Question for Sabbatarians

klutedavid said:

The law kills.

Romans 7:9-11
I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died; and this commandment, which was to result in life, proved to result in death for me; for sin, taking an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me.

Paul was utterly dead because of the law in both the present and the past tense.

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Paul says "we uphold the law" (Romans 3:31) Do you also claim to uphold the law but unlike Paul do you teach against keeping Sabbath?

Mercy74 said:

Paul says "we uphold the law" (Romans 3:31) Do you also claim to uphold the law but unlike Paul do you teach against keeping Sabbath?

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Do you uphold 'the law' or are you talking about one of the ten commandments.

That verse (Romans 3:31) does not say what you think it says. The verse must be read in the context of chapter two of the letter to the Romans.

If you ignore the context that encases that verse (Romans 3:31) you will arrive at an alternate interpretation. Be very careful how you read the scripture.

Mercy74 said:

Paul is a Jew, circumcised on the 8th day born from the tribe of Benjamin, the son of a Pharisee. The law is spiritual; Paul says he is unspiritual sold as a slave to sin (Romans 7:14). The commandment was suppose to give life.

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We are all sinners and slaves to self and sin.

The law is spiritual and we cannot obey that law.

The law merely makes us aware that we need to be delivered from slavery to self and sin. We establish that the purpose of the whole law was to reveal how far we fall short.

The law introduces us to the need for Jesus and once we have Jesus, then the law becomes obsolete.

klutedavid said:

Do you uphold 'the law' or are you talking about one of the ten commandments.

That verse (Romans 3:31) does not say what you think it says. The verse must be read in the context of chapter two of the letter to the Romans.

If you ignore the context that encases that verse (Romans 3:31) you will arrive at an alternate interpretation. Be very careful how you read the scripture.

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Paul says "we uphold the law". How can you establish a righteous law in the earth when you refuse to obey it? The Sabbath is one of the ten commandments written by the finger of YHWH ; yet do you not fear the finger of YHWH? Work out your own soul salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). I have posted the scriptures and explained them in context, it is you that despise "clarity"; YHWH is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33). You have failed to receive the 10 commandments with fear and trembling like faithful Moses who prayed for those who disobeyed the voice of YHWH (Deuteronomy 9:19). Don't become like Esau who was rejected although he sought the blessing with tears (Hebrews 12:17). The fear of YHWH is the beginning of knowledge (Proverbs 9:10).

Mercy74 said:

Paul says "we uphold the law". How can you establish a righteous law in the earth when you refuse to obey it? The Sabbath is one of the ten commandments written by the finger of YHWH ; yet do you not fear the finger of YHWH? Work out your own soul salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). I have posted the scriptures and explained them in context, it is you that despise "clarity"; YHWH is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33). You have failed to receive the 10 commandments with fear and trembling like faithful Moses who prayed for those who disobeyed the voice of YHWH (Deuteronomy 9:19). Don't become like Esau who was rejected although he sought the blessing with tears (Hebrews 12:17). The fear of YHWH is the beginning of knowledge (Proverbs 9:10).

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You quote 1Cor14 so you must believe what Paul writes. He wrote in 2Cor3:7-11 that the 10 commandments WERE the ministry of death. All the 10 commandments could do WAS to point out sin, they could not save a soul. The KJV goes on to tell us that the 10 have been done away. How can anyone ignore or try to twist that fact?

The 10 commandments being part of the laws of the Sinai covenant ended along with all the laws of the covenant when the new covenant was ratified by Jesus blood at Calvary.

Another fact, the Sinai covenant WAS given to one nation, Israel. God didn't require any other nation to observe that covenant. Why would anyone believe that God would require any nation or people to observe the requirements of the Sinai covenant today?

Mercy74 said:

Paul says "we uphold the law". How can you establish a righteous law in the earth when you refuse to obey it? The Sabbath is one of the ten commandments written by the finger of YHWH ; yet do you not fear the finger of YHWH? Work out your own soul salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). I have posted the scriptures and explained them in context, it is you that despise "clarity"; YHWH is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33). You have failed to receive the 10 commandments with fear and trembling like faithful Moses who prayed for those who disobeyed the voice of YHWH (Deuteronomy 9:19). Don't become like Esau who was rejected although he sought the blessing with tears (Hebrews 12:17). The fear of YHWH is the beginning of knowledge (Proverbs 9:10).

