Views on the New Heaven/s and Earth mentioned in OT and NT

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 8, 2019

I am putting this topic up on the CT board because of the controversial nature of it and that it may evolve into the realm of what is called "full preterism/realized eschatology" which can only be discussed on this board.

With that aside, I would like to put up the Preterist perspective from a Preterist site.

I am of the Covenantle view, of both the Olivet Discourse and Revelation, and will explain more about that was we get further along with this thread.

For now, here are a few Preterist views
[of course, both partial and full futurists can also post their views
FUTURISTS
(Virtually No Fulfillment of Matt. 24/25 & Revelation in 1st C. - Types Only ; Also Included are "Higher Critics" Not Associated With Any Particular Eschatology)]
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The New Heavens and Earth | Study Archive @ PreteristArchive.com - The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterism

New Heavens and Earth
Global, Covenantal, or Personal?

"Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens, and a new earth." II Peter 3:13

John Brown (1853)
" 'Heaven and earth passing,' understood literally, is the dissolution of the present system of the universe, and the period when that is to take place, is called the 'end of the world.' But a person at all familiar with the phraseology of the Old Testament Scriptures, knows that the dissolution of the Mosaic economy, and the establishment of the Christian, is often spoken of as the removing of the old earth and heavens, and the creation of a new earth and new heavens" (vol. 1, p. 170)

"It appears, then, that is Scripture be the best interpreter of Scripture, we have in the Old Testament a key to the interpretation of the prophecies in the New. The same symbolism is found in both, and the imagery of Isaiah, Ezekiel, and the other prophets helps us to understand the imagery of St. Matthew, St. Peter, and St. John. As the dissolution of the material world is not necessary to the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, neither is it necessary to the accomplishment of the predictions of the New Testament. But though symbols are metaphorical expressions, they are not unmeaning. It is not necessary to allegorise them, and find a corresponding equivalent for every trope; it is sufficient to regard the imagery as employed to heighten the sublimity of the prediction and to clothe it with impressiveness and grandeur. There are, at the same time, a true propriety and an underlying reality in the symbols of prophecy. The moral and spiritual facts which they represent, the social and ecumenical changes which they typify, could not be adequately set forth by language less majestic and sublime. There is reason for believing that an inadequate apprehension of the real grandeur and significance of such events as the destruction of Jerusalem and the abrogation of the Jewish economy lies at the root of that system of interpretation which maintains that nothing answering to the symbols of the New Testament prophecy has ever taken place. Hence the uncritical and unscriptural figments of double senses, and double, triple, and multiple fulfillments of prophecy. That physical disturbances in nature and extraordinary phenomena in the heavens and in the earth may have accompanied the expiring throes of the Jewish dispensation we are not prepared to deny. It seems to us highly probable that such things were. But the literal fulfillment of the symbols is not essential to the verification of prophecy, which is abundantly proved to be true by the recorded facts of history." (vol. i. p.200).

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Isaiah 51:15-16 | Hebrews 12:25-29

Another example of "heaven and earth" being referred to the Covenant World of Israel, and not literal creation, is Isaiah 51:16, "And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

Notice that God is speaking to Israel. He says he gave them his law, the Old Covenant, the same law Jesus is speaking about in Matthew 5:17-18, to establish heaven and lay the foundation of the earth!

Clearly God is not saying he gave the Old Covenant to Israel to create literal heaven and earth! Material creation existed long before Israel was ever given the Old Covenant.

Isaiah 51:16 And I have put my words in your mouth and covered you in the shadow of my hand, establishing the heavens and laying the foundations of the earth, and saying to Zion, 'You are my people.'

Who is God speaking to in Isaiah 1:1-2, "…Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth." The physical creation?

No, he is speaking to Israel. And who is the witness in Deuteronomy 4:26, "I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day"? Physical creation or Old Covenant Israel?
======================

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 8, 2019

There are some instances in the Scriptures where plural "heavens" are used:

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon
search"heavens" AND "earth"
352 times in 159 verses in the YLT.

