CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

Stephen Douglas · Aug 4, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Hi Doug, there is some truth in what you say. The promise are given however for those who seek and ask God to be their guide and teacher *JOHN 14:26; JOHN 16:13; JOHN 7:17. But this of course is all condtional as we turn away from men seek the one who is calling us through his Word *JOHN 8:31-36. It is true however that we will be continually learning God's Word. This is of course what it means to grow in grace and the difference between the milk and the meat.

God bless and thanks for sharing.

Why is it that some choose to seek and ask God to be their guide and teacher while others do not?

Doug

LoveGodsWord · Aug 4, 2019

Stephen Douglas said:
Why is it that some choose to seek and ask God to be their guide and teacher while others do not?

Doug

Good question Doug. Maybe it is lack of faith or many do not know God wants to be our teacher as we seek and ask his guidence through his Word. One thing I do believe is that God has his people in all the churches living up to all the knowledge he has revealed to them but the scriptures I believe teach that the hour is coming and now is that God is calling His people out from following man made traditions and teachings that lead us away from His Word back to the Word of God.

God bless

LoveGodsWord · Aug 4, 2019

GraceBro said:
I wonder how many people who believe they can lose their salvation have lost it in their estimation? And what did they do to get it back? It seems that only they are the ones that believe they are doing what is required by God in order to obtain or maintain this elusive salvation. Jesus said to be as perfect as your Heavenly Father (Matthew 5:48). How are they doing with this? If one can lose salvation, it means that Jesus' finished work on the cross was not enough and that our sins are still being counted against us despite scripture saying God is not counting our sins against us (2 Corinthians 5:19; Romans 4:8), that there is no longer any sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 10:17-18), and when Jesus returns it is to bring salvation to those waiting for Him not to deal with sin (Hebrews 9:28). Scripture also says that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness (Hebrews 9:22). Therefore, your confession booths, 1 John 1:9ing (taken out of context), short accounts, altar calls, etc., are all bloodless sacrifices God does not require or accept. If you can lose eternal life, it is not eternal. By continuing to make sin an issue we are trampling the Son of God underfoot (Hebrews 10:29) by effectively putting Him back on the cross. If our works of obedience play a role in our salvation then we must still be under the law and Paul was mistaken when He said we are not (Galatians 3:24-25). Furthermore, if there is no law then sin is not taken into account (Romans 5:13). And if sin is not taken into account because we are not under the law, what is it that causes us to lose salvation? And John must have been lying when he said: "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life (1 John 5:13)." You can never know you have eternal if you can lose it! But, hey, we can't have another endless thread on eternal security if our salvation is secure. We are still immature Christians drinking milk if we are continuing to debate eternal security. God can't grow us and mature us in the grace and knowledge of Himself if we are still uncertain about whether or not we are His children. No wonder the author of Hebrews said, "We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain, because you are dull of hearing. Although by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to reteach you the basic principles of God’s word. You need milk, not solid food! For everyone who lives on milk is still an infant, inexperienced in the message of righteousness (Hebrews 5:11-13)." Grace and Peace

The other question that may be worth asking brother is how many people think they have God's salvation but do not *MATTHEW 7:22-23? Many are called but few are chosen. In the last days many will have a form of Godliness but deny the power there of and did not know until it was too late that salvation is from sin not to continue in it *JOHN 8:31-36

GraceBro · Aug 4, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
The other question that may be worth asking brother is how many people think they have God's salvation but do not *MATTHEW 7:22-23? Many are called but few are chosen. In the last days many will have a form of Godliness but deny the power there of and did not know until it was too late that salvation is from sin not to continue in it *JOHN 8:31-36

That's between that person and God. Salvation is available to all, but I can only give a reason for the hope I have. Ultimately, God is the one who makes the decision. I believe I have eternal life and cannot lose it. Others don't have that hope. I can pray for them, ask for their prayers, and trust God to reveal the truth to us.
Grace and Peace

zoidar · Aug 4, 2019

redleghunter said:
Clement of Rome:

“Whereas it is the will of God, that all whom he loves should partake of repentance, and so not perish with the unbelieving and impenitent, he has established it by his almighty will.’ But if any of those whom God wills should partake of the grace of repentance, should afterwards perish, where is his almighty will? And how is this matter settled and established by such a will of his?” (Ep. 1, ad Cor. p. 20).

