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Question for Sabbatarians

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by godenver1, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. godenver1

    godenver1 Christian

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    1. Why is the Sabbath the only one of the ten commandments that are said to be "throughout your generations", the usual phrase that indicates it was a temporary ceremonial law only for the Jews?
    From Bible.ca



    Christians are not under the Mosaic law (Galatians 5:18). The Ten Commandments, as given to Israel, were apart of the Old Testament convenant (Deuteronomy 4:13). We aren't under that covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6).

    If you wish to claim modern day believers must observe the Seventh day sabbath as the nation of Israel did, the Bible is not on your side and you teach false doctrine.
     
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  2. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    You are, free to follow whatever you want. We do not insist you follow the Sabbath--we state the reasons we do. There are many--and there have been many, many threads on the topic.

    In the first place--the Sabbath was not given only to the Jews-- it was instituted by Jesus at creation--Jesus created it as He created everything.
    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.


    Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
    Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
    Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

    The original Hebrew says cease, not rested.
    CEASE(V) (וַיִּשְׁבֹּת / wai'yish'bot
    Mar_2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

    Jesus did not say it was for the Jew. Besides, it had been God's intention for the Jews to carry their faith to all the world, they were not supposed to have become the exclusive club they became--when they left Egypt, they had a great multitude and all strangers were to keep it, and that is what the 4th commandment states.
    "in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:"

    God wrote the 10 on stone in His own hand, and placed those in the ark. The ark being a replica of the heavenly sanctuary. The Mosaic law, the sacrificial laws, He dictated to Moses and were written on parchment--or animal skins. They were kept outside the ark. The Mosaic laws pointed to Jesus as the sacrificial Lamb. Those are the ones that are a shadow of things to come--they were done away with at the cross.

    Col_2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
    Heb_8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

    The heavenly temple has the ark and it has the testimony in it.

    Rev_11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

    The Sabbath was never a shadow of things to come but pointed backwards to creation and the creator of all.


    The 10 are now written in the heart. It does not say, they are erased. Nor does it say there are 9.

    Jer_31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    Heb_8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
    Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    This is a quote from Duet--it does not mean there are only 2--it means they all are summed up in these 2. The 1st 4 are how we show our love to God, the last 6 are how we show our love for mankind.

    Deu_30:10 If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.

    All first Christians kept the Sabbath---this is way too long to post:
    Sabbath keepers throughout history

    There is not one single verse in the bible that states--"God has changed the 7th day Sabbath to Sunday in honor of His resurrection."
    Not one verse that states the disciples met on Sunday instead of the 7th day. They met a few times, it was not for the keeping of the sabbath. The one verse is actually a Saturday night meeting--the days started at sundown for the Jews.
    What God has written with His own hand stands unless God Himself says otherwise. No man can change what He has made holy and only He can make anything holy.
    The Sabbath will still be kept in the new earth--

    Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
    Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

    The Lord's day is not Sunday. There is only one day in the bible that God claims as His day--the 7th day Sabbath. You will find not one verse that says otherwise.

    As I said--you can do whatever you want--since Adam and Eve man has had a tendency to go their own way. Cain wanted to offer to God what he wanted, instead of what God said to do. If you want to keep Sunday--go right ahead--just make sure it is not because you find it fits your lifestyle better and keeping the 7th day Sabbath would be too difficult and mess up your lifestyle. It is a choice between what God has said, and what man has decided. Your choice.
     
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  3. Norbert L

    Norbert L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The difficulty is how does a person measure what is too difficult to do? 2 Kings 5:18-19 makes for a rather interesting precedent for a gentile and what restricts their way to worship. Still... what is too difficult?

    I think Christians need to allow for the choice of who to go to church and associate with while still maintaining the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ their LORD. 1 Corinthians 2:2
     
  4. gospels

    gospels Member

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    The perfect God who created the days and the universe, knows and controls everything -the sun, moon, lunar cycles, has revealed his calendar to his people. And modern day Christians (called people of God), much rather prefer to live under a man made calendar system, Gregorian or Julian, or whatever. This is what they are saying to God “I’m not under the calendar system you gave to Moses, i’m under the worldly calendar system”. They do not know what they are missing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2019
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  5. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    As I said---you answer to no one but to God---it's between the 2 of you. I've just given a few reasons for our side of the equation is all.
     
  6. Norbert L

    Norbert L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You also said "just make sure it is not because you find it fits your lifestyle better and keeping the 7th day Sabbath would be too difficult and mess up your lifestyle". I take it then that you have no other predefined way to measure how something is too difficult other than it's between a Christian and God no matter what their lifestyle relevant to the topic.
     
  7. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Only you would know what to consider, "too difficult." Many have given up highly lucrative jobs. Others feel that is too difficult. The question then becomes--how much are you willing to give up to follow what God says? God will be the judge, He alone knows the heart. Jesus gave up everything for us.
     