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Paul said 'the law', Paul did not say 'the ten commandments', there is a distinct difference and meaning between these two terms.

Your have already begun to interpret the text and your altering what the text is actually saying.

Romans 3:31
Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

We establish the law!

Mercy74 said:

Paul says "we uphold the law". How can you establish a righteous law in the earth when you refuse to obey it? The Sabbath is one of the ten commandments written by the finger of YHWH ; yet do you not fear the finger of YHWH? Work out your own soul salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). I have posted the scriptures and explained them in context, it is you that despise "clarity"; YHWH is not the author of confusion (1 Corinthians 14:33). You have failed to receive the 10 commandments with fear and trembling like faithful Moses who prayed for those who disobeyed the voice of YHWH (Deuteronomy 9:19). Don't become like Esau who was rejected although he sought the blessing with tears (Hebrews 12:17). The fear of YHWH is the beginning of knowledge (Proverbs 9:10).

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Refuse to obey the law you say?

No one can obey the law and that is why Jesus gave His life on the cross.

The law told us we were unrighteous but your claiming that the law grants a righteousness through obedience to that law. This is a direct contradiction of what Paul stated.

Romans 3:20
Because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

The law informs you that you are a sinner and that is all the law can do, because the law is weak in the flesh.

klutedavid said:

Paul said 'the law', Paul did not say 'the ten commandments', there is a distinct difference and meaning between these two terms.

Your have already begun to interpret the text and your altering what the text is actually saying.

Romans 3:31
Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

We establish the law!

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Please read Romans 13:9 CEV. So are you telling me that if you steal you have not broken the law? You attempt to establish a "distinction" in a place where there is no difference. Within the law it says "thou shall not steal" you say this is not a command of YHWH; you bear false witness; you break another command of YHWH. Do you lie and say that you do not bear false witness? Do you believe Sabbath is a command of YHWH but not the law of YHWH? Law (definition) " a body of divine commandments". Please use a dictionary!

klutedavid said:

Refuse to obey the law you say?

No one can obey the law and that is why Jesus gave His life on the cross.

The law told us we were unrighteous but your claiming that the law grants a righteousness through obedience to that law. This is a direct contradiction of what Paul stated.

Romans 3:20
Because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

The law informs you that you are a sinner and that is all the law can do, because the law is weak in the flesh.

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The law says to have no other gods before YHWH; so the law requires you to have faith. This faith now saves you if you obey the law.

Mercy74 said:

Please read Romans 13:9 CEV. So are you telling me that if you steal you have not broken the law? You attempt to establish a "distinction" in a place where there is no difference. Within the law it says "thou shall not steal" you say this is not a command of YHWH; you bear false witness; you break another command of YHWH. Do you lie and say that you do not bear false witness? Do you believe Sabbath is a command of YHWH but not the law of YHWH? Law (definition) " a body of divine commandments". Please use a dictionary!

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I will add the extra context around the verse you quoted (Romans 13:8-10), which will dispel the idea that we are under the law.

Romans 13:8-10
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Loving others is all that is required from us and loving others fulfills all the law anyway.

The law of Christ is to love others as He has loved us and I cannot bear false witness.

1 John 3:22
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.

You have the wrong commandments.

1 John 3:23
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

By the way stealing is simply not loving others.

Mercy74 said:

The law says to have no other gods before YHWH; so the law requires you to have faith. This faith now saves you if you obey the law.

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We are not under the law (Acts 15) because we are saved by grace. Trying to obey the law is not what Christ commanded us to do.

1 John 3:23
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

The law of Christ.

klutedavid said:

I will add the extra context around the verse you quoted (Romans 13:8-10), which will dispel the idea that we are under the law.

Romans 13:8-10
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Loving others is all that is required from us and loving others fulfills all the law anyway.

The law of Christ is to love others as He has loved us and I cannot bear false witness.

1 John 3:22
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.

You have the wrong commandments.

1 John 3:23
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

By the way stealing is simply not loving others.