The reason I couldn't find this in Clement's letter is because it's not in Clement's letter. :doh:

"Another citation from Clement, in support of perseverance of the saints (the P doctrine), is given thus by Horton: “It is the will of God that all whom He loves should partake of repentance, and so not perish with the unbelieving and impenitent. He has established it by His almighty will. But if any of those whom God wills should partake of the grace of repentance, should afterwards perish, where is His almighty will? And how is this matter settled and established by such a will of His?”

I had a very difficult time trying to find the section from which this quote supposedly comes. The closest I saw is in chapter 8. Here Clement cites several OT texts where God declares his desire for wicked Israel to repent, especially using Isaiah 1. Then Clement says, “Desiring, therefore, that all His beloved should be partakers of repentance, He has, by His almighty will, established….” The text ends here; it does not say what God has established; the translation I used adds the words, “these declarations,” i.e., the OT quotations. The Greek text reads: pantas oun tous agapētous autou boulomenos metanoias metaschein estērizen to pantokratorikō boulēmati autou. The “quotation” as cited by Horton does not even come close to what the original is saying. To say that it supports “perseverance of the saints” is pure fantasy; it also ignores the context."

Did the Early Christian Fathers Teach Calvinism? | Jack Cottrell

LoveGodsWord · Aug 4, 2019

GraceBro said:
That's between that person and God. Salvation is available to all, but I can only give a reason for the hope I have. Ultimately, God is the one who makes the decision. I believe I have eternal life and cannot lose it. Others don't have that hope. I can pray for them, ask for their prayers, and trust God to reveal the truth to us.
Grace and Peace

How would one ask that question who thinks they are saved but are not? God has told us through his Word what his will is. If we know God's will and do not do what he asks are we following God or not?

redleghunter · Aug 4, 2019

Hazelelponi said:
Hello. Im going to respond, in the only way I know how. I think we all know scripture am I correct?

We know there are verses of warning, verses telling us to continue to grow, and verses of absolute assurance, and others of condemnation. Side by side we can make scripture appear to be contradictory, we can pick and choose the verses that most agree with our sensibilities or we can figure out how they fit together in perfect harmony.

I chose harmony - just so you know. There is a way this all goes together that leaves no question and no contradiction and no ignorance or setting aside of what we disagree with. Some of it we figure out as we are walking in Christ, but the very first thing we must realize is our own nature, and our desperate need of a Savior. Dead enemies of God is what we all were, prior to coming to Christ. Period. End of story - until God...

For anyone who wants to hear a good preaching and teaching on that is here:

When we are dead in sin Christ comes and gets us out of our condition... and of course this looks different for each of us. Some people come to Christ slow and seamlessly, others have a Damascus Road moment (me), and still others - well - I'm sure there's a third group.

The Bible claims assurance in salvation for His people, and I have that assurance. I have the guarantee of my salvation, the seal of the Holy Spirit and He confirms with my spirit that I belong to HIM..

Yet, what that never does in mean I can live in sin, or become slack. When I need correction I have it, when I need to know and believe without a doubt so I can move the mountains blocking the path I have that, when I need to be reeled in I have that..

In reformed churches that believe in OSAS we hear more about sin than in attendance at non-reformed churches. Which is kind of funny when you think about it, because this easy faith that everyone tells us we have simply doesn't exist. Walk into a reformed church you WILL hear about sin and the need to repent and grow and and learn in Christ.

But none of it matters or makes a difference, if you haven't met the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob first.