Exo 31:17
between Me and the sons of Israel it is a sign -- to the age;
for six days Jehovah made the heavens and the earth, and in the seventh day He hath ceased, and is refreshed.'
Isa 49:13
Sing, O heavens, and joy, O earth, And break forth, O mountains, with singing, For comforted hath Jehovah His people, And His afflicted ones He doth pity
Jer 19:7
And I have made void the counsel of Judah and Jerusalem in this place, and have caused them to fall by the sword before their enemies, and by the hand of those seeking their life, and I have given their carcase for food to the fowl of the heavens, and to the beast of the earth,
Hag 2:6
For thus said Jehovah of Hosts: Yet once more -- it is a little, And I am shaking the heavens and the earth, And the sea, and the dry land,
2Pe 3:13
and for new heavens and a new earth according to His promise we do wait, in which righteousness doth dwell;

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 8, 2019

https://www.preteristarchive.com/StudyArchive/n/new-heavens-earth.html

David Chilton (1987)
"Moreover, the phrase heaven and earth in these contexts does not, as Owen pointed out, refer to the physical heaven and the physical world, but to the world-order, the religious organizations of the world, the "House" or Temple God builds in which He is worshipped." (Days of Vengeance., p. 544)
On the Significance of A.D.70)
"Scripture connects as one theological Event - the Advent - Christ’s birth, life, resurrection, ascension, the outpouring of His Spirit upon the Church in A.D. 30, and the outpouring of His wrath upon Israel in the Holocaust of A.D. 66-70." (David Chilton, The Days of Vengeance, p. 285)

"...the Bible speaks of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon the Church and the destruction of Israel as being the same event, for they were intimately connected theologically. The prophet Joel foretold both the Day of Pentecost and the destruction of Jerusalem in one breath." (David Chilton, The Great Tribulation, p. 21)

The Olivet Discourse is not about the Second Coming of Christ. It is a prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70." (quoted by Ice)

(On The Olivet Discourse)
"The Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21).. is a prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70" (Paradise Restored, p. 224)

(On Matthew 24:13)
"We must remember that "the end" in this passage is not the end of the world, but rather the end of the age, the end of the Temple, the sacrificial system, the covenant nation of Israel, and the last remnants of the pre-Christian era." (Days of Vengeance, p. 89)

(On Matthew 24:34 and the "Generation Means Race" Theory)
"Some have sought to get around the force of this text by saying that the word generation here really means race, and that Jesus was simply saying that the Jewish race would not die out until all these things took place. Is that true? I challenge you: Get out your concordance and look up every New Testament occurrence of the word generation (in Greek, genea) and see if it ever means 'race' in any other context. Here are all the references for the Gospels: Matthew 1:17; 11:16; 12:39, 41, 42, 45; 16:4; 17:17; 23:36; 24:34; Mark 8:12, 38; 9:19; 13:30; Luke 1:48, 50; 7:31; 9:41; 11:29, 30, 31, 32, 50, 51; 18:8; 17:25; 21:32.
Not one of these references is speaking of the entire Jewish race over thousands of years; all use the word in its normal sense of the sum total of those living at the same time. It always refers to contemporaries. (In fact, those who say it means "race" tend to acknowledge this fact, but explain that the word suddenly changes its meaning when Jesus uses it in Matthew 24! We can smile at such a transparent error, but we should also remember that this is very serious. We are dealing with the Word of the living God.)." (The Great Tribulation, p. 3)

(On the Dating of Revelation)
“John emphasizes his anticipation of the soon occurrences of his prophecy by strategic placement of these time references. He places his boldest time statements in both the introduction and conclusion to Revelation. It is remarkable that so many recent commentators have missed it literally coming and going! The statement of expectancy is found three times in the first chapter – twice in the first three verses: Revelation 1:1,3,19. The same idea is found four times in his concluding remarks: Revelation 22:6,7,12,20. It is as if John carefully bracketed the entire work to avoid any confusion.” (The Beast of Revelation; Tyler, TX; ICE, 1982; p. 21-22
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Gary DeMar (1996)
"Jesus does not change subjects when He assures the disciples that "heaven and earth will pass away." Rather, He merely affirms His prior predictions, which are recorded in Matthew 24:2931. Verse 36 is a summary and confirmation statement of these verses.(6) Keep in mind that the central focus of the Olivet Discourse is the desolation of the "house" and "world" of apostate Israel (23:36). The old world of Judaism, represented by the earthly temple, is taken apart stone by stone (24:2). James Jordan writes, "each time God brought judgment on His people during the Old Covenant, there was a sense in which an old heavens and earth was replaced with a new one: New rulers were set up, a new symbolic world model was built (Tabernacle, Temple), and so forth."(7) The New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant with new leaders, a new priesthood, new sacraments, a new sacrifice, a new tabernacle (John 1:14), and a new temple (John 2:19; 1 Corinthians 3:16; Ephesians 2:21). In essence, a new heaven and earth.

