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Featured Is the Sermon on the Mount for Today?

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Dave L, Jul 4, 2019.

  1. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Is the Sermon on the Mount for Today?


    This is an important question because Matthew calls the Sermon on the Mount the doctrine of Christ (Matthew 7:28). And John says any who do not have the doctrine of Christ do not have God (2 John 9).

    So how do we live the Sermon on the Mount today? In my experience, I gave up my career, skills and education to “seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness” Matthew 6:24-34. And experienced God’s providence over my lifetime just as he promised. Enjoying all that people spend their life looking for, generously given to me while not looking for them. So it puzzles me when Churches host “College and Career Days” helping their young in many cases, to immerse themselves in the ways of the world instead of in Christ.

    I also shunned Military service and registered as a Conscientious Objector. This closed many doors of opportunity and brought family ridicule. But living a life of nonviolence according to the Sermon also meant God would provide all the gentiles seek after as they kill and bludgeon their way up the ladder. I had a boss who marveled about my lack of concern for money.

    I know the Dispensationalists believe the Sermon is not for today. But this makes me think of the danger they are in if John is right about the doctrine of Christ.
     
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  2. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Seriously?
     
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  3. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is Scofield's position in his bible and the mindset of Dispies I've been around..
     
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  4. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    Wow, that would explain a lot. I used to joke that certain people must've tore pages out of their bible, but maybe that is the case.
     
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  5. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    Like folks tear out the first 5 chapters of Acts...
     
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  6. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    Speak clearly and to the point, so what are you saying when you say

    This is an important question because Matthew calls the Sermon on the Mount the doctrine of Christ (Matthew 7:28). And John says any who do not have the doctrine of Christ do not have God (2 John 9).
    I know the Dispensationalists believe the Sermon is not for today. But this makes me think of the danger they are in if John is right about the doctrine of Christ.


    Are you saying that a person does not have eternal life and are saved and going to heaven because they do not have the doctrine of Christ.

    If so, you think the person who also wrote the Gospel of John and states many times in the Gospel of John. That to receive eternal life a person believes that Jesus is the promised Messiah and trust in Jesus for eternal life and list no other condition for a person to do to receive eternal life.

    Now is stating that later in another book 2 John that John is writing to the elect lady and her children. That now John is changing what a person must do to have eternal life.
     
  7. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If we consider John and Matthew, there is a good chance many are deceived thinking they are saved when they are not.
     
  8. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member

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    1.) To answer your question, yes. The Sermon on the Mount is for today as it is written:

    Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

    That said, I'm not sure exactly what you mean "doctrine of Christ". No where does the Bible call the sermon on the Mount the doctrine of Christ.

    The doctrine of Christ is His life, death, and resurrection - the whole, not only one sermon He gave. The fact the Savior came, and everything surrounding these facts and what that means to us and how it all applies to scripture and to us - that's the doctrine of Christ.

    The passages you quoted support what I've just said, which makes what your saying in the OP very confusing to me - although I'm sure there's some kind of point your trying to make perhaps that I'm not understanding.

    As far as seeking God's Face, that relationship with HIM, of course that is the essential part of Christianity that cannot be missed. I was actually remarking on that earlier on forum, however, I don't think that means we have no need to attend college or look to doing what is necessary for our futures. God Himself may open doors for a person to have a career, or allow others to guide a young person into a career path.

    What your suggesting is to sit in front of a plate of food and starve to death because your waiting on God to stop your hunger. God doesn't expect us to be devoid of sense, or lack the basic drive to make sure we have the means for our survival.

    It just means our first and highest priority is God, and that relationship with God. That's what matters. Everything else is secondary, worthless in comparison. But that doesnt mean stop in your tracks and never eat again because "God will provide". He provides, but it us still to us to cook the food and put the spoon to our lips.

    Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and strength, is just that. But it's not to the exclusion of all else, it just means priorities is God first, and God most. If God tells you to preach to this woman, then do it with joy and exuberance even if you'll be late to work.

    but it doesn't mean when your done not to go to your job. Even Paul often worked for his food... we have a body to care for, and it's wrong of us to burden others with our upkeep because we can't be bothered.

    There is always a balance, and there is such a thing as going too far in zealotry. God gave us also reason, I'm fairly certain it wasn't because He didn't expect us to use that reason..but rather, use our reason to also bring Glory to God.

    I also disagree that non-violence is a command for everyone, as the Bible says for everything there is a season and a time - but since there is so much in your OP to address and not just one topic, I'll leave that aside.
     
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  9. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    This is an important question because Matthew calls the Sermon on the Mount the doctrine of Christ (Matthew 7:28). And John says any who do not have the doctrine of Christ do not have God (2 John 9). Some translations say "teaching" = doctrine of Christ.

    You are missing the point on the rest. Think about it in view of the rest of scripture.
     
  10. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Indeed. I have heard Dispy preachers call it the “Culmination of the Law of Moses.” Meaning it is irrelevant in the New Covenant era.

    In the words of MASH’s Col Potter: “Horse Hockey!!!”
     
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  11. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    Doctrine is just a fancy theological way to say “teaching.”
     
  12. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member

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    well, The Sermon on the Mount is a "teaching" (accurately translated)

    When we speak of a doctrine, we don't look at one small teaching, but rather trhe whole. In the case of Christ, that's everything involving His life, death, and resurrection.

    If you see in 2 John, if you read in context its talking about some people who said Jesus wasn't real, didn't live, die or ressurect from the dead. 2 John 1:7

    I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

    We can easily see then, that the entire doctrine surrounding the Messiah and the truth and reality of it is what is being spoken of when the doctrine of Christ is mentioned, and not one sermon.
     
  13. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Use scripture to define scripture. It works better this way.
     
  14. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member

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    I did..
     
  15. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    You are still being vague, "consider what", that if a person does not have the doctrine of Christ then they are not saved, Again is that what you are saying.
     
  16. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I think it is more if they reject the truth after hearing it they probably are not saved.
     
  17. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member

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    So are you really trying to say that if we believe that its belief in the life, death, and ressurection of Christ and all that entails and means in accordance with scripture that saves, and not your version of how to understand the Sermon on the Mount we are "maybe" unsaved and hell bound?
     
  18. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The Sermon is the means of following Christ. It = NT ethics for the believer.
     
  19. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member

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    Love is the means of following Christ and the ethics of the believer.
     
  20. d taylor

    d taylor Well-Known Member

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    Reject what truth again you are not stating your thought.

    The Bible states either a person has believed in the promised Messiah for eternal life or they have not.

    True there are many false or fakers out there. But are you saying you are judging that these false believers are weeded out or exposed because they do not have the doctrine of Christ.
     
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