My lifestyle was the equivalent of what most people consider practically a saint before I was saved. I spent more of my day praying than most human beings, more time fasting, less time breaking the lists of laws and more time hoping to please the God of this universe only to fall flat and empty handed in recognition that the works of my hands were worthless.... I was still distant from God and couldn't say with honesty that I knew God..

Now, after salvation, I can say I know God to the limit of my ability and He is truly God.. for the first time in my life I am worshiping in Spirit and in Truth and it makes all the difference in the world.

But to get to here you have to desire to know God more than you desire your next breath, you have to be willing to let the whole world see your ignorance, your mistakes, your failures, you have to step out in a faith hoping in the end God will catch you - and when you do I promise you He will!

The Pastor showed us Paul's heart for the lost, willing to give up his very salvation for the lost, and I see myself as a sinner fallen short. A person who lost my first love, and I beg God to forgive me for my sin and lovelesses for my brothers and sisters who are lost and I beg God to give me more of HIS heart that I may do more, give more, be more of what HE desires so that I may Glorify HIS name..

Yet in all this assurance and sorrow for sin, I know that if I end up grabbing too much of this world or harbor some sin in my heart I can lose it all like Judas, and this causes me to pray more, to fast more, to love more to beg God for more of HIS Spirit and His power over sin... because I know where I desire to be standing for all of eternity, and that is before the Throne of God worshiping HIM, feeling HIS peace and love wash over me, as I give back to HIM all my love and worship that HE so richly deserves.

The narrow road which steps out in faith isn't easy, but it is possible through Christ... Gods Holy Spirit might sometimes tell us we are acting like Satan, just like Jesus said to Peter, or He might warn us not to love the things of this world.. but we have the assurance and the faith that these mountains we can move, because HE lives in us and in HIM there is no shame.. that He will keep us in HIS hand like HE kept Paul...

It all works together, all these verses of Scripture work out in our lives perfectly.. We check ourselves at the door, we surrender to HIM daily, consecrate our hearts to HIM morning noon and night.. and then we live..

we live as Christians knowing our Lord and Savior, knowing our sins and our failures, our need and our redemption. We aren't afraid, because our King is with us, in us, surrounding us.. so we live as is pleasing to HIM knowing we are held firmly in HIS Hand.

And if we don't, we were never once saved, and never in HIM at all.

Our actions are never causal to our salvation, Jesus' are. All we do is a result of that in love and its a walk we will walk for the rest of our lives. No one excuses sin... but people do misrepresent our beliefs and actions - to what end is unknown to me.

This is beautiful.

GraceBro · Aug 4, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
How would one ask that question who thinks they are saved but are not? God has told us through his Word what his will is. If we know God's will and do not do what he asks are we following God or not?

Well, what I see you saying is that if you don't believe somebody is saved what questions do you ask them to make yourself more comfortable in analyzing their salvation. This normally is the fruit of an overemphasis on somebody's behavior; i.e. are they behaving in ways I deem acceptable? Because at the core of your inquiry is the belief somebody can lose salvation, especially if they aren't behaving like yourself or believing the same way as you. With that said, the questions all of us need to ask of ourselves are, "What is salvation?" "What is the condition of man that Jesus is the provision for?" "What is a person's understanding of the Gospel?" But, the person asking the questions needs to know the answers themselves.

royal priest · Aug 4, 2019

Hazelelponi said:
Hello. Im going to respond, in the only way I know how. I think we all know scripture am I correct?

We know there are verses of warning, verses telling us to continue to grow, and verses of absolute assurance, and others of condemnation. Side by side we can make scripture appear to be contradictory, we can pick and choose the verses that most agree with our sensibilities or we can figure out how they fit together in perfect harmony.

I chose harmony - just so you know. There is a way this all goes together that leaves no question and no contradiction and no ignorance or setting aside of what we disagree with. Some of it we figure out as we are walking in Christ, but the very first thing we must realize is our own nature, and our desperate need of a Savior. Dead enemies of God is what we all were, prior to coming to Christ. Period. End of story - until God...