The darkening of the sun and moon and the falling of the stars, coupled with the shaking of the heavens (24:29), are more descriptive ways of saying that "heaven and earth will pass away" (24:35). In other contexts, when stars fall, they fall to the earth, a sure sign of temporal judgment (Isaiah 14:12; Daniel 8:10; Revelation 6:13; 9:1; 12:4). So then, the "passing away of heaven and earth" is the passing away of the old covenant world of Judaism led and upheld by those who "crucified the Lord of glory" (1 Corinthians 2:8). "

"John Owen, the Puritan scholar, knows his Bible better than most of the rest of us, and he tells us exactly where the Old Testament foretells a 'new heaven and earth."

"Owen is right on target, asking the question that so many expositors fail to ask: Where had God promised to bring "new heavens and a new earth" The answer, as Owen correctly states, is only in Isaiah 65 and 66 - passages which clearly prophesy the period of the Gospel, brought in by the work of Christ." (ibid., p. 495)

"Because of what may be called the 'collapsing universe' terminology used in this passage, many have assumed that St. Peter is speaking of the final end of the physical heaven and earth, rather than the dissolution of the Old Covenant world order." (Last Days Madness, p. 540)

J. Marcellus Kik (1971)
"But what about the new heaven and the new earth? Will there not be a renovated material heaven and earth? When the Scriptures speak of a new heaven and new earth it is not a material concept, but a spiritual concept."

"Just a little reflection will show that to take Revelation 21 and 22 in a literal way is to make utter foolishness of that which John revealed. In that figurative passage you cannot say that the "new heaven and new earth" is a material concept while the rest is to be taken in a figurative way. The "new heaven and new earth" is but the same as "the holy city" and "the Lamb's bride." (An Eschatology Of Victory, p. 254-256)

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 9, 2019

Gary DeMar (1996)
"Jesus does not change subjects when He assures the disciples that "heaven and earth will pass away."

Rather, He merely affirms His prior predictions, which are recorded in Matthew 24:2931. Verse 36 is a summary and confirmation statement of these verses.(6) Keep in mind that the central focus of the Olivet Discourse is the desolation of the "house" and "world" of apostate Israel (23:36). The old world of Judaism, represented by the earthly temple, is taken apart stone by stone (24:2). James Jordan writes, "each time God brought judgment on His people during the Old Covenant, there was a sense in which an old heavens and earth was replaced with a new one: New rulers were set up, a new symbolic world model was built (Tabernacle, Temple), and so forth."(7) The New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant with new leaders, a new priesthood, new sacraments, a new sacrifice, a new tabernacle (John 1:14), and a new temple (John 2:19; 1 Corinthians 3:16; Ephesians 2:21). In essence, a new heaven and earth.

The darkening of the sun and moon and the falling of the stars, coupled with the shaking of the heavens (24:29), are more descriptive ways of saying that "heaven and earth will pass away" (24:35). In other contexts, when stars fall, they fall to the earth, a sure sign of temporal judgment (Isaiah 14:12; Daniel 8:10; Revelation 6:13; 9:1; 12:4). So then, the "passing away of heaven and earth" is the passing away of the old covenant world of Judaism led and upheld by those who "crucified the Lord of glory" (1 Corinthians 2:8). "

"John Owen, the Puritan scholar, knows his Bible better than most of the rest of us, and he tells us exactly where the Old Testament foretells a 'new heaven and earth."

"Owen is right on target, asking the question that so many expositors fail to ask: Where had God promised to bring "new heavens and a new earth" The answer, as Owen correctly states, is only in Isaiah 65 and 66 - passages which clearly prophesy the period of the Gospel, brought in by the work of Christ." (ibid., p. 495)

"Because of what may be called the 'collapsing universe' terminology used in this passage, many have assumed that St. Peter is speaking of the final end of the physical heaven and earth, rather than the dissolution of the Old Covenant world order." (Last Days Madness, p. 540)

J. Marcellus Kik (1971)
"But what about the new heaven and the new earth? Will there not be a renovated material heaven and earth? When the Scriptures speak of a new heaven and new earth it is not a material concept, but a spiritual concept."

"Just a little reflection will show that to take Revelation 21 and 22 in a literal way is to make utter foolishness of that which John revealed. In that figurative passage you cannot say that the "new heaven and new earth" is a material concept while the rest is to be taken in a figurative way. The "new heaven and new earth" is but the same as "the holy city" and "the Lamb's bride." (An Eschatology Of Victory, p. 254-256)

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 9, 2019

John Lightfoot (1859)

"That the destruction of Jerusalem is very frequently expressed in Scripture as if it were the destruction of the whole world, Deut. 32:22; "A fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.' Jer. 4:23; 'I beheld the earth, and lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light,' &c.
The discourse there also is concerning the destruction of that nation, Isa. 65:17; 'Behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered,' &c. And more passages of this sort among the prophets. According to this sense, Christ speaks in this place; and Peter speaks in his Second Epistle, third chapter; and John, in the sixth of the Revelation; and Paul, 2 Cor. 5:17, &c. (vol. 2, pp. 18-19)

"With the same reference it is, that the times and state of things immediately following the destruction of Jerusalem are called 'a new creation,' new heavens,' and 'a new earth.' When should that be? Read the whole chapter; and you will find the Jews rejected and cut off; and from that time is that new creation of the evangelical world among the Gentiles.

