all take things the wrong way sometimes. I’ve done it many times myself... ssshhh!

No worries for being busy, if you have more to say, I’m still here.

I do understand what you were trying to get at. I do need to understand why sin is sin. The Bible talks about a lot about understanding. And it says that fools reject understanding. I think that is how it was worded in Proverbs.

Introverted1293 · Aug 10, 2019

Tone said:
You are right in abstaining from whatever you know is a sin. He is our Good Creator and He has always instructed us in the way of Life...He is the author of life. When He told Adam and Eve to not eat from that tree it was because of what He said...they would die.

Agreed

Thank you very much.

Introverted1293 · Aug 10, 2019

Toro said:
You have shown to side with wisdom sir.

You owe NOONE the answers to the hard questions but yourself.

Sometimes we simply need someone to remind us what those questions are.

Thank you for your encouragement.

Introverted1293 · Aug 10, 2019

Maria Billingsley said:
I am sorry. It is a sin. You are fooling yourself and others. Fornication is a sin and that is what you/they are doing. I am a heterosexual and I comply with Gods will that we marry before engaging in a sexual relationship. God does not recognize marriage between the same sex. I hardly think that a homosexual gets a free pass because I do not. Explain please. If you are speaking of celibate homosexuals then I fully agree.

Obviously this has upset me.

Blessings anyway.

It upsets you because you love the truth and hate lies. I hope that someday that I will have that same passion for the truth that you have. I am sorry that you were upset. God bless you.

Introverted1293 · Aug 10, 2019

Blade said:
Not sure what to say. You asked in public and you get many answers. And as each day passes to call it sin, a spirit, pray God will heal on and on will get said less and less. Now I am responding to you.. no one else. I don't need others to say they were offended. If so I will just PM.

You said "I am starting to realize that I can't pray the gay away," why do you think this? I know way to many stories from men and woman there were gay. That felt exactly as you do. The same thoughts, desires.. thinking there was no hope what so ever. Ask them now Not one desire what so ever for the same sex.

Why is it a sin? Because some book says it is? Because man says it is? To be blunt.. I don't lust after men women kids wealth on and on. Its with in me. I know HIM.. and He is in me.. I know that I know that I know its wrong a sin. You have to know. It is a sin.. God made man and women.. man leave parents and the women leaves hers.. the to come together and become one. To God..He sees one. So to men to women can love each other.. that is no sin. But they can never be one. They can never do what God told man and woman to do "Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth"

So if two men get married.. both can love each other again that is no sin. In that bed.. that is the sin. And then both can never have kids. Someone would have to have some woman out side of marriage to have kids. Then that child will never be both of them. Will they ever tell the child who the REAL mom was is? To take this farther. Jesus? Everything you may have done or thinking.. DOES NOT JUDGE YOU! DOES NOT CONDEMN YOU! He does what no man can.. He KNOWS your heart.

Now I know what this is. If it is born in you.. then praying is worthless. (song playing "with lifted hands by Ryan Stevenson") <-- go listen to it.. it fits right now. Again.. perfect timing..

God is not going to take anything we are not willing to surrender. You need to know its a sin. How? Ask HIM! Jesus is real. You need to believe His word. He hears you when you pray.. you need to believe His word. He can't lie. Ask Him about this. If I say its a sin.. its a spirit what ever.. SO WHAT! I am not GOD. You need to hear from HIM! So you post and ask here and look what happened. How much more will your FATHER answers you. Take the time some day.. repent of anything everything you know you did wrong.. read His word.. pray.. worship Him.. then ASK HIM..tell Him your heart exactly how you feel.. HE DOES NOT JUDGE.. we all do.. He does not. Then know He heard you and wait on Him. He will always backup what He says by His word.

You know.. were not here to please man. And your GOD is not against you not mad for HE is FOR YOU!

Thank you very much. It is comforting to know that he is not against me, but for me.

Introverted1293 · Aug 10, 2019

DamianWarS said:
Jesus tells us "Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me." the denial of self can be different for many people but what Christ does not tell us is that our "self" goes away instead it is an intrinsic part of following Christ, as we must deny it and grow into an identity within Christ that overpowers our self-identity

As we follow Christ our identity with ourself shrinks and our identity with Christ grows. the self-identity may always be there (don't expect it to disappear) but over time it shrinks to a point where it doesn't matter and the only thing that matters is our identity in Christ. Inherit in our self-identity and our identity with Christ is going to be conflict and tension so there is nothing abnormal about this but this is why Christ is crucial because we cannot accomplish this redeemed version of ourselves on our own and need Christ to do it.

picture your "self" as a black circle and pile whatever labels or sin or desires you want in there. Now picture Christ as a white circle with it. Which is bigger and which is overpowering which? the goal is to grow the white circle and shrink the black circle so that Christ is so big that it doesn't matter what impulses are inside your self, they may always remain but will be so overshadowed by Christ it simply doesn't matter and has no impact on your life.

