How would you describe saving faith vs just "faith"?

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Yes I absolutely agree. Circumcision did not result in salvation although God never promised eternal life to the Jews in the Old Testament. He only promised them prosperity in this world.

"Grace through faith in the Lord + Sanctification" is the salvation equation.
This was always the case for both the Old Covenant (and it's respective laws), and the New Covenant (after the cross) (and it's respective laws).

Sanctification is our coopering with the good work God wants to do through us by our obedience to His commands (or to His Word). Our obedience is an expression of our faith in God. True faith and trust in the Lord is one that obeys.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Well, not exactly. Under the Old Covenant: Genesis 17:14 says that circumcision did play a part in salvation (Sanctification), but it was AFTER saving faith in the coming Messiah and or GOD (Justification).

Here is the verse that says circumcision was for salvation (Under the Old Covenant - which is now no more).

"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).
A person who was not circumcised was in effect breaking God's covenant, and cut off from his people. A person cannot break God's covenant, and be cut off from his people and be saved.

Circumcision was a part of obedience to God as a part of one's faith in the Lord (When the Old Covenant was in effect before the cross). Circumcision was not a command given to us by Jesus and His followers as a part of the Kingdom under His New Covenant teachings.

But the old covenant never promised salvation it promised prosperity in this world. Eternal salvation was never promised under the old covenant.
 
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But the old covenant never promised salvation it promised prosperity in this world. Eternal salvation was never promised under the old covenant.

No. Under the OT: Eternal Salvation was promised through faith in the coming Messiah. In fact, the Israelites (who passed through the Red Sea) once drank of the Rock of Christ.

"And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ." (1 Corinthians 10:4).

Yes, they did not know the name of Jesus, but they drank of Jesus (spiritually speaking). They abided with the Lord and His salvation by trusting in God in their following God out of Egypt. Big pillar of fire by night, and a pillar of cloud by day. Then there was also the messenger of the Lord. The messenger of the Lord that followed the Israelites in the Exodus was Christ.
 
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"Grace through faith in the Lord + Sanctification" is the salvation equation.
This was always the case for both the Old Covenant (and it's respective laws), and the New Covenant (after the cross) (and it's respective laws).

Sanctification is our coopering with the good work God wants to do through us by our obedience to His commands (or to His Word). Our obedience is an expression of our faith in God. True faith and trust in the Lord is one that obeys.

Nevertheless nowhere in the old covenant is eternal life ever promised.
 
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Nevertheless nowhere in the old covenant is eternal life ever promised.

I can talk about a cat without using the word cat and you would understand that I am talking about a cat.

The same is true in the Old Covenant in regards to the promise of eternal life.

Rather than reinvent the wheel all over again on this particular study, here is a snippet from an article that says that OT promised eternal life.

"Job had the assurance that although he was going to be eaten by worms, he would receive a new body and in that body would actually see God face to face, obviously conscious. In Job 19:25-27 he says that “I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God; I myself will see him with my own eyes—I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me!”

Then there’s Isaiah 26:19: “But your dead will live; their bodies will rise. You, who dwell in the dust, wake up and shout for joy. Your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead.”

Here’s Daniel 12:1-3, which is quite clear: “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book— will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.”"​


Source:
Is There an Expectation of Eternal Life in the Old Testament? - Topical Studies
(Note: Please take note that I do not agree with everything this website teaches or promotes). I am merely in agreement with what is stated here.
 
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BNR32FAN

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I can talk about a cat without using the word cat and you would understand that I am talking about a cat.

The same is true in the Old Covenant in regards to the promise of eternal life.

Rather than reinvent the wheel all over again on this particular study, here is a snippet from an article that says that OT promised eternal life.

"Job had the assurance that although he was going to be eaten by worms, he would receive a new body and in that body would actually see God face to face, obviously conscious. In Job 19:25-27 he says that “I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been destroyed, yet in my flesh I will see God; I myself will see him with my own eyes—I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me!”

Then there’s Isaiah 26:19: “But your dead will live; their bodies will rise. You, who dwell in the dust, wake up and shout for joy. Your dew is like the dew of the morning; the earth will give birth to her dead.”

Here’s Daniel 12:1-3, which is quite clear: “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book— will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.”"​


Source:
Is There an Expectation of Eternal Life in the Old Testament? - Topical Studies
(Note: Please take note that I do not agree with everything this website teaches or promotes). I am merely in agreement with what is stated here.

But these are prophecies of the new covenant not the old covenant.
 
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But these are prophecies of the new covenant not the old covenant.

