Change is Coming

Sorry but i disagree with your 'view' of end times.

I guess you mean the 'new' earth?

keras said:

Jesus said in Matthew 24:32-33, when the fig tree buds, then the present generation [those alive when that happens] will live to see it all. All meaning; prophesied events.

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Re-read this.

Mat 24:32-35
32) Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33) So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35) Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Now, if you have read this far, open your Bible with a reliable Concordance by your side, and do a Word Study on. "THIS GENERATION" and when you find out just who Jesus was speaking about when He used the words
"THIS GENERATION" then and only then, will you know He was not referring to US of the 21 century.

keras said:

It is you who will be sorry when disaster strikes and you don't know what to do.

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The only thing to do, is do as Jesus instructed in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

Lost4words said: ↑
Sorry but i disagree with your 'view' of end times.

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I agree with your disagreement

keras said:

It is you who will be sorry when disaster strikes and you don't know what to do.

No, the New heavens and the New Earth do not come until after the Millennium.
Before that, many prophesies tell of a regenerated and prosperous holy Land, where all the faithful Christian peoples will live.

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The Preterists view of a New Heaven and Earth...much of what I agree with, since I view Revelation as "COVENANTAL".......OC VS NC

The New Heavens and Earth | Study Archive @ PreteristArchive.com - The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterism

Global, Covenantal, or Personal?

"Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens, and a new earth." II Peter 3:13

John Brown (1853)
" 'Heaven and earth passing,' understood literally, is the dissolution of the present system of the universe, and the period when that is to take place, is called the 'end of the world.'
But a person at all familiar with the phraseology of the Old Testament Scriptures, knows that the dissolution of the Mosaic economy, and the establishment of the Christian, is often spoken of as the removing of the old earth and heavens, and the creation of a new earth and new heavens" (vol. 1, p. 170)

"It appears, then, that is Scripture be the best interpreter of Scripture, we have in the Old Testament a key to the interpretation of the prophecies in the New. The same symbolism is found in both, and the imagery of Isaiah, Ezekiel, and the other prophets helps us to understand the imagery of St. Matthew, St. Peter, and St. John. As the dissolution of the material world is not necessary to the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, neither is it necessary to the accomplishment of the predictions of the New Testament.
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The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ; the solemn warnings and admonitions which they hold out to all nations, but especially such as are favoured with the light and blessings of REVELATION
=============================
Gary DeMar (1996)
"Jesus does not change subjects when He assures the disciples that "heaven and earth will pass away." Rather, He merely affirms His prior predictions, which are recorded in Matthew 24:2931. Verse 36 is a summary and confirmation statement of these verses.(6) Keep in mind that the central focus of the Olivet Discourse is the desolation of the "house" and "world" of apostate Israel (23:36). The old world of Judaism, represented by the earthly temple, is taken apart stone by stone (24:2). James Jordan writes, "each time God brought judgment on His people during the Old Covenant, there was a sense in which an old heavens and earth was replaced with a new one: New rulers were set up, a new symbolic world model was built (Tabernacle, Temple), and so forth."(7) The New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant with new leaders, a new priesthood, new sacraments, a new sacrifice, a new tabernacle (John 1:14), and a new temple (John 2:19; 1 Corinthians 3:16; Ephesians 2:21). In essence, a new heaven and earth.
====================
John Lightfoot (1859)
"That the destruction of Jerusalem is very frequently expressed in Scripture as if it were the destruction of the whole world, Deut. 32:22; "A fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.' Jer. 4:23; 'I beheld the earth, and lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light,' &c. The discourse there also is concerning the destruction of that nation, Isa. 65:17; 'Behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered,' &c. And more passages of this sort among the prophets. According to this sense, Christ speaks in this place; and Peter speaks in his Second Epistle, third chapter; and John, in the sixth of the Revelation; and Paul, 2 Cor. 5:17, &c. (vol. 2, pp. 18-19
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Josephus First, Book III, chap.6, section 4:
"Now the room within those pillars was the most holy place; but the rest of the room was the tabernacle, which was open for the priests. However, this proportion of the measures of the tabernacle proved to be an imitation of the system of the world; for that third part thereof which was within the four pillars, to which the priests were not admitted, is, as it were, a heaven peculiar to God." Of the veil at the holy of holies, he said, "This veil was very ornamental, and embroidered with all sorts of flowers which the earth produces; and there were interwoven into it all sorts of variety that might be an ornament, excepting the forms of animals"
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Josephus War 5.1.4 19-20
The darts that were thrown by the engines [of the seditious factions] came with that force, that they went over all the buildings and the Temple itself, and fell upon the priests and those that were about the sacred offices; insomuch that many persons who came thither with great zeal from the ends of the earth to offer sacrifices at this celebrated place, which was esteemed holy by all mankind, fell down before their own sacrifices themselves, and sprinkled that altar which was venerable among all men, both Greeks and barbarians, with their own blood. The dead bodies of strangers were mingled together with those of their own country, and those of profane persons with those of the priests, and the blood of all sorts of dead carcasses stood in lakes in the holy courts themselves. Oh most wretched city, what misery so great as this didst thou suffer from the Romans, when they came to purify thee from thy internal pollutions! For thou couldst be no longer a place fit for God, nor couldst thou longer survive, after thou hadst been a sepulchre for the bodies of thine own people, and hast made the Holy House itself a burying-place in this civil war of thine. Yet mayst thou again grow better, if perchance thou wilt hereafter appease the anger of that God who is the author of thy destruction. But I must restrain myself from these passions by the rules of History, since this is not a proper time for domestic lamentation, but for historical narrations.
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Isaiah 51:15-16 | Hebrews 12:25-29

