Is the Sermon on the Mount for Today?

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,876
USA
✟580,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You are saying that Jesus will not return to earth to set up his Millennium?
Jesus taught against a physical kingdom. He said flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom. It comes without observation. His kingdom is not of this world. And only the born again can see it (here now).
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,141
1,372
73
Atlanta
✟77,342.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Jesus taught against a physical kingdom. He said flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom. It comes without observation. His kingdom is not of this world. And only the born again can see it (here now).
Confuse issues much? Terribly confused.

When I got saved the changes that took place took place without my observation. It took ten years to find out what had taken place in my life.,
 
Upvote 0

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,876
USA
✟580,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Confuse issues much? Terribly confused.

When I got saved the changes that took place took place without my observation. It took ten years to find out what had taken place in my life.,
Find one passage where Jesus teaches a physical millennium in the gospels, or Paul in the epistles if you can.
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,141
1,372
73
Atlanta
✟77,342.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Find one passage where Jesus teaches a physical millennium in the gospels, or Paul in the epistles if you can.


The fact that you do not know what they are after being saved for so many years? You are not a new believer. Right?

Well, what you requested indicates you have a lot a contradictory notions and Scriptural distortions in your arsenal that you would like to try on me.

Seen too much of that over the years to bother with that kind of thinking any longer... I am not missing anything. Its you who are missing something that only God can open the eyes of the believer to see...............

In the mean time. We are learning more about you.
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,141
1,372
73
Atlanta
✟77,342.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I answered this in the OP already re-posted for you. "This is an important question because Matthew calls the Sermon on the Mount the doctrine of Christ (Matthew 7:28). And John says any who do not have the doctrine of Christ do not have God (2 John 9)."
In the teaching of Christ is a rather simple teaching for the Christian.

You neglected the context in which John speaks of the teachings of Christ that is found in 2 John 7..

7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge
Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the
world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist."

That is why John went on to state what he did in verse 9. We need the context!

8 Watch out that you do not lose what we[a] have worked for,
but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs ahead
and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not
take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who
welcomes them shares in their wicked work.

John did not say... whoever does not continue in the "teachings" of Christ.

But, in the teaching of Christ!!!! In other words? Teaching who he really is!

That is what verse 7 was covering!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
11,844
1,311
sg
✟217,741.00
Country
Singapore
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The fact that you do not know what they are after being saved for so many years? You are not a new believer. Right?

Well, what you requested indicates you have a lot a contradictory notions and Scriptural distortions in your arsenal that you would like to try on me.

Seen too much of that over the years to bother with that kind of thinking any longer... I am not missing anything. Its you who are missing something that only God can open the eyes of the believer to see...............

In the mean time. We are learning more about you.

Yep, I realized Dave is probably a proponent of amillennialism

800px-Millennial_views.svg.png
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,141
1,372
73
Atlanta
✟77,342.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Yep, I realized Dave is probably a proponent of amillennialism


God must allow for such freedom for those who wish to err and do right now, before its too late. For, He needs to weed out and expose saved souls who it would be disastrous to grant Eternal power blessings that God wishes for all believers.

Those who can not be trusted with a little now? Will not be to be trusted with much authority and power in Eternity. They are now free to be proving now they could not handle it without hurting others, and ultimately themselves.

The following was just like we see here so many times!

"But in giving this instruction I do not praise you, because you come together not for the better but for the worse. In the first place, I hear
that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. No doubt there have to be factions among you to show which of you have God’s approval."

1 Cor 11:17-19​


Its because we are all going to be evaluated by the Lord, that He wants us now to feel free to be as our heart desires us to be. Be it for Divine good... or human good. There will be no hearing from the mouths of those who chose to live by what made them to feel proud... "I would have never done that!" Because, now they are doing it.
 
Upvote 0

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,876
USA
✟580,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
In the teaching of Christ is a rather simple teaching for the Christian.

You neglected the context in which John speaks of the teachings of Christ that is found in 2 John 7..

7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge
Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the
world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist."

That is why John went on to state what he did in verse 9. We need the context!

8 Watch out that you do not lose what we[a] have worked for,
but that you may be rewarded fully. 9 Anyone who runs ahead
and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not
take them into your house or welcome them. 11 Anyone who
welcomes them shares in their wicked work.