For anyone who wants to hear a good preaching and teaching on that is here:

When we are dead in sin Christ comes and gets us out of our condition... and of course this looks different for each of us. Some people come to Christ slow and seamlessly, others have a Damascus Road moment (me), and still others - well - I'm sure there's a third group.

The Bible claims assurance in salvation for His people, and I have that assurance. I have the guarantee of my salvation, the seal of the Holy Spirit and He confirms with my spirit that I belong to HIM..

Yet, what that never does in mean I can live in sin, or become slack. When I need correction I have it, when I need to know and believe without a doubt so I can move the mountains blocking the path I have that, when I need to be reeled in I have that..

In reformed churches that believe in OSAS we hear more about sin than in attendance at non-reformed churches. Which is kind of funny when you think about it, because this easy faith that everyone tells us we have simply doesn't exist. Walk into a reformed church you WILL hear about sin and the need to repent and grow and and learn in Christ.

But none of it matters or makes a difference, if you haven't met the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob first.

My lifestyle was the equivalent of what most people consider practically a saint before I was saved. I spent more of my day praying than most human beings, more time fasting, less time breaking the lists of laws and more time hoping to please the God of this universe only to fall flat and empty handed in recognition that the works of my hands were worthless.... I was still distant from God and couldn't say with honesty that I knew God..

Now, after salvation, I can say I know God to the limit of my ability and He is truly God.. for the first time in my life I am worshiping in Spirit and in Truth and it makes all the difference in the world.

But to get to here you have to desire to know God more than you desire your next breath, you have to be willing to let the whole world see your ignorance, your mistakes, your failures, you have to step out in a faith hoping in the end God will catch you - and when you do I promise you He will!

The Pastor showed us Paul's heart for the lost, willing to give up his very salvation for the lost, and I see myself as a sinner fallen short. A person who lost my first love, and I beg God to forgive me for my sin and lovelesses for my brothers and sisters who are lost and I beg God to give me more of HIS heart that I may do more, give more, be more of what HE desires so that I may Glorify HIS name..

Yet in all this assurance and sorrow for sin, I know that if I end up grabbing too much of this world or harbor some sin in my heart I can lose it all like Judas, and this causes me to pray more, to fast more, to love more to beg God for more of HIS Spirit and His power over sin... because I know where I desire to be standing for all of eternity, and that is before the Throne of God worshiping HIM, feeling HIS peace and love wash over me, as I give back to HIM all my love and worship that HE so richly deserves.

The narrow road which steps out in faith isn't easy, but it is possible through Christ... Gods Holy Spirit might sometimes tell us we are acting like Satan, just like Jesus said to Peter, or He might warn us not to love the things of this world.. but we have the assurance and the faith that these mountains we can move, because HE lives in us and in HIM there is no shame.. that He will keep us in HIS hand like HE kept Paul...

It all works together, all these verses of Scripture work out in our lives perfectly.. We check ourselves at the door, we surrender to HIM daily, consecrate our hearts to HIM morning noon and night.. and then we live..

we live as Christians knowing our Lord and Savior, knowing our sins and our failures, our need and our redemption. We aren't afraid, because our King is with us, in us, surrounding us.. so we live as is pleasing to HIM knowing we are held firmly in HIS Hand.

And if we don't, we were never once saved, and never in HIM at all.

Our actions are never causal to our salvation, Jesus' are. All we do is a result of that in love and its a walk we will walk for the rest of our lives. No one excuses sin... but people do misrepresent our beliefs and actions - to what end is unknown to me.

Amen sister! Our Shepherd will never leave nor forsake His sheep. He purchased them with His blood, causes them to hear His voice, and delivers them from every predator (including their biggest enemy, self)! All who do not follow Him are not of His sheep.

royal priest · Aug 4, 2019

zoidar said:
I believe basically every believer would say the same thing. Who would agree they are picking verses out of context?