Thank you for this

Introverted1293 · Aug 10, 2019

aiki said:
Yes, you ought to fill your mind with God's word. But, the answer to your sinful attraction is surrender to God moment-by-moment, asking Him for His mind and heart, not your own, consciously yielding to His will and way in the mundane events (and temptations) of your life and trusting that He will transform you accordingly.

God's word defines what the truth is about God, about you, and about your relationship to God. Where what you think and feel diverges from the truths of God's word, you must, in surrender to God, stand unmoved upon His truth. It is in the power of God's truth to expose and cut down lies, deceptions, falsehoods, that much of its value lies.

No where in all of Scripture will you ever read that you ought to focus upon your sin. Doing so is the surest way to being shaped to it in your thinking and behaviour. The Bible urges us to look away from the World, and ourselves, and the temptations of the devil to Christ and to fix our eyes steadfastly upon him. And as you do, you will be inevitably conformed to his likeness. God has made us to be conformed to our focus. This is the principle upon which all advertising relies. The more you dwell upon a thing in your mind, the more power it has to influence and shape your thinking and behaviour. So, make sure your mind is fixed upon good and godly things!

Read Romans 1. Read Genesis 1.

It is also disobedient to the command of God. Your sin is always an offense to Him and against Him.

It also was why Jesus suffered and died on the cross. Disrespect is among the least of the reasons why your sin is sin.

It is not biblical, that's for sure. God's strategy for dealing with all sin is spelled out in Romans 6:1-18. I would urge you to read it very carefully and learn to live in the light of its truth.

Because it is a perversion of God's design. Just consider your own anatomy and that of a woman's (though, not for too long) and ask yourself why, if God had wanted homosexual relationships to occur, He did not equip us to have sex in such a manner. Procreation is a core purpose of sex. The complementarity biologically and psychologically of men and women is divinely ordained. Homosexuality denies and corrupts this divinely-ordained complementarity.

If you don't know what the root of all your sin is, it is going to be impossible to pull it out of your life. Homosexuality - and all sin - is the by-product of the "old man," carnal Self, that wants its own way rather than God's, that wants immediate gratification, refusing to consider eternity to come, that is selfish and shakes its fist in God's face. This is the ultimate Source of all your sin, not just the sin of homosexuality. It cannot be improved and so God has put it to death upon Christ's cross. Again, read Romans 6:1-18. You can run around all your life trying to stamp out sin, but doing so is like putting bandages on a cancerous tumor. The tumor is merely a symptom; the real problem is the cancer, and no amount of bandaging will eradicate it. So, too, our sin. It is merely a symptom of Self alive and well and ruling within. Stamping out each sin never deals with the cause of the sin. Until Self is dealt with God's way, through the cross of Jesus, the symptoms of sin that Self produces will never end.

Thank you @aiki

You said a lot. The one about submitting to God moment by moment is something I need to do. Thank you

Introverted1293 · Aug 10, 2019

R. Genevieve said:
I don't think you're wrong to not care why God said some sin is sin. I know one Catholic woman with SSA who described her decision to be celibate as part of pursuing Christ by saying something like, "[Sex] was just something else I'd have to give up." I think the Bible does give some reasons for it outside of the verses telling us not to have homosexual sex when it outlines its image of marriage, but in any case there are some things that we have to trust that God knows what is best for us even when the world says we need to give in to our desire to look like everyone else.

I don't think it's wrong to not care about why you have same-sex attractions. Knowing that we are all stained by original sin has always been a sound enough explanation for me. I don't see the point in trying to figure out if there's any other reason either (and as a same-sex attracted person, I highly doubt that there is any other reason).

If it gives you any peace about God knowing our thoughts, remember that, as an all-knowing and all-seeing God, He has also seen it all before. He isn't surprised by what you're going through, and He's not about to abandon you in your struggle, because you are His child.

Thank you very much.