  8. Shimshon

    Shimshon Yeshua Defense Forces « צבא הגנה לישוע »

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    Amen, Salvation is from the Jews. Likewise, faith in Messiah comes from the Jews. The Jewish Messiah promised throughout all of the Hebrew scriptures brought salvation to the nation of Israel, and then offered it to the world. Through Jewish disciples. All of whom never became any less Jewish.

    Acts 21:20

    Not only did a large number of Jews believe in Yeshua they never stopped honoring the Torah. They never thought of themselves as any less Jewish or that they were in anyway part of a new religion. Some of Christianity have falsely taught that Yeshua canceled out the Torah.

    The main difference between the old covenant and the new covenant is not that the Torah would be done away with but that it would be written on peoples hearts. Ezekiel also speaks about this very same thing in Ezekiel 36:25-38.

    The new covenant does not do away with the law of God, nor the nation of Israel, and especially not the Jewish people. Jeremiah 31 is about Israel, every last word of it. Not that our salvation wouldn't be poured out upon the nations as well. But the new covenant is made with Israel, and is 100% about the restoration of Israel and our people. It states God will never abandon us but makes a new covenant because of our unfaithfulness. This covenant is said to write the Torah on our heats, which are cleaned and made new through the power of God and the forgiveness of our sin. The new covenant is a message of reconciliation and restoration of the nation of Israel and our people. It does not abandon our physicality nor God's Torah.

    32“But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days”
    —it is a declaration of Adonai
    “I will put My Torah within them.
    Yes, I will write it on their heart.
    I will be their God
    and they will be My people.


    What do you think the Spirit is given for? How is the Spirit ministering within your heart? Why was it placed there? Why is this where the Spirit of God resides? What is he doing, if not writing his ways upon it. And when did he reject his people and his commands for us so completely as to replace us with other nations?

    Yeshua commanded these born again Jewish apostles to offer salvation (Yeshua) to the world. With the prophetic promise that through redeeming the nations through Yeshua the nations would in turn become a helpmate for the redemption of Israel.

    13 But I am speaking to you who are Gentiles. Insofar as I am an emissary to the Gentiles, I spotlight my ministry 14 if somehow I might provoke to jealousy my own flesh and blood and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection leads to the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
    Romans 11:13-15


    Isaiah 2
    It will come to pass in the last days
    that the mountain of Adonai’s House
    will stand firm as head of the mountains
    and will be exalted above the hills.
    So all nations will flow to it.
    3 Then many peoples will go and say:
    “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Adonai,
    to the House of the God of Jacob!
    Then He will teach us His ways,
    and we will walk in His paths
    .”

    For Torah will go forth from Zion
    and the word of Adonai from Jerusalem.​


    The new covenant is from and for Israel, it's blessings have been offered to the nations. Namely, our Messiah and his gift of forgiveness of sins and eternal life. Not merely the laws given Moses, but the Law that God writes on your heart. Which fulfill all the laws given Moses. Not abolishing them but fulfilling them within and upon your heart, as promised from the beginning.

    In the last days Israel will be restored as a nation and Torah will flow from Jerusalem/Zion. All nations will flow to it.

    Only those who believe in the traditions of their church fathers preach and teach otherwise. It seem that replacement theology was written upon their hearts and this false doctrine is still grasping for air today.

    Love, mercy, hope, and forgiveness. Faith in the One who sets us free will always overcome the ones who twist the very words of God into a gun to use against his natural seeds. Our God's words are true, and everyone who speaks against them is a liar.

    2 Corinthians 5
    17 Therefore if anyone is in Messiah, he is a new creation. The old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Messiah and gave us the ministry of reconciliation. 19 That is, in Messiah God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them; and He has entrusted the message of reconciliation to us.​

    How does doing away with the Jewish people, our laws, our very physical existence, and replacing us with a people who deny not only our existence but God's promises for us? How is telling Jews they must never be Jews again or we will remain under the curse of God, yet you who believe your sins forgiven can not see it in your heart to have God heal our sins and restore our nation?

    Not until the nations embrace the Word of God and start to love the Jewish people and seek to help God restore us to our proper called place in the kingdom will you be able to see your own restoration.

    The restoration of the nations will not happen until you facilitate us Jews to proclaim blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. And believe me you, the replacement theology the church as been steeped in for the last 2000 yrs is not helping one bit. Yet God is faithful, this I know! Amen.

    ....steps down from the bimah....
     
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  9. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Well-Known Member

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    The Sabbath is a creation ordinance. God set the day aside as holy long before Moses arrived. In the Law, Moses appeals to creation when commanding the Sabbath saying that just as God worked (created) in six and rested and sanctified the seventh, we too must do likewise.
     