John did not say... whoever does not continue in the "teachings" of Christ.

But, in the teaching of Christ!!!! In other words? Teaching who he really is!

That is what verse 7 was covering!
This is part of John's discourse. You want the verse to say the "doctrine about Christ". But it says "the doctrine of Christ" = what Jesus taught.
 
Upvote 0

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,876
USA
✟580,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The fact that you do not know what they are after being saved for so many years? You are not a new believer. Right?

Well, what you requested indicates you have a lot a contradictory notions and Scriptural distortions in your arsenal that you would like to try on me.

Seen too much of that over the years to bother with that kind of thinking any longer... I am not missing anything. Its you who are missing something that only God can open the eyes of the believer to see...............

In the mean time. We are learning more about you.
Jesus said only the born again can see the kingdom. So this would mean Satan would deceive saints to attack saints when loosed after the 1000 years. And they would be in glorified bodies to boot. Because flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom.
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,141
1,372
73
Atlanta
✟77,342.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
This is part of John's discourse. You want the verse to say the "doctrine about Christ". But it says "the doctrine of Christ" = what Jesus taught.

John was teaching the doctrine of Christ. That Christ is both fully man and fully God. That is the doctrine of Christ. The hypostatic union.


Say what you want. The words appear a certain way for a reason. If could mean teachings. But its not in the plural.

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines
the commandments of men.
Mat 15:9 (NIV)

"They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely
human rules.’”
Mt 15:9 (KJV)


Play your game if you wish. You have so much to lose to admit error at this point in your life? But, its always better that you do.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,141
1,372
73
Atlanta
✟77,342.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
This is part of John's discourse. You want the verse to say the "doctrine about Christ". But it says "the doctrine of Christ" = what Jesus taught.
John was teaching about Christ. He was not teaching about something Christ said. Wake up, please?
 
Upvote 0

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,876
USA
✟580,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
John was teaching about Christ. He was not teaching about something Christ said. Wake up, please?
“If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions,” 1 Timothy 6:3–4 (NASB95)
 
Upvote 0

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,876
USA
✟580,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
John was teaching the doctrine of Christ. That Christ is both fully man and fully God. That is the doctrine of Christ. The hypostatic union.


Say what you want. The words appear a certain way for a reason. If could mean teachings. But its not in the plural.

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines
the commandments of men.
Mat 15:9 (NIV)

"They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely
human rules.’”
Mt 15:9 (KJV)


Play your game if you wish. You have so much to lose to admit error at this point in your life? But, its always better that you do.
You can make it say anything you like. But it centers of the teaching of Christ and not the teachings about Christ.

“Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.” 2 John 9 (NASB95)

Is Jesus the Son OF God or the Son About God?
 
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,141
1,372
73
Atlanta
✟77,342.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
“If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions,” 1 Timothy 6:3–4 (NASB95)
Now, that was a doctrine of Paul about the Lord Jesus Christ.

Who is disagreeing with the Words of Our Lord Jesus Christ?

Paul received many direct revelations from the seated Lord in Heaven. You are still looking at the Jesus who walked as a rabbi whom Paul said we are to no longer know after the flesh.

"Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh;
even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now
we know Him in this way no longer."
2 Cor 5:16

Paul taught many things that Jesus never could teach while one earth being as a man. Paul taught things that came from to him from the glorified Jesus in Heaven.

"Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things
passed away; behold, new things have come."


.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Guojing
Upvote 0

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,876
USA
✟580,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Now, that was a doctrine of Paul about the Lord Jesus Christ.

Who is disagreeing with the Words of Our Lord Jesus Christ?

Paul received many direct revelations from the seated Lord in Heaven. You are still looking at the Jesus who walked as a rabbi whom Paul said we are to no longer know after the flesh.

"Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh;
even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now
we know Him in this way no longer."
2 Cor 5:16

Paul taught many things that Jesus never could teach while one earth being as a man. Paul taught things that came from to him from the glorified Jesus in Heaven.

"Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old things
passed away; behold, new things have come."


.
That's OK. But "doctrine OF Christ" = what he taught. Just as "Son OF God" means what it says. Not Son about God.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,141
1,372
73
Atlanta
✟77,342.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
That's OK. But "doctrine OF Christ" = what he taught. Just as "Son OF God" means what it says. Not Son about God.