Compare 2 Cor. 5:17 and Rev. 21:1,2; where, the old Jerusalem being cut off and destroyed, a new one succeeds; and new heavens and a new earth are created.

2 Peter 3:13: 'We, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth.' The heaven and the earth of the Jewish church and commonwealth must be all on fire, and the Mosaic elements burnt up; but we, according to the promise made to us by Isaiah the prophet, when all these are consumed, look for the new creation of the evangelical state" (vol. 3, p.453)

"That the destruction of Jerusalem and the whole Jewish state is described as if the whole frame of the world were to be dissolved. Nor is it strange, when God destroyed his habitation and city, places once so dear to him, with so direful and sad an overthrow; his own people, whom he accounted of as much or more than the whole world beside, by so dreadful and amazing plagues. Matt. 24:29,30, 'The sun shall be darkened &c. Then shall appear the 'sign of the Son of man,' &c; which yet are said to fall out within that generation, ver. 34. 2 Pet. 3:10, 'The heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,' &c. Compare with this Deut. 32:22, Heb. 12:26: and observe that by elements are understood the Mosaic elements, Gal 4:9, Coloss. 2:20: and you will not doubt that St. Peter speaks only of the conflagration of Jerusalem, the destruction of the nation, and the abolishing the dispensation of Moses" (vol. 3, p. 452).

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 9, 2019

New heaven, new earth | Christian History Magazine

Both biblical Hebrew and Greek use “the heavens” to point up to the sky, to the starry reaches above that, and to the very abode of God. And many modern biblical scholars and theologians believe that humans are not going “up” there.

Instead, the argument is, Old Testament visions look toward a re-formed Israel enjoying shalom (peace) in the Promised Land and celebrating God in the refurbished, expanded, and glorified city of Jerusalem. Likewise, the New Testament gestures prophetically toward a renewed heaven and earth (parallel with Gen. 1:1) in which the New Jerusalem descends from heaven to earth as the focus of God’s redeemed creation

But biblical language about a new heaven and a new earth sat uneasily together with the focus on the beatific vision for many Reformation theologians. Luther maintained the faithful would merely visit the new earth, while Calvin held that they would find contemplating the surpassing greatness of God far more interesting than tending the new earth.

In fact, church creedal statements since the Reformation have not devoted a lot of space to heaven. Conceived during a period of persecution, the brief Anabaptist Schleitheim Confession of 1527 spoke to the urgencies of the day and didn’t even mention the next life. And in 1530 the Lutheran Augsburg Confession simply offered “eternal life and everlasting joys” in the midst of more pressing matters such as condemning Pelagians, Donatists, and the aforementioned Anabaptists.

The Heidelberg Catechism (1563) promised to Reformed Christians that Jesus Christ, “our Head, will also take us, his members, up to himself” where they will “hereafter reign with him eternally over all creatures.” Beyond those assurances believers could expect to “possess perfect blessedness, such as no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived—a blessedness in which to praise God forever” (an allusion to Is. 64:4).

The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566) gave similar counsels to Roman Catholics: “As for the glory of the blessed, it shall be without measure, and the kinds of their solid joys and pleasures without number.” No article among the Anglican 39 Articles (1571) was devoted to the world to come; instead the Articles promised “everlasting felicity” in a clause dedicated to predestination and election.

But later the catechism promises a new heaven and a new earth right here: “The visible universe, then, is itself destined to be transformed, ‘so that the world itself, restored to its original state, facing no further obstacles, should be at the service of the just,’ sharing their glorification in the risen Jesus Christ” (quoting from Irenaeus, Against the Heretics). Later the writers claimed the world will be “once again, cleansed this time from the stain of sin, illuminated and transfigured, when Christ presents to his Father an eternal and universal kingdom.”

More recent evangelical statements preserve the terseness of their Protestant forebears on the subject. The landmark Lausanne Covenant (1974) only states, “Our Christian confidence is that God will perfect his kingdom, and we look forward with eager anticipation to that day, and to the new heaven and earth in which righteousness will dwell and God will reign forever.” The World Evangelical Alliance has for some time affirmed simply “the Resurrection of both the saved and the lost; they that are saved unto the resurrection of life, they that are lost unto the resurrection of damnation” (John 5:29).