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You bear false witness when you say "you have the wrong commandments"; you also do not understand what "sum" mean. Sum means addition NOT subtraction; stop trying to "take away" the law because you steal and bear false witness if you do. Notice the commandments are cited in the verses that you post with respect to loving your neighbor (Romans 13:8-10). Love is the fulfillment of the law; so why do you seek to profane that which is made holy by YHWH; the Sabbath day? (Genesis 2:3). It is a sin to call anything that YHWH has made clean "common" like all other days (Acts 10:15). Did you use the dictionary to define the term law?

klutedavid said:

We are not under the law (Acts 15) because we are saved by grace. Trying to obey the law is not what Christ commanded us to do.

1 John 3:23
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

The law of Christ.

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Paul the son of a Pharisee already told you ""you are not under the law" but far worse "you are under grace". It is sad you do not know what Paul the son of a Pharisee means when he says " you have fallen away from grace". You seek to be JUSTIFIED by the law of Christ by dishonoring the law of YHWH. Your justification can not be accepted.

Mercy74 said:

Paul the son of a Pharisee already told you ""you are not under the law" but far worse "you are under grace". It is sad you do not know what Paul the son of a Pharisee means when he says " you have fallen away from grace". You seek to be JUSTIFIED by the law of Christ by dishonoring the law of YHWH. Your justification can not be accepted.

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Pure unadulterated bologna. Absolutely no other nation was given the laws of the Sinai covenant. Salvation was not part of that covenant yet you want to put yourself under it. Well, it won't get you any further than your nose. Abraham was saved by grace yet you thumb your nose at grace. I will let you in on a secret, if you make it to Heaven it will only be by the Grace of God.

Bob S said:

Pure unadulterated bologna. Absolutely no other nation was given the laws of the Sinai covenant. Salvation was not part of that covenant yet you want to put yourself under it. Well, it won't get you any further than your nose. Abraham was saved by grace yet you thumb your nose at grace. I will let you in on a secret, if you make it to Heaven it will only be by the Grace of God.

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There were civilized nations that knew stealing and murder was against the law.

Mercy74 said:

Paul the son of a Pharisee already told you ""you are not under the law" but far worse "you are under grace". It is sad you do not know what Paul the son of a Pharisee means when he says " you have fallen away from grace". You seek to be JUSTIFIED by the law of Christ by dishonoring the law of YHWH. Your justification can not be accepted.

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There is an observable difference in the way that we read and understand the scripture. May I ask you to explain the following paragraph by the apostle Paul, with specific reference to the phrase 'the law of Christ'.

1 Corinthians 9:19-21
For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

Mercy74 said:

There were civilized nations that knew stealing and murder was against the law.

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Yet other nations did not know YHWH.

These other nations knew nothing about coveting or idolatry, honoring parents or the Sabbath.

klutedavid said:

There is an observable difference in the way that we read and understand the scripture. May I ask you to explain the following paragraph by the apostle Paul, with specific reference to the phrase 'the law of Christ'.

1 Corinthians 9:19-21
For though I am free from all men, I have made myself a slave to all, so that I may win more. To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law.

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Good question! Did Paul the son of a Pharisee ever claim that he himself was under grace? Paul claimed to be under the LAW of Christ to those without the law; nevertheless he became as one under the LAW! Paul the son of a Pharisee "freely" preached the gospel without charge, so that he may share in it's blessings. We know the priest who worships at the altar "share" those "clean" things that have been offered. Those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple (1 Corinthians 9:13) . YHWH has commanded those who preach the gospel receive their living from the gospel.

klutedavid said:

I will add the extra context around the verse you quoted (Romans 13:8-10), which will dispel the idea that we are under the law.

Romans 13:8-10
Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Loving others is all that is required from us and loving others fulfills all the law anyway.

The law of Christ is to love others as He has loved us and I cannot bear false witness.

1 John 3:22
And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.

You have the wrong commandments.

1 John 3:23
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

By the way stealing is simply not loving others.

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Thank you...you have sum up All the Law in One command...

klutedavid said:

Yet other nations did not know YHWH.

These other nations knew nothing about coveting or idolatry, honoring parents or the Sabbath.

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Please read Romans 1:19-21. YHWH has made it plain to them since the creation of the world!