If a person abides in Christ, they have eternal life (1 John 5:12). 1 Corinthians 10:4 says the Israelites drank of the Rock of Christ. If a person drinks of the Rock of Christ, they have eternal life. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. A person cannot take eternal life out of Jesus. Eternal life is not a super power, it is a person named Jesus.

There is no other name under Heaven by which men can be saved. Salvation was always in Jesus.
 
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But these are prophecies of the new covenant not the old covenant.

The New Covenant officially began with Christ's death. In the Old Covenant (before the death of Christ): Mary said, "And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour" (Luke 1:47).

Why is Mary rejoicing in a Savior if there was no means of salvation under the Old Covenant yet?

Why did David seek forgiveness of his sins with God in Psalms 51 if it did not deal with his right standing with the Lord (i.e. salvation)?

Please take note that if you were to do a keyword search on the word "salvation" at BlueLetterBible, you will find that the Psalms talk a lot about salvation. Why are they talking about salvation if it did not exist in the Old Covenant?
 
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DamianWarS

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How do you understand this?
likely true faith/pseudo faith.

the parable of the wise man who builds his house on rock vs the foolish who builds it on sand comes to mind as a biblical example of what this could be describing.
 
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Guojing

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I just pointed out Peter's testimony in Acts 11 and Acts 15 showing their has always been just One Gospel.

Finally, on the Gospel...The Gospel Paul proclaims in 1 Corinthians 15 all have been preaching, including the 11 Apostles is exactly the same as what Jesus commanded here:

Peter didn't even realized that Gentiles could be accepted by God until the Cornelius incident. He would not have gone to Cornelius place, a gentile, since the Law explicitly forbid a Jew to associate with a Gentile, if the Holy Spirit had not shown him multiple times to go.

They weren't following the Law, they weren't circumcised but they received the Holy Spirit, which astonished all of the Jews then, including Peter.

If Peter knew all along what the ascended Christ finally revealed to Paul, Peter would not have been astonished by what happened in Cornelius place.
 
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How would you describe saving faith vs just "faith"?
How do you understand this?

"Faith" (in general that does not deal with salvation) is a belief or trust in something like say: "Trusting that the other person on the other side of the road is not going to swerve into your lane to kill you when you drive." or "Trusting that the "Sun will rise the next morning." or "Trusting that gravity will affect an object that you throw." or "Trusting that the Earth is round and not flat based on the limited observable evidence you seen." This kind of faith can sometimes involve action on our part, but it is the kind of faith that does not save because it does not involve God or the Lord Jesus Christ (in relation to salvation in Him).

"Saving Faith" obviously deals with salvation involving the Lord. Besides death bed confessions of accepting Christ, a "Saving Faith" (that lives itself out) is more than mere intellectual belief alone that Jesus is our Savior (with no visible good fruit).

For example: If Rick said that his old rocking chair on his porch was able to hold his weight, and he said he believed that with all his heart, would he truly be showing forth that his statement of faith was true if he never sat in the chair? Especially if he was asked to sit in it and yet he refused to do so? In other words, if Rick believed that his porch chair would hold his weight (and he told others this), he would no doubt take the action necessary by sitting in that chair to prove that such a statement was true. Otherwise it would just be an empty profession of faith. In other words, if a person says they love God, and they have no visible good fruit to show that such a thing is true, then it would be just an empty profession of faith that they love God. Meaning, they really do not love God. It would just be a paying of lip service. I mean, a man can say he loves his wife, but if he does nothing to please her in any way, then he really does not love her. Action shows forth whether one's faith is the genuine and the real article vs. it being fake.

The salvation equation is:

"God's grace through faith in Jesus + Sanctification (Works of Faith by God working in us)" = Salvation.

A person is first saved by accepting Jesus as their Savior, and then they continue to abide in the Lord, and His good ways (i.e. they continue to abide in the person who is the source of salvation itself - See 1 John 5:12, which will naturally lead to good fruit or our cooperation with keeping the Lord's commandments within the New Testament).
 
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If a person abides in Christ, they have eternal life (1 John 5:12). 1 Corinthians 10:4 says the Israelites drank of the Rock of Christ. If a person drinks of the Rock of Christ, they have eternal life. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. A person cannot take eternal life out of Jesus. Eternal life is not a super power, it is a person named Jesus.

There is no other name under Heaven by which men can be saved. Salvation was always in Jesus.

John 15:6 says a person can fail to abide in Christ.
 
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John 15:6 says a person can fail to abide in Christ.

I agree with that 100%. John 15:6, and many other verses clearly teach that salvation is conditional.
 
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So you either have faith or not. Where is the need to distinguish between faith and saving faith.