Another example of "heaven and earth" being referred to the Covenant World of Israel, and not literal creation, is Isaiah 51:16, "And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

Notice that God is speaking to Israel. He says he gave them his law, the Old Covenant, the same law Jesus is speaking about in Matthew 5:17-18, to establish heaven and lay the foundation of the earth!

Clearly God is not saying he gave the Old Covenant to Israel to create literal heaven and earth! Material creation existed long before Israel was ever given the Old Covenant.

Isaiah 51:16 And I have put my words in your mouth and covered you in the shadow of my hand, establishing the heavens and laying the foundations of the earth, and saying to Zion, 'You are my people.'

Who is God speaking to in Isaiah 1:1-2, "…Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth." The physical creation?

No, he is speaking to Israel. And who is the witness in Deuteronomy 4:26, "I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day"? Physical creation or Old Covenant Israel?

JIMINZ said:

Re-read this.

Mat 24:32-35
32) Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33) So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34) Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35) Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Now, if you have read this far, open your Bible with a reliable Concordance by your side, and do a Word Study on. "THIS GENERATION" and when you find out just who Jesus was speaking about when He used the words
"THIS GENERATION" then and only then, will you know He was not referring to US of the 21 century.

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Great verses!

For those who haven't yet seen my Olivet Discourse harmonized thread, just click on a Matt 24 verse on the opening OP post and it will take you to the post that includes the Mar and Luk verses.
Please feel free to comment on it...........

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24:32
Yet from the fig-tree be ye learning! the parable:
Whenever already its branch may be becoming tender, and the leaves may be sprouting<1631>,
ye are knowing that nigh the summer
Mark 13:28
‘Yet from the fig-tree, be ye learning the parable.
When the branch of it tender may be becoming, and may be sprouting<1631> the leaves,
ye are knowing that nigh is the summer
Luke 21:
29 And He told a parable to them. Be seeing the fig-tree and all the trees,
30 whenever they should be budding<4261> already observing from yourselves
ye are knowing thru that already nigh is the summer
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Matthew 24:33
Thus also ye whenever ye may being seeing all these,
be ye knowing! that nigh it is being upon doors.
Mark 13:29
thus also ye, whenever ye may be seeing these becoming,
be knowing! that nigh, it is being upon doors.
Luke 21:31
Thus also ye, whenever ye may be seeing these becoming,
ye are knowing that nigh is being the Kingdom of the God;
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"THIS GENERATION" in Bible

Matthew 24:34
Amen I am saying to ye,
not no may be passing away this generation till ever all these may be becoming
Mark 13:30
Amen I am saying to ye,
not no be passing away this generation unto of which any these all may be becoming
Luke 21:32
Amen I am saying to ye
that not no may be passing away this generation till ever all may be becoming.

Which "generation" and what people is Jesus referring to in Olivet Discourse

1. 
   Just the Jews of the 1st Century
   8 vote(s)
   34.8%
2. Both Jews and Gentiles of 1st century
   3 vote(s)
   13.0%
3. Just the Gentiles in 1st century
   0 vote(s)
   0.0%
4. The whole world
   3 vote(s)
   13.0%
5. I am not sure but am willing to learn
   0 vote(s)
   0.0%
6. Other [please explain]
   9 vote(s)
   39.1%

===========================
Matthew 24:35
The heaven and the earth shall be passing away,
the yet words of Me not no shall be passing away.
Mark 13:31
The Heaven and the earth shall be passing away,
the yet words of Me not no shall be passing away.
Luke 21:33
The Heaven and earth shall be passing away,
the yet words of Me not no shall be passing away.

Keras, You’ve been on Christian forums saying these things are “coming soon” for seven years now…

And I’d wager to say you’ve been saying they’ve been coming soon in other public forums, Internet or otherwise, for decades prior…am I right?

Tell us, How many decades now have you been warning your fellow man that these things are “coming soon”?

Have you been saying that since the 50’s?
The 60’s?

Obviously you think “soon” from today can be at least seven years away... And probably much more...

Could it be 20?
50?
100?
1000?

When does “soon” expire?

Was there ever a time in your life where you believed and taught that these things were “far off” ...not coming for decades, or perhaps even a century away?