People who believe the OP cannot say the following with hazeleponi's statement:

We aren't afraid, because our King is with us, in us, surrounding us.. so we live as is pleasing to HIM knowing we are held firmly in HIS Hand.

If a true believer can fall away, then there is nothing Jesus can do to keep them from falling. In their mind, Jesus is basically saying to them, "too bad, so sad." If Jesus cannot save them from themselves, then they have every reason to fear.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 4, 2019

royal priest said:
People who believe the OP cannot say the following with hazeleponi's statement:
If a true believer can fall away, then there is nothing Jesus can do to keep them from falling. In their mind, Jesus is basically saying to them, "too bad, so sad." If Jesus cannot save them from themselves, then they have every reason to fear.

I do not think this statement is true whatsoever. You do know brother that the scriptures in the OP are God's Word right? I believe that I can say with full assurance as the scriptures tell us that I have the hope of salvation today as I continue to believe and follow God's Word and that it is JESUS who works in me to save me from my sins and I have this gift now through faith as I trust and believe His Word. This is why the scriptures teach all through the OLD and NEW Testament that salvation is conditonal on believing and following God's Word *JOHN 8:31-36; HEBREWS 10:26-31; HEBREWS 6:4-8.

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

LoveGodsWord · Aug 4, 2019

GraceBro said:
Well, what I see you saying is that if you don't believe somebody is saved what questions do you ask them to make yourself more comfortable in analyzing their salvation. This normally is the fruit of an overemphasis on somebody's behavior; i.e. are they behaving in ways I deem acceptable? Because at the core of your inquiry is the belief somebody can lose salvation, especially if they aren't behaving like yourself or believing the same way as you. With that said, the questions all of us need to ask of ourselves are, "What is salvation?" "What is the condition of man that Jesus is the provision for?" "What is a person's understanding of the Gospel?" But, the person asking the questions needs to know the answers themselves.

Nope I am not saying that at all. I asked you the question if someone thinks they are saved but are not how are they going to know that they are not saved to begin with? I would imagine that no one would want to find out when it was too late to do anything about it as shown in MATTHEW 7:22-23 don't you?

royal priest · Aug 4, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
I do not think this statement is true whatsoever. You do know brother that the scriptures in the OP are God's Word right? I believe that I can say with full assurance as the scriptures tell us that I have the hope of salvation today as I continue to believe and follow God's Word and that it is JESUS who works in me to save me from my sins and I have this gift now through faith as I trust and believe His Word. This is why the scriptures teach all through the OLD and NEW Testament that salvation is conditonal on believing and following God's Word *JOHN 8:31-36; HEBREWS 10:26-31; HEBREWS 6:4-8.

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

You believe that Jesus' work in you depends on your faith. That means Jesus could potentially let go of you at any moment.

faithonly · Aug 4, 2019

Hammster said:
No

Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand; and we exult in hope of the glory of God. And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations, knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; and hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us. For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. For one will hardly die for a righteous man; though perhaps for the good man someone would dare even to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. And not only this, but we also exult in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.
— Romans 5:1-11

I am just a new Christian and struggling to try to live for God, but after reading some Scriptures and then some of the posts here, I am wondering if it is really true that once a Christian, then you are always a Christian, and the gift of eternal life can never be taken away from you. What a wonderful promise - I was never told that when I first became a Christian. I thought I had to work to keep my salvation; but now it feels like I can finally relax and not worry! How I live is not important and does not really matter - I know I had a real experience with God and was born again - that I know. And now I can rest, not worry, and still have fun - I was afraid I was going to have to give up my friends and fun to get to heaven.

royal priest · Aug 4, 2019

faithonly said:
I am just a new Christian and struggling to try to live for God, but after reading some Scriptures and then some of the posts here, I am wondering if it is really true that once a Christian, then you are always a Christian, and the gift of eternal life can never be taken away from you. What a wonderful promise - I was never told that when I first became a Christian. I thought I had to work to keep my salvation; but now it feels like I can finally relax and not worry! How I live is not important and does not really matter - I know I had a real experience with God and was born again - that I know. And now I can rest, not worry, and still have fun - I was afraid I was going to have to give up my friends and fun to get to heaven.