Introverted1293 · Aug 10, 2019

LostMarbels said:
I have struggled with my sexuality since I was born, and have used that as part of my witness on this forum multiple times. However living thru it, has been a conflicting struggle. I have dealt with shame, anger, confusion, and even repulsion of myself. I still get angry and argue with God over it sometimes. I do not want to be this way, I hate it. Many times I have called out to God to change me and I get 'no' as a response. "My grace is sufficient". My contention usually was well, what if I don't want your forgiveness, I want your deliverance?

With time and maturity I have learned this Waring within my members is a good thing.

Romans 7
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

That verse above could have been spoken from my own mouth. It is my own sentiment exactly. It is exactly how I feel. Again, with time and maturity I have learned it is my sin nature that repulses me. I am not angry with God, it is my own selfishness in thinking I do not have to endure my own trails that upsets me. It is my own selfish desire to be 'normal' so I can be accepted, and looked at as a 'good' person, a 'real' Christian, and pander for the acceptance of men who otherwise despise me for my 'sin'. Meanwhile God says he knows my sin and loves me despite it. And I chose them over God? There inlies the conflict. Acceptance of man over the acceptance of God.

This was my battle, For years I just wanted to be normal, and be approved by the society I myself approve of. But the truth of the matter is society did not create me, and cannot save my soul. Their acceptance is meaningless if I have the acceptance of God. It simply doesn't matter what others think, this is my walk with Christ. My God created me to be exactly who I am the moment he formed me in the womb.

God is cool with it. And with me. Because I do not engage in it. Temptation is not a sin. Remember, Christ was tempted in the desert. Jesus didn't sin.

James 1 (my favorite book)

2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,[a] whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.

Honestly, how blessed are we, that face and endure temptation, and already have a contrite spirit that recognizes our sinful nature and cries out to God? No you/we cannot pray out the gay, but we can accept God's grace and be thankful that we reconise our faults. Be humble in this. Thank God for being aware you need a savior and you flesh is weak. Thank God for his promise that He is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it. Praise be to God. Not only do we reconise our sin and cry out against it, we are promised we will never face more than we can handle. And we will be rewarded in heaven for enduring the temptation God is going to mitigate to make sure we can withstand it.

Thank you very much for sharing. This has given me hope.

LostMarbels · Aug 10, 2019

Introverted1293 said:
Thank you very much for sharing. This has given me hope.

I am thankful to be able to be used to bring you hope.

Your gay.... so what? You're loved. You're forgiven. You're accepted as well. May God bless and keep you in Christ Jesus's name.

What you struggle with is no differnt than an individual that has a daily struggle to not go get drunk. Everyone struggles with their own sin. Some aren't even aware they do sin, and think they are right with God, because they don't do actions that are as bad as someone else. That makes you blessed, because you are already convicted by the spirit and pray to God about it. You have not been abandoned. You are not on your own. God has sent his holy ghost to convict your heart, and teach you.

Do not give in. No matter how much you want to.... you do not have to give in. And you will be found blameless and in the right each and every time you follow God's lead to escape temptation.

visionary · Aug 10, 2019

Introverted1293 said:
I am a man that has lust and same-sex attractions. I am starting to realize that I can't pray the gay away, like some people call it. I have to fill my mind with the truth of God's word. Not just the Bible, although that is the most important, but also with other sermons concerning my sin. I realize that I have to memorize scripture and live it out.

I do not understand why homosexuality is sin. But all I know is that if I do it, I will be thrown into hell. And yes, I recognize that lusting is adultery as well. I understand why it is sin to lust after people. It is disrespectful to the people you are lusting after. Think about it. If you had two teenage daughters, and you were given the ability to read people's mind, and you passed a man who had all kinds of dirty thoughts toward your daughters, anybody is going to want to hurt him, even though he may not ever touch your daughters. So, I understand why lust is wrong. It is just disrespectful. And if I am embarrassed to share my thoughts with somebody else, then I probably shouldn't be thinking about what I am thinking. God is always reading my thoughts, and that should be enough to trouble and fear.

Praying the gay away, I am realizing, is not the answer at all. I have to renew my mind by reading his word. But the thing about the Bible is that it doesn't tell us why some sin is sin. It doesn't tell me why two men can't love each other romantically. They can certainly have brotherly love, but romantically they can't because God hates it.

I have had some Christians try to tell why some sin is sin. But I don't care why it is sin. All I know that sin is sin. And if we continue to sin, God throws us into hell. I don't need to understand at all. And I have also have people talk to me about why I have my struggles and they have tried to get to the root my sin struggles. My attitude is now who cares. I don't need to know the root of my same-sex attraction.