Any work of theology, including confessions, creeds, and statements of faith, is aimed at solving a problem, answering a question, accomplishing a task in a particular context among a particular community.

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 22, 2019

The New Heavens and Earth | Study Archive @ PreteristArchive.com - The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterism

Josephus First, Book III, chap.6, section 4:
"Now the room within those pillars was the most holy place; but the rest of the room was the tabernacle, which was open for the priests. However, this proportion of the measures of the tabernacle proved to be an imitation of the system of the world; for that third part thereof which was within the four pillars, to which the priests were not admitted, is, as it were, a heaven peculiar to God." Of the veil at the holy of holies, he said, "This veil was very ornamental, and embroidered with all sorts of flowers which the earth produces; and there were interwoven into it all sorts of variety that might be an ornament, excepting the forms of animals"

Josephus War 5.1.4 19-20
The darts that were thrown by the engines [of the seditious factions] came with that force, that they went over all the buildings and the Temple itself, and fell upon the priests and those that were about the sacred offices; insomuch that many persons who came thither with great zeal from the ends of the earth to offer sacrifices at this celebrated place, which was esteemed holy by all mankind, fell down before their own sacrifices themselves, and sprinkled that altar which was venerable among all men, both Greeks and barbarians, with their own blood. The dead bodies of strangers were mingled together with those of their own country, and those of profane persons with those of the priests, and the blood of all sorts of dead carcasses stood in lakes in the holy courts themselves. Oh most wretched city, what misery so great as this didst thou suffer from the Romans, when they came to purify thee from thy internal pollutions! For thou couldst be no longer a place fit for God, nor couldst thou longer survive, after thou hadst been a sepulchre for the bodies of thine own people, and hast made the Holy House itself a burying-place in this civil war of thine. Yet mayst thou again grow better, if perchance thou wilt hereafter appease the anger of that God who is the author of thy destruction. But I must restrain myself from these passions by the rules of History, since this is not a proper time for domestic lamentation, but for historical narrations.

EUSEBIUS
Bishop of Caesarea
(c. 265 - 340)
Extract from the 'Theophania' :
"All authorities concur in the declaration that "when all these things should have been done" "The End" should come : that "the mystery of God should be finished as he had declared to His servants the prophets" : it should be completed : time should now be no more : the End of all things (so foretold) should be at hand, and be fully brought to pass : in these days should be fulfilled all that had been spoken of Christ (and of His church) by the prophets : or, in other words, when the gospel should have been preached in all the world for a testimony to all nations, and the power of the Holy People be scattered (abroad), then should the End come, then should all these things be finished. I need now only say, all these things have been done : the old and elementary system passed away with a great noise; all these predicted empires have actually fallen, and the new kingdom, the new heaven and earth, the new Jerusalem--all of which were to descend from God, to be formed by His power, have been realised on earth ; all these things have been done in the sight of all the nations ; God's holy arm has been made bare in their sight: His judgments have prevailed, and they remain for an everlasting testimony to the whole world. His kingdom has come, as it was foretold it should, and His will has, so far, been done; His purposes have been finished; and, from that day to the extreme end of time, it will be the duty, as indeed it will be the great privilege of the Church, to gather into its bosom the Jew, the Greek, the Scythian, the Barbarian, bond and free; and to do this as the Apostles did in their days--in obedience, faith and hope.' "

sdowney717 · Aug 22, 2019

Peter said we look forward to new heavens and a new earth wherein dwells righteousness, according to His promise.
So it had not happened yet when Peter wrote that. Peter had not yet inherited that promise of God when he wrote his letter.
Why would he look to the future, look forward to that if it already happened.

2 Peter 3:12-14 New King James Version (NKJV)
12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

And Paul wrote about this current evil age in which we live. So it would be a false promise if this age was the new age where evil was gone.

AND, we have not yet had the final judgement and the dead being cast in the Lake of Fire.
Which also means its still future.
Because the new heaven and earth appear after the Resurrection of the dead.

Rev 20
The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21 New King James Version (NKJV)
All Things Made New
1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, [a]John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 30, 2019

sdowney717 said:
Peter said we look forward to new heavens and a new earth wherein dwells righteousness, according to His promise.
So it had not happened yet when Peter wrote that. Peter had not yet inherited that promise of God when he wrote his letter.
Why would he look to the future, look forward to that if it already happened.