  10. Norbert L

    Norbert L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I would only agree that it's up to the individual that has to make the choice and God. However a problem occurs when other Christians who are not the one giving up their job, try to imply that a person will be more committed to Jesus by keeping the 7th day sabbath because He gave up everything for us. It's in sharp contrast to the advice Paul gives in 1 Corinthians 7:20

    Basically peer pressure doesn't stop with High School. So no, there is no golden rule that by keeping the 7th day holy rather than Sunday, a person will become a Christian in better standing with the Lord. 1 Corinthians 3:10-11
     
  11. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    It is further complicated by those who post that Sabbatarians are teaching a false doctrine when it is they that can no find a biblical mandate for Sunday. That is what the OP said.
    Sabbath keeping does not save you, Jesus alone does that---at the same time, breaking the commandments, can keep you out. Break one you break them all and no unrepentant sinner get's to be in the presence of god. Would Adam and Eve have had a better relationship with God had they simply obeyed what He said? Would Cain have had a better one if he had just done what God asked?---It was just a piece of fruit, and Cain gave the best he had, and it's just a day. The bottom line then becomes---what does God ask and will I do it?
     
  12. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is no reason to believe that God ever required anyone to observe the Sabbath except Israel. The covenant given to Israel which contained the Sabbath requirement was an "if" covenant. Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

    Israel continuously broke the requirements of the covenant. Before the covenant was severed God told Jeremiah that He would give Israel a new covenant and He did just that at Calvary. That is about it. All mankind is under the new covenant not the old one with its Sabbath laws.
     
  13. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Then you need to reread these posts. It's already been stated the Sabbath was created by Jesus at creation long before any Jew. Jesus also said the Sabbath was made for man --He did not say it was made for the Jew. The Jewish nation was supposed to be a light to the world and they were to spread their faith to all the world instead of they became an exclusive club. The law of God was for all who came to Him--not just for Jews. This has all been stated several times. The new covenant is written in the heart and it does not state there are 9.
     
  14. pasifika

    pasifika Member

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    Hello, please correct your statement...the Sabbath was created by God Not Jesus...Jesus of Nazareth was born a few thousands years later...

    What the law(including the seventh day Sabbath ) and Prophets testify was fulfilled in Christ...
    Yes..the seventh day Sabbath was given by God to the children of Israel when the 10 commandments was given in Exodus...

    there was no tribe of gentiles in the camp only the 12 tribes of Israel when Moses led them out of Egypt...

    Yes...the Sabbath was made for man...that why Jesus was called the Son of Man...the Law and the Prophets were written about Him...
     
  15. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Oh yes, it has been stated. I have read most all the statements. The fact is that nowhere in all of scripture is there any indication that any day was involved in the lives of those before the crossing of the Red Sea. The Genesis account of God resting doesn't involve Adam. Those who think Adam was resting are doing so by pure speculation. Anyone can state anything, but unless they can back their statements with facts then I certainly would not buy into it.

    But we all know it was.

    Yes, I have heard that many times and Israel was chastised for not being a beacon. The originol intent God had for Israel was to:
    5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

    6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

    Verse 5 tells us that they were to be a peculiar treasure above all people. In those verses it is telling us that God wanted them to be a special group, so it would seem like He didn't want them to go out and convert all the nations. If they would have then God wouldn't then have the peculiar treasure.

    Another thing, the Sinai covenant was not about Israel's salvation. It was about how God wanted them to live. It was their constitution so to speak. Nothing about the covenant could save. Salvation came just as it did for Abraham.


    And it doesn't state there are 10 either. It is very shallow thinking that there are only 10 laws that cover all the ways man can sin.
     
  16. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    I believe we are not under the letter of the law but Instead under the purpose for which it was written. When Jesus was confronted with violations of the law by the Pharisees He often corrected them by explaining the purpose for which it was written. The purpose being to love God with all your heart, soul, and mind and to love each other as Jesus loves us. All of the laws and demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments. So whether a person chooses to honor God on Saturday or Sunday or any or every day of the week is irrelevant so long as he does love and honor God. Also God’s original commandment was not to go to the temple and worship on Saturday but that we have 6 days in which to work and we must rest on the 7th day.
     
  17. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    It was created by Jesus:

    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    The Father and the Holy Spirit were all there--scripture says Jesus created everything.
     
  18. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    The Sabbath is not a creation it’s a commandment.
     
  19. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    The first 4 state how we show God our love for Him, the last 6 show our love to man.

    It matters to no one what day we keep---it matters only to God for He designated which day and no man can alter what God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit have all done. You are free to do as you please, or as God pleases. Jesus and the disciples all knew whoich day it is, and still is. No one is holding a gun to your head. Cain also felt he could worship God as he pleased and not as God said.

    It's only a day----and it was only a piece of fruit.
     
  20. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
    Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
     
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