The Bible talks about different kinds of faith. While it does not use the term "saving faith", it is clear that not all faith saves. Some faith is mere words. Some faith is shallow and temporary. Some faith is faith in a false understanding of Christ. These false faiths should be distinguished from the genuine article because the Bible distinguishes them. To say that you either have faith or not is too two dimensional and does not do justice to the complicated picture the Bible paints.
 
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Well Paul said we can have faith to move mountains but if we don’t have love we are nothing. I believe this is a very relevant point. The goats appear to be condemned in Matthew 25 for lack or absence of love. James 2:14-16 could also support this statement as well as John 15:1-14.
So having faith without actions is useless. I agree.
 
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Yarddog

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Not as far as i know. There is James 2 that says faith without works is dead. Wouldn't that be "just faith"?
Many people acknowledge God's exist. Many believe he is the creator and Father of Jesus Christ. They believe that they have faith but many don't truly accept the message. They don't follow God but look back to what they were called out of. Manny say they believe but judge others as the Pharisees did. They say they believe but hold onto the law as their way instead the embracing " The Way", Jesus Christ.
 
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Guojing:

Before you mentioned Acts of the Apostles 21:25, and then you removed it. While I do not agree with everything Boice says, here is part of a commentary by James Montgomery Boice (to help you to understand where I am coming from on this verse):

"Was Paul wrong in going to Jerusalem? There are two sides to the argument. Some commentators have pointed out that in Acts 20, when Paul said that the Holy Spirit had been warning him in every city that prison and hardships awaited him, the first part of the statement also says, “And now, compelled by the Spirit, I am going to Jerusalem” (v. 22). If that means that Paul was being led by the Holy Spirit to go to Jerusalem, it cancels out what I was saying in the last chapter. But it is ambiguous. One might argue that the words “compelled by the Spirit,” since they lack the word “Holy” before “Spirit,” merely refer to an inner compulsion on Paul’s part. I think this is what it does mean.

Nevertheless, for this reason and perhaps for others, one has to be careful not to claim too dogmatically that Paul was disobeying God in going to Jerusalem.

On the other hand, I would insist that what Paul was prepared to do once he got to Jerusalem was unambiguously wrong. He may have been right in going up to the city. However, the leaders of the Jerusalem church proposed he go through the Jewish rites of purification and then offer a sacrifice for sin to demonstrate to the Jews that he was not opposed to Jewish laws and traditions. Paul agreed to do it, and he was in error for a number of reasons.

First, the idea of purification is wrong for Christians. We do not find anything in the New Testament about any rite of purification for Christians. What we do find in the New Testament is the command to confess our sins to God, which is quite a different thing. If we confess our sin to God pleading the blood of Jesus Christ, which has been shed for us, and when we ask forgiveness, we have the promise of God that “he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9). That is different from a purification rite.

Second, the rite also involved a sacrifice. It is referred to in Acts 21:26 as “an offering,” but it was not what we mean by “an offering.” When we say, “Let’s receive an offering,” we mean, “Let’s take a collection, give money.” It was an animal sacrifice, brought by the worshiper and handed to the priest. The worshiper confessed his sin over the head of the animal; then the animal was killed as a substitutionary sacrifice for the individual’s sins. It is almost inconceivable that Paul could have been prepared to do that. Yet he was.

We might plead that he did it with good motives. He loved the Jewish people, and he did not want a schism in the church between Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians. He wanted to hold the church together as well as show his love for Israel. But right motives do not make a wrong action right. They did not make this right.

What Paul should have done is what he had told the Galatians to do when they were faced with a similar but less serious problem. Legalizers from Jerusalem had come to the Galatian churches, saying that Gentiles could not be saved unless they kept the law of Moses. The focal point of the debate was circumcision. Paul argued in the Book of Galatians that if they were circumcised Christ would profit them nothing. He said, “Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery” (Gal. 5:1). Yet here Paul himself became burdened.

In my opinion, the great proof that Paul was wrong was that God, who is sovereign over the details of our lives, did not allow him to do it. It is good that God intervenes like this. Sometimes you and I act wrongly. We are prepared to do wrong things—perhaps with good motives, but quite often with bad motives—and God simply slams the door on us. He will not let us do it, because what we do matters to God, even if at the moment it does not seem to matter a great deal to us."


Source:
https://www.amazon.com/Acts-Expositional-James-Montgomery-Boice/dp/0801066336/
(Please take note that Boice appears to believe in Eternal Security because he uses words like trusting in the finished work of Christ, etc.; However, this is where I depart from the commentator. For I believe the Bible clearly teaches that salvation is conditional).
 
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