2 Peter 3:12-14 New King James Version (NKJV)
12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

And Paul wrote about this current evil age in which we live. So it would be a false promise if this age was the new age where evil was gone.

AND, we have not yet had the final judgement and the dead being cast in the Lake of Fire.
Which also means its still future.
Because the new heaven and earth appear after the Resurrection of the dead.

Rev 20
The Great White Throne Judgment
11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.

Revelation 21 New King James Version (NKJV)
All Things Made New
1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.

5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

6 And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Peter was talking to the 1st century pre-70AD Jews and why he was warning them that the old order of the OC Temple was soon coming to an end...........

1 Peter 4:7 "THE END OF ALL THINGS IS NIGH AT HAND"

1 Peter 4:7
Of all-things<3956> yet, the End<5056> is nigh<1448>.
Be sane<4993> then, and be sober<3529> into the prayers,

5056. telos tel'-os from a primary tello
(to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination (literally, figuratively or indefinitely), result (immediate, ultimate or prophetic), purpose); specially, an impost or levy (as paid):--+ continual, custom, end(-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare 5411.

1448. eggizo eng-id'-zo from 1451;
to make near, i.e. (reflexively) approach:--approach, be at hand, come (draw) near, be (come, draw) nigh.
=================================
A few commentaries

EXEGETICAL (ORIGINAL LANGUAGES)

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges

7. But the end of all things is at hand]
The words are spoken, as are nearly all the eschatological utterances of the New Testament, within the horizon of the Apostle’s knowledge, and it had not been given to him to know the “times and the seasons” (Acts 1:7).
His language was the natural inference from our Lord’s words, “then shall the end be” (Matthew 24:6-14).
The times in which the disciples lived were to them the “last times” (1 Timothy 4:1; 1 John 2:18).
They looked for the coming of the Lord as not far off (Romans 13:12; James 5:8).
They expected to be among those who should be living when He came (1 Corinthians 15:51), who should be caught up to meet Him in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17).
A few years—we might almost say, looking to 2 Peter 3:8, a few months—sufficed to shew that the divine plan extended over a wider range than their thoughts and expectations. And yet, in one very real sense, they were not altogether mistaken.

The end of all that they had known and lived in, the end of one great æon, or dispensation, was indeed nigh at hand. The old order was changing and giving place to the new. There was to be a great removal of the things that were shaken, that had decayed and waxed old, that the things that could not be shaken might remain (Hebrews 12:27).
=========================================
EXPOSITORY (ENGLISH BIBLE)

John Brown (1852)

“After some deliberation I have been led to adopt the opinion of those who hold that “the end of all things” here is the entire end of the Jewish economy in the destruction of the city and temple of Jerusalem, and the dispersion of the holy people. That was at hand; for this epistle seems to have been written a very short while before these events took place, not improbably after the commencement of the “wars and rumours of wars” of which our Lord spake.

This view will not appear strange to any one who has carefully weighed the terms in which our Lord had predicted these events, and the close connection which the fulfillment of these predictions had with the interests and duties of Christians, whether in Judea or in Gentile countries.

It is quite plain that in our Lord’s prediction the expressions “the end,” and probably “the end of the world,” are used in reference to the entire dissolution of the Jewish economy. The events of that period were very minutely foretold, and our Lord distinctly stated that the existing generation should not pass away till all things respecting “this end” should be fulfilled,

This was to be a season of suffering for all; of trial, severe trial, to the followers of Christ; of dreadful judgment on His Jewish opposers, and of glorious triumph to His religion.
To this period there are repeated references in the apostolical epistles. “Knowing the time,” says the Apostle Paul, “that now it is high time to awake out of sleep, for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand.” “Be patient,” says the Apostle James; “stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” “The Judge standeth before the door.”

Our Lord’s predictions must have been very familiar to the minds of Christians at the time this was written.
They must have been looking forward with mingled awe and joy, fear and hope, to their accomplishment: “looking for the things which were coming on the earth;” and it was peculiarly natural for Peter to refer to these events, and to refer to them in words similar to those used by our Lord, as he was one of the disciples who, sitting with his Lord in full view of the city and temple, hears these predictions uttered.

The Christians inhabiting Judea had a peculiar interest in these predictions and their fulfillment. But all Christians had a deep interest in them. The Christians of the regions in which those to whom Peter wrote resided were chiefly converted Jews.
As Christians they had cause to rejoice in the prospect of the accomplishment of the predictions, as greatly confirming the truth of Christianity and removing some of the greatest obstructions in the way of its progress, such as persecutions by the Jews, and the confounding of Christianity with Judaism on the part of the Gentiles, who were accustomed to view its professors as a Jewish sect. But while they rejoiced, they had cause to “rejoice with trembling,” as their Lord had plainly intimated that it was to be a season of severe trial to his friends, as well as of fearful vengeance against His enemies.