Or, for the past several decades have you always believed and professed it to be “coming soon”.

Does “soon” actually mean anything to you if you've been using it so open endedly, for the past several decades?... perhaps even saying “it’s coming soon” for 50 or 60 years now?

If you’ve been saying “it’s coming soon” for 50 years or more now, then How can we believe that soon means less than 50 years to you?

I’m 53... You’ve been telling me these things are coming soon for seven years… Did you tell any 53-year-olds that these things were coming soon 50 years ago so they Should be prepared? If so those who were 53-year-olds, 50 years ago, are all dead and gone, so them Heeding your warning, and preparing For these soon coming events, profited them nothing.

How are we to decipher what you mean by “soon” if you’ve been using the term “coming soon” for several decades now?

keras said:

Friends, we should all be aware of soon to happen, dramatic changes coming to this world. Many things simply cannot continue as they are for much longer.

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Each generation has at best around 120 years to get things done. Matthew 24:37-39

Obviously a segment of the population will have it pretty good right up until the end, including some of those who prophesy. Matthew 7:21-23

keras said:

Easy; you see it from God's perspective. Soon to Him can be 1000 years for us.
Anyway, even in our experience, myself as a 78 year old man, seven years isn't such a long time, it all just seems to go by so quickly!

But I will admit to being somewhat premature in my earlier posts., 2012 onward. Got a bit carried away in my enthusiasm.
All those who do see a 'soon' happening of the prophesies leading up to the Return of Jesus, are the 'voices crying in the wilderness', and we expect nothing other than the comments such as you make.
The end time events will come as a surprise to you and to most Christians. Actually, from what I see, the secular world knows more about and is preparing for the forthcoming worldwide disaster, as is well prophesied. Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17

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The problem being, is that since Christianity began, people such as yourself have been saying the exact same thing!

Anytime now!

I do agree with change is coming. The fig tree. I try to make sure I don't read into what is not clearly said. By that I mean I 1st when I was young just took what others said about the fig tree. When I read it I didn't get that, see it as Israel. I at the time knew nothing about it (fig tree) has in the past sometimes referred to Israel. But when I try to say, think its not about Israel.. I have to look at all the times the bible talked about Israel as a nation when it was not! NOW it is.. and NO ONE can say its not blooming. And day in day out.. the world hates her more and more.

Preacher..well known home now once said that he was POST trib. Then added "but.. but if JESUS comes pre trib? I am ready now!" loved that. Very wise. Since none can be proven as fact. So.. I live in this moment.. always looking up always thinking of my KING! And believe we are in the end times.. but my Father controls time. He can make this last another 30 years or one more second and still be in line with the word.

keras said:

Easy; you see it from God's perspective. Soon to Him can be 1000 years for us.

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God doesn't have SOON... just as God doesn't have a long time... those are exclusively HUMAN constructs which God is not bound to.

Surely you know this?
God is OUTSIDE of time...God doesn't have to wait SOON for anything...

But I will admit to being somewhat premature in my earlier posts., 2012 onward. Got a bit carried away in my enthusiasm.

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But you will not admit that you could still be clouded by the same previous error of enthusiasm today?

What about 50 years ago... when you were 28? did you believe and profess these things were at that time "coming soon" or did you believe and profess that they were Far off... more than 50 or 60 years away??

The end time events will come as a surprise to you and to most Christians.

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No they won't... not to me... I've been around you and folks with similar opinions long enough that IF they do come to pass as you and others have been claiming, soon or not, I'll know.

I'm prepared.

It IS possible to be prepared for an event while also believing that event is unlikely to happen in your lifetime.

That's why I have a disaster Kit for an earthquake or other such tumult.

Odds still are that I won't need it, but I'm prepared anyway.

All through Christianity we have had thousands if not more, people, claiming the end was nigh!

Lost4words said:

All through Christianity we have had thousands if not more, people, claiming the end was nigh!

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Seems to me, the Apostles were the only ones with the authority to do so....

keras said:

Easy; you see it from God's perspective. Soon to Him can be 1000 years for us.

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ISTM that, in the Bible, when events are far away that's been made clear (that time isn't some "known only to God and His exclusive insider's list" concept):

Revelation 1:3
3 Blessed is he who reads aloud the words of the prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written therein; for the time is near.

Not over 2,000 years away!

In Daniel 8:26 "the distant future" was about 400 years - so it doesn't make sense to me that "soon" would come to mean over 2000 years.



Between the purported time of Daniel’s vision and the death of Antiochus Epiphanes there were approximately three hundred and eighty-seven years. According to the angel in Daniel’s vision, three hundred and eighty-seven years is considered “the distant future.” Daniel claims to have received his vision in the third year of the reign of Belshazzar which was approximately 551 B.C. Antiochus Epiphanes died in 164 B.C

Lost4words said:

The problem being, is that since Christianity began, people such as yourself have been saying the exact same thing!

Anytime now!

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And long after he is gone silly people will be saying the same thing because they rely on themselves only