Am I wrong for not caring why I choose to not care why God said some sin is sin? Am I wrong for not wanting to know what the root of my sin is?

I know you are searching, but have you check out casting out the demon of lust? I asked God to take the lust away and then it was easy to focus in on, not self, but others. I was blessed in the experience of selflessness.

aiki · Aug 10, 2019

Introverted1293 said:
Thank you @aiki

You said a lot. The one about submitting to God moment by moment is something I need to do. Thank you

You're welcome. I wrote a lot to you because our exchanges are few and the truths I share are in short supply these days.

Surrender could be called the "key to it all." Christ only increases in us as we decrease, as we submit, yield, humble ourselves and die to Self. But in surrender there is victory. In death, there is life abundant. These are God's ironclad promises to us.

I urge you to avoid thinking of yourself in terms of your struggle with a particular sin. You are, if you're God's child, a "new creature in Christ, old things are passed away and you've been made new." You aren't a homosexual trying to be a Christian; you are a born-again, joint-heir with Christ, the Bible says; you are redeemed from sin, made righteous before God through Jesus, sanctified in him, and indwelt by the Holy Spirit; you are "dead to sin and alive unto God through Christ". This is who you are. You may wrestle with sin but it ought never to define you. Always remember: "The me I see is the me I'll be."

Praying for you.

Swan7 · Aug 10, 2019

Introverted1293 said:
I do understand what you were trying to get at. I do need to understand why sin is sin. The Bible talks about a lot about understanding. And it says that fools reject understanding. I think that is how it was worded in Proverbs.

That is absolutely 100% and it’s not just Proverbs, but once you get reading with the Holy Spirit He will teach you much wisdom! :angel:

Happy to call you brother in Christ

com7fy8 · Aug 10, 2019

Introverted1293 said:
I do not understand why homosexuality is sin. But all I know is that if I do it, I will be thrown into hell.

Yes, there are different ways people understand this. So, I will offer what I have, and you are welcome to trust God to have you find out all that is really right. What is good will have you in God's peace, with more and more freedom from the troubles and torments and destruction and misery of sin.

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

So, fear is anti-love and has "torment". We were not born choosing to fear and to suffer torment; but fear and its torment are part of the package deal of living in sin.

Therefore, God's word clearly says not to be "anxious" about anything > Philippians 4:6-7 >

"Be anxious for nothing" (in Philippians 4:6-7). So, if we do not obey this, we are sinning by not obeying how God's grace has us living and loving.

And there are other things we can have in us because of being born in sin; we did not choose to be born in sin, but we were born wrong, in sin; and so humans have started off wrong, with wrong ways and many different wrong preferences.

While humans in sin can have many different wrong ways and preferences, there is a basic > humans in sin have an automatic tendency to seek pleasure and to react very nastily and negatively and more or less violently if they do not get their own way.

And one very popular pleasure is sexual sensation. Because of being born in sin, humans have a tendency to seek the pleasure of sexual sensation, for their own use and purpose, instead of desiring and seeking to reproduce children of God (Malachi 2:14-15) who know how to love.

We see how many children have been brought up not knowing how to love. This can be partly because their parents did much arguing and complaining and controlling their lives for what they want, instead of being examples of how Jesus has us loving any and all people. And this has helped children to grow up confused, developing preferences for how they will seek pleasure, instead of growing up with the desire to reproduce children for God, who know how to love. This is a very selfish orientation which is sin, a problem of the heart and character, not only a genetic or culturally produced preference. But there is culture which can help to promote children to prefer pleasure and develop preferences for how they get it. But the child was born in sin, with one's own nature making him or her able to go along with this evil world's foolishness of being more interested in pleasure, than in seeking God for Himself.

And indeed we did not choose to be born in sin with its character making us able to have many sorts of selfish preferences, and then to deeply suffer about not getting pleasure the way we want it. But just because we did not choose this, this does not mean we are ok, and certainly we do not have to stay this way; because Jesus suffered and died for us so we can be forgiven and reconciled with God and not keep suffering now and after we die.

So > at a more practical level, in everyday life > why do people prefer pleasure? Why is it not obviously and automatically more desirable to seek God who is so good and kind and beautifully wonderful in love which has Heaven's own pleasant rest and caressing and intimacy in genuine love?????