“The end of all things,” which was at hand, seems to be the same thing as the judgment of the quick and the dead, which the Lord was ready to enter on- the judgment, the time for which was come, which was to begin with the house of God, and then to be executed fully on those who obeyed not the Gospel of God, the unbelieving Jews, in which the righteous should scarcely be saved, and the ungodly and wicked should be fearfully punished.

The contemplation of each such events as just at hand was well fitted to operate as a motive to sobriety and vigilance unto prayer. These were just the tempers and exercises peculiarly called for in such circumstances, and they are just the dispositions and employments required by our Lord when He speaks of those days of trial and wrath: “Take heed to yourselves,” says our Lord, “lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and the cares of this life and so that day come on you unawares; for as a snare shall it come upon all who dwell on the earth.
Watch, therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are about to come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

It is difficult to believe that the apostle had not these very words in his mind when he wrote the passage now before us.” (Expository Discourses on 1 Peter, vol. ii. pp.292-294)

sdowney717 · Oct 30, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Peter was talking to the 1st century pre-70AD Jews and why he was warning them that the old order of the OC Temple was soon coming to an end...........

1 Peter 4:7 "THE END OF ALL THINGS IS NIGH AT HAND"

1 Peter 4:7
Of all-things<3956> yet, the End<5056> is nigh<1448>.
Be sane<4993> then, and be sober<3529> into the prayers,

5056. telos tel'-os from a primary tello
(to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination (literally, figuratively or indefinitely), result (immediate, ultimate or prophetic), purpose); specially, an impost or levy (as paid):--+ continual, custom, end(-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare 5411.

1448. eggizo eng-id'-zo from 1451;
to make near, i.e. (reflexively) approach:--approach, be at hand, come (draw) near, be (come, draw) nigh.
=================================
A few commentaries

EXEGETICAL (ORIGINAL LANGUAGES)

Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges

7. But the end of all things is at hand]
The words are spoken, as are nearly all the eschatological utterances of the New Testament, within the horizon of the Apostle’s knowledge, and it had not been given to him to know the “times and the seasons” (Acts 1:7).
His language was the natural inference from our Lord’s words, “then shall the end be” (Matthew 24:6-14).
The times in which the disciples lived were to them the “last times” (1 Timothy 4:1; 1 John 2:18).
They looked for the coming of the Lord as not far off (Romans 13:12; James 5:8).
They expected to be among those who should be living when He came (1 Corinthians 15:51), who should be caught up to meet Him in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:17).
A few years—we might almost say, looking to 2 Peter 3:8, a few months—sufficed to shew that the divine plan extended over a wider range than their thoughts and expectations. And yet, in one very real sense, they were not altogether mistaken.

The end of all that they had known and lived in, the end of one great æon, or dispensation, was indeed nigh at hand. The old order was changing and giving place to the new. There was to be a great removal of the things that were shaken, that had decayed and waxed old, that the things that could not be shaken might remain (Hebrews 12:27).
=========================================
EXPOSITORY (ENGLISH BIBLE)

John Brown (1852)

“After some deliberation I have been led to adopt the opinion of those who hold that “the end of all things” here is the entire end of the Jewish economy in the destruction of the city and temple of Jerusalem, and the dispersion of the holy people. That was at hand; for this epistle seems to have been written a very short while before these events took place, not improbably after the commencement of the “wars and rumours of wars” of which our Lord spake.

This view will not appear strange to any one who has carefully weighed the terms in which our Lord had predicted these events, and the close connection which the fulfillment of these predictions had with the interests and duties of Christians, whether in Judea or in Gentile countries.

It is quite plain that in our Lord’s prediction the expressions “the end,” and probably “the end of the world,” are used in reference to the entire dissolution of the Jewish economy. The events of that period were very minutely foretold, and our Lord distinctly stated that the existing generation should not pass away till all things respecting “this end” should be fulfilled,

This was to be a season of suffering for all; of trial, severe trial, to the followers of Christ; of dreadful judgment on His Jewish opposers, and of glorious triumph to His religion.
To this period there are repeated references in the apostolical epistles. “Knowing the time,” says the Apostle Paul, “that now it is high time to awake out of sleep, for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. The night is far spent, the day is at hand.” “Be patient,” says the Apostle James; “stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.” “The Judge standeth before the door.”