My pastor taught categorically. He had thousands of doctrines he taught in his lifetime. I know how the word is used in theology.

Few examples.

The doctrine of bitterness.
The doctrine of baptisms.
The doctrine of emotion vs thinking.
The doctrine of election.
The doctrine of mental attitude sins...
The doctrine of Christ.

etc...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0

GenemZ

Well-Known Member
Mar 1, 2004
22,141
1,372
73
Atlanta
✟77,342.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
It's most important with eternal consequences for those who reject it.


Those who reject Jesus Christ as He is will suffer eternal consequences.

That is what John was dealing with. Can you not read what the context was about???

7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge
Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world.
Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
" 2 Jn 2:7​

That was what John was dealing with in the context. Deniers that Jesus was the Christ come in the flesh.


8 Watch out that you do not lose what we have worked for, but that you
may be rewarded fully.
9 Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue
in the doctrine of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the
doctrine has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you
and does not bring this doctrine, do not take them into your house
or welcome them."
2 Jn 2:8-10

John was talking about a teaching about Jesus being the Christ, and a warning about those who denied it.



Grace and peace...
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

jerry kelso

Food For Thought
Mar 13, 2013
4,845
238
✟104,142.00
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
Is the Sermon on the Mount for Today?


This is an important question because Matthew calls the Sermon on the Mount the doctrine of Christ (Matthew 7:28). And John says any who do not have the doctrine of Christ do not have God (2 John 9).

So how do we live the Sermon on the Mount today? In my experience, I gave up my career, skills and education to “seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness” Matthew 6:24-34. And experienced God’s providence over my lifetime just as he promised. Enjoying all that people spend their life looking for, generously given to me while not looking for them. So it puzzles me when Churches host “College and Career Days” helping their young in many cases, to immerse themselves in the ways of the world instead of in Christ.

I also shunned Military service and registered as a Conscientious Objector. This closed many doors of opportunity and brought family ridicule. But living a life of nonviolence according to the Sermon also meant God would provide all the gentiles seek after as they kill and bludgeon their way up the ladder. I had a boss who marveled about my lack of concern for money.

I know the Dispensationalists believe the Sermon is not for today. But this makes me think of the danger they are in if John is right about the doctrine of Christ.

davel,

1. Matthew 7:28 was Christ earthly ministry which was under the Mosaic Law Galatians 4:4.
2 John 1:9 was New Covenant 1 John 1:1-3; 2:5-6; 2 John 1:5-6.
Jesus said in John 13:34; A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another as I have loved you. This was not under the KoH and the KoG message to the nation of Israel Matthew 10:6-7.
This was spoken to the disciples after the rejection of the nation Matthew 23:37-39.
Jesus was preparing his disciples for the soon coming New Covenant of the Church age Matthew 16:18.

3. The whole Bible is for all Christians today in the proper perspective according to the historical and dispensation always context.

4. The Jews were backslidden and trodden down under the foot of men because of losing their savor as salt of the earth Matthew 5:13.
Jesus said the gates of hell shall never prevail against the church so this was not a message to the church historically.
The Sermon on the Mount Jews had to repent Matthew 5:4.
The Jews had a specific blessing and cursing system that the church does not have because the curse has been lifted Galatians 3:13.
It was about the KoH Matthew 5:5 Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth. This was about the Abrahamic Covenant and the Davidic Covenant that they were promised Luke 1:69-75.
They had to do these things in order to be blessed.
New Covenant believers are to be peacemakers and pure in hear etc., but because of Christ finished work not trying to work up to a code of ethics. That is not a slam against the law of Moses but because we have a New Covenant built on better promises Hebrews 8:6-7.
Jesus teachings to the Jewish nation were do, do, do and the New Covenant is what he did, what he did, what he did.

5. Moral law and ethics were before the law but most of their knowledge came from their conscience. The law was to bring Israel to Christ and be justified by faith Galatians 3:24.
The point is to understand the different context according to the moral law and for us learning the better way built on better promises according to the New Covenant.
It helps to learn why God dealt in gradual revelation of the redemption plan according to the covenants and their dispensations. Jerry Kelso
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0