By the way > God's love has better and nicer pleasure than all the physical sensations which humans can get their bodies to experience > it is written >

"At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore." (in Psalm 16:11)

"Because Your lovingkindness is better than life,
.My lips shall praise You." (Psalm 63:3)

So, why do humans stay so busy with seeking inferior pleasures. And why do people depend on what is not freely given? So often you have to pay for them, or you have to become a slave of some sort to the people you use for getting your pleasure which is inferior. But Jesus gives us "rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:28-30)

Yet we see how people of preferences for sexual pleasure do not have rest for their souls. Why? Because they are not with God in His love with almighty power of peace to keep them deeply satisfied in God's love.

And - - because people are in their weakness of sin, they are weak enough to suffer in the destruction and misery of sin, and the horribleness of their emotional suffering makes them desperate to feel something nicer. So, they seek drugs, sexual sensation, the nice feeling of food, and other pleasures which are fairly easy to get. And they use people to get the pleasures they prefer. But in any case, their preference, really, has nothing to do with which food they prefer or which way they get sexual sensations or drug experiences; but the bottom line is they prefer pleasure instead of seeking God for Himself and personally submitting to Him in His peace.

We all in Jesus are "called in one body" to personally submit to how our Father rules us in His own peace >

"And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful." (Colossians 3:15)

This is basic, for every child of God . . . to submit to how our Heavenly Father personally rules each of us in His own peace with His own almighty power to keep us from evil preferences, and keep us from selfishly using other people to get pleasure. Therefore, it is indeed wrong to have a wrong preference. Preferences are of the heart. God wants our hearts to have preference for Him and submitting to Him in His peace, and to love any and all people as ourselves.

So, if any drive or preference takes our attention away from this, it is sin. Because God's word clearly tells us to set and keep our minds on God >

"You will keep him in perfect peace,
.Whose mind is stayed on You,
.Because He trusts in you."
. . . . . . . . . . . (Isaiah 26:3)

You can see from this, how so many people and things are indeed working to keep your attention elsewhere. This is an evil world we are living in, then. And there are many different wrong preferences and ways of getting our attention to what selfish people prefer for getting their many different pleasures. So, if you become wise to how your own preferences have been sin, now you also need to make sure you are wise to however other pleasure preferences also are sin. And have mercy and hope for others who also have been wrong >

"He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness." (Hebrews 5:2)

And as you become honest with God, in your character you will become capable of perceiving and sharing with others who are honest with God. Only in God's love can we be truly honest and see who the others are. So, we are not alone. But sin isolates us with our preferences which can even become our identity, and we can be isolated with the ones we want to use. We can tend to love the ones we use, and become addicted to their charm and personalities, and this makes our addiction even more complicated than just being an interest in getting physical pleasure. Personalities are very complicated; so becoming hooked on another human being is very difficult, if we do not know how to love with God; plus, Jesus says,

"if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46)

Because of the weakness of sin and its ways of selfish loving, many people can not handle living in a close relationship with someone else, without getting hurt and unforgiving and arguing and accusing and blaming, instead of tenderly caring and compassionately forgiving >

"Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice. And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you." (Ephesians 4:31-32)

Because they are not strong in God's family way of loving, they can isolate themselves with pleasures and with pets, that they can control, and with only certain people who cooperate with them. But God's family love makes us strong and sensitive so we can share with many people, and not get hurt by ones who do not know how to love, but keep good example in their faces

So, you can see how preferences can be guided and driven by desperation to not feel misery of sin. And you can see how people are desperate > arguing, complaining, screaming, pushing, controlling, depending on their own selves instead of depending on God. And God's word says to depend on Him who cares for us >

"casting all your care upon Him, for He cares for you." (1 Peter 5:7)

"Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

This is Bible basic for every person > to personally submit to God in order to be truly deeply corrected in our character, so we personally submit to how our God and Father rules each of us with His own peace in our hearts > Colossians 3:15 > and discover how this has us loving as His family in Jesus while we also care for and reach to any and all others who need Jesus.

And you have already experienced, I would say, Info, that shaming and guilt-tripping and the threat of hell have not changed you into a deeply submissive person in God's peace. But, also, just saying we are ok to stay the way we are does not have us personally sharing with God in His own love. We do not need to isolate ourselves with only certain people who say we are ok.

With Jesus, we have . . .

"rest for your souls" (Matthew 11:28-30) . . .

loving any and all people, with hope for any evil person, at all > love "hopes all things" (in 1 Corinthians 13:7) . . .

hope for others because of how God has proven Himself in us, so we know He can do this in any other person, too . . .

> God bless you with this, more and more

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