Our Lord’s predictions must have been very familiar to the minds of Christians at the time this was written.
They must have been looking forward with mingled awe and joy, fear and hope, to their accomplishment: “looking for the things which were coming on the earth;” and it was peculiarly natural for Peter to refer to these events, and to refer to them in words similar to those used by our Lord, as he was one of the disciples who, sitting with his Lord in full view of the city and temple, hears these predictions uttered.

The Christians inhabiting Judea had a peculiar interest in these predictions and their fulfillment. But all Christians had a deep interest in them. The Christians of the regions in which those to whom Peter wrote resided were chiefly converted Jews.
As Christians they had cause to rejoice in the prospect of the accomplishment of the predictions, as greatly confirming the truth of Christianity and removing some of the greatest obstructions in the way of its progress, such as persecutions by the Jews, and the confounding of Christianity with Judaism on the part of the Gentiles, who were accustomed to view its professors as a Jewish sect. But while they rejoiced, they had cause to “rejoice with trembling,” as their Lord had plainly intimated that it was to be a season of severe trial to his friends, as well as of fearful vengeance against His enemies.

“The end of all things,” which was at hand, seems to be the same thing as the judgment of the quick and the dead, which the Lord was ready to enter on- the judgment, the time for which was come, which was to begin with the house of God, and then to be executed fully on those who obeyed not the Gospel of God, the unbelieving Jews, in which the righteous should scarcely be saved, and the ungodly and wicked should be fearfully punished.

The contemplation of each such events as just at hand was well fitted to operate as a motive to sobriety and vigilance unto prayer. These were just the tempers and exercises peculiarly called for in such circumstances, and they are just the dispositions and employments required by our Lord when He speaks of those days of trial and wrath: “Take heed to yourselves,” says our Lord, “lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and the cares of this life and so that day come on you unawares; for as a snare shall it come upon all who dwell on the earth.
Watch, therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are about to come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

It is difficult to believe that the apostle had not these very words in his mind when he wrote the passage now before us.” (Expository Discourses on 1 Peter, vol. ii. pp.292-294)

What you fail to connect though is Jesus tells us His coming is as the time of Noah...
And the flood destroyed all the wicked all over the earth...It was a worldwide destruction of the wicked, and there were many wicked at 70 AD and afterwards still left all over the earth...and still are here today, so no, the Day of Judgement is not yet fallen on the world.

Matthew 24:37-39 New King James Version (NKJV)
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,

39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

However all those around Jerusalem were witness to the events of that destruction and it was no sudden surprise to any of them.
Romans were wicked gentiles, the Jews were wicked rejectors of Christ, God would not leave all those wicked unjudged by Him if that was Judgement Day.
That coming Day of the Lord is a day of wrath on all the nations of the world all over the earth.
And it is a sudden destruction, a total surprise to them. Both Jesus and Paul teach this. It comes as a thief in the night and the Roman destruction does not qualify in all sorts of ways.
“Peace and safety!” is not what any of them were saying.
Neither Romans or Jews were saying peace and safety....

1 Thessalonians 5 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Day of the Lord
1 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you.

2 For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. 3 For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.

4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. 7 For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. 8 But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. 9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.

God has appointed the unbelieving world to wrath which everyone will witness on that DAY when He returns, just as Paul teaches will happen to unbelievers, He is REVEALED WITH MIGHTY ANGELS, every eye will see Him when He returns, and that also did not happen in 70 AD.

6 since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you,
7 and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
10 when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed.

DennisTate · Nov 12, 2019

You might find this rather interesting?

George Ritchie's Near-Death Experience

e. His Observations of the Temple of Wisdom

The following is the testimony of George Ritchie's Temple of Wisdom and Heavenly City Experience: They then travel to a completely different realm where some kind of enormous university is located. Spirits dressed as monks busily and happily engaged in some form of artistic behavior or research. An enormous library exists here where all the important books of the universe are assembled. Ritchie asks Jesus if this is heaven. These are the spirits of people who grew beyond selfish desires while on Earth; but, like the spirits in hell, these spirits cannot see Jesus either.

f. His Vision of the Heavenly City

Ritchie is then taken into outer space toward a distant city made of brilliant light - similar in description to the heavenly city in the Book of Revelation (see also Revelation 21:10-27.) This is the place where people go who have become like Jesus while on Earth - a place where love is the dominant focus of life. This is heaven he realizes; but he is not allowed to enter it. Instead, Jesus shows him the future of Earth and is told to return to his physical body. At this point, Ritchie is revived from death.

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Views on the New Heaven/s and Earth mentioned in OT and NT

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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sdowney717

Newbie

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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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sdowney717

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DennisTate

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