Luke 9:23-25
And Jesus said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will save it. For what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses or forfeits himself?"
Being born again means no longer living to please yourself, but to please God. If you aren't doing that, then you have no reason to believe you were saved to begin with.

faithonly · Aug 4, 2019

royal priest said:
Amen sister! Our Shepherd will never leave nor forsake His sheep. He purchased them with His blood, causes them to hear His voice, and delivers them from every predator (including their biggest enemy, self)! All who do not follow Him are not of His sheep.

I also like what you wrote earlier - "our actions are never causal to our salvation" This helps me know God will be with me and I will get to heaven.

royal priest · Aug 4, 2019

faithonly said:
I also like what you wrote earlier - "our actions are never causal to our salvation" This helps me know God will be with me and I will get to heaven.

The cause of our salvation is the work of Jesus Christ. Part of His work is giving us a new heart that loves God and seeks to please Him above all else. If we aren't doing that, then Christ isn't working in us and we have little reason to believe we are saved.

Gregory Thompson · Aug 4, 2019

Albion said:
That sounds more like a word lifted from some political campaign.

The Bible is simply FULL of predictions about awful, dreadful, events that lie ahead for those who are not the Lord's people.

No matter how we look at those verses, it is evident that we are being told something of great importance that cannot fail to make an impression on believers...and was meant to do just that.

I find the different layers of the scripture are for different stages of maturity for the believer, for some, fear is all that is possible, for others, there is love to eclipse it.

Hammster · Aug 4, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
I do not think this statement is true whatsoever. You do know brother that the scriptures in the OP are God's Word right? I believe that I can say with full assurance as the scriptures tell us that I have the hope of salvation today as I continue to believe and follow God's Word and that it is JESUS who works in me to save me from my sins and I have this gift now through faith as I trust and believe His Word. This is why the scriptures teach all through the OLD and NEW Testament that salvation is conditonal on believing and following God's Word *JOHN 8:31-36; HEBREWS 10:26-31; HEBREWS 6:4-8.

May God bless you as you seek him through His Word.

Why haven’t you fallen away?

iLearn · Aug 4, 2019

His student said:
Compared to the disciples, I am special. I have been sealed with Christ's Spirit and He abides in me and is my advocate.

Sounds like the guy who praises himself in Luke 18:11. "I am perfect and all". Well for me I don't feel special. I am just a worthless man in need of a saviour.

His student said:
No ones says that sins future are yet forgiven.

His student said:
We will repent of all sins in the future. That why there are so many tears shed at the Judgment Seat.

First you deny future sins are forgiven. Then you proceed to tell that on the day of judgement all unrepented sins are cast away as far as to the east as to the west. People just need to repent that on the day of judgement. So it means if I want to sleep with my neighbour's wife today it is allright because I can still repent that and all of my unconfessed sins at the judgement day. There is no need for me repent now while I am still living on this earth, right? Because I can repent that after I am resurrected, right? How convenient...

Thank you.

His student said:
It seem to me that you need to revisit what Christ did and didn't do at Calvary.

You seem to not understand the gospel properly.

Last I checked knowledge is not required for Salvation. Or have you discovered a new teaching?

But my understanding of how salvation works is very simple. God will complete the good work that He has begun in us, subject to us playing our full part, and nothing less will do. It is my Faith + my work, where 99% of the works are done by God (Faith), and my work is just 1%. Do I lean on my performance? yes I do, and I also lean on God that He is faithful in His promise to me.

CAN YOU LOSE YOUR SALVATION AND ETERNAL LIFE?

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