LDS Damnation for Refusal to Become Mormon

Peter1000 said:

Well, BTW so does the Bible.

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No, it does not--the other gods mentioned are pagan gods, which are no gods at all.

Exo_23:13 And in all things that I have said unto you be circumspect: and make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth.
Jdg_10:13 Yet ye have forsaken me, and served other gods: wherefore I will deliver you no more.
Isa_37:19 And have cast their gods into the fire: for they were no gods, but the work of men's hands, wood and stone: therefore they have destroyed them.
Jer_2:11 Hath a nation changed their gods, which are yet no gods? but my people have changed their glory for that which doth not profit.
Jer_16:20 Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they are no gods?
Act_19:26 Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands:
Gal_4:8 Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods.


Isa_44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
sa_44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Isa_45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
Isa_45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
Isa_45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Isa_47:8 Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me; I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children:

It can't get any clearer---There is no God other than God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit--one God--no other, anywhere else. He is the God of the universe--to all the worlds.

Peter1000 said:

Again, Phoebe Ann, you have quoted us wrongly. You do pretty good when you cut and paste a leader, but when you go out there with your own words, you don't represent us well.

Yes, you must accept JS, but in our church we know that we can not earn our way to heaven. We know it is by the grace of Jesus that we have eternal life, but we don't sit around, counting our grace blessing, we are engaged in the work of the Lord too, and we do that work until we die, and we look forward to eternal life, and doing the work of the Lord throughout eternity. It is a never ending work. It is a never ending giving of grace. So get it right before you tell people what we believe in your own words.

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“I wish to declare I have always an in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods.”

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v. 6, p. 306

“In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it.”

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v. 6, pp. 307, 308

“If we should take a million of worlds like this and number their particles, we should find that there are more Gods than there are particles of matter in those worlds.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 345, February 18, 1855

“Each God, through his wife or wives, raises up a numerous family of sons and daughters.... [E]ach father and mother will be in a condition to multiply forever. As soon as each God has begotten many millions of male and female spirits... he, in connection with his sons, organizes a new world... where he sends both the male and female spirits to inhabit tabernacles of flesh and bones.... The inhabitants of each world are required to reverence, adore, and worship their own personal father who dwells in the Heaven which they formerly inhabited.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, v. 1, p. 37

“Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods, and become associated with the highest intelligencies [sic] that dwell in eternity.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 160, September 2, 1860

"New light is occasionally bursted into our minds, of the sacred scriptures, for which I am truly thankful. We shall by and by learn that we were with God in another world, before the foundation of the world, and had our agency; that we came into this world and have our agency, in order that we may prepare ourselves for a kingdom of glory; become archangels, even the sons of God where the man is neither without the woman nor the woman without the man in the Lord: A consummation of glory, and happiness, and perfection so greatly to be wished, that I would not miss of it for the fame of ten worlds."

- W.W. Phelps, Latter-day Saint Messenger and Advocate, v. 1, no. 9, p. 130, June 1835

"I will preach on the plurality of Gods.
"Our text says, "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and His Father." * * * My object was to preach the scriptures, and preach the doctrine they contain, there being a God above, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. * * *
"Eloheim is from the word Eloi, God, in the singular number; and by adding the word heim, it renders it Gods. It read first, "In the beginning the head of the Gods brought forth the Gods," or, as others have translated it, "The head of the Gods called the Gods together." * * *
"The head God organized the heavens and the earth. In the beginning the heads of the Gods organized the heavens and the earth. * * * The head one of the Gods said, Let us make a man in our own image. I once asked a learned Jew, "If the Hebrew language compels us to render all words ending in heim in the plural, why not render the first Eloheim plural?" He replied, "That is the rule with few exceptions; but in this case it would ruin the Bible." He acknowledged I was right. * * *
"In the very beginning the Bible shows there is a plurality of Gods beyond the power of refutation. It is a great subject I am dwelling on. The word Eloheim ought to be in the plural all the way through---Gods. The heads of the Gods appointed one God for us; and when you take that view of the subject, it sets one free to see all the beauty, holiness and perfections of the Gods."

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 370-372, June 16, 1844

"Women are queens and priestesses but not gods. The Godhead, the 'Presidency of Heaven,' is a presidency of three male deities, similar to a stake presidency whose members each have wives who are responsible for domestic religious education but not ecclesiastical functions."

- Rodney Turner, retired BYU religion professor, Sunstone Panel Discussion, September 7, 1991.

“We don't hear about Heavenly Mother because she is only one of many wives of god.”

- Sister Maxine Hanks, Women and Authority, Ch.11, p.251

mmksparbud said:

“I wish to declare I have always an in all congregations when I have preached on the subject of Deity, it has been the plurality of Gods.”

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v. 6, p. 306

“In the beginning, the head of the Gods called a council of the Gods; and they came together and concocted a plan to create the world and people it.”

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v. 6, pp. 307, 308

“If we should take a million of worlds like this and number their particles, we should find that there are more Gods than there are particles of matter in those worlds.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, v. 2, p. 345, February 18, 1855

“Each God, through his wife or wives, raises up a numerous family of sons and daughters.... [E]ach father and mother will be in a condition to multiply forever. As soon as each God has begotten many millions of male and female spirits... he, in connection with his sons, organizes a new world... where he sends both the male and female spirits to inhabit tabernacles of flesh and bones.... The inhabitants of each world are required to reverence, adore, and worship their own personal father who dwells in the Heaven which they formerly inhabited.”

- Apostle Orson Pratt, The Seer, v. 1, p. 37

“Intelligent beings are organized to become Gods, even the sons of God, to dwell in the presence of the Gods, and become associated with the highest intelligencies [sic] that dwell in eternity.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 160, September 2, 1860

"New light is occasionally bursted into our minds, of the sacred scriptures, for which I am truly thankful. We shall by and by learn that we were with God in another world, before the foundation of the world, and had our agency; that we came into this world and have our agency, in order that we may prepare ourselves for a kingdom of glory; become archangels, even the sons of God where the man is neither without the woman nor the woman without the man in the Lord: A consummation of glory, and happiness, and perfection so greatly to be wished, that I would not miss of it for the fame of ten worlds."

- W.W. Phelps, Latter-day Saint Messenger and Advocate, v. 1, no. 9, p. 130, June 1835

"I will preach on the plurality of Gods.
"Our text says, "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and His Father." * * * My object was to preach the scriptures, and preach the doctrine they contain, there being a God above, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. * * *
"Eloheim is from the word Eloi, God, in the singular number; and by adding the word heim, it renders it Gods. It read first, "In the beginning the head of the Gods brought forth the Gods," or, as others have translated it, "The head of the Gods called the Gods together." * * *
"The head God organized the heavens and the earth. In the beginning the heads of the Gods organized the heavens and the earth. * * * The head one of the Gods said, Let us make a man in our own image. I once asked a learned Jew, "If the Hebrew language compels us to render all words ending in heim in the plural, why not render the first Eloheim plural?" He replied, "That is the rule with few exceptions; but in this case it would ruin the Bible." He acknowledged I was right. * * *
"In the very beginning the Bible shows there is a plurality of Gods beyond the power of refutation. It is a great subject I am dwelling on. The word Eloheim ought to be in the plural all the way through---Gods. The heads of the Gods appointed one God for us; and when you take that view of the subject, it sets one free to see all the beauty, holiness and perfections of the Gods."

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp. 370-372, June 16, 1844

"Women are queens and priestesses but not gods. The Godhead, the 'Presidency of Heaven,' is a presidency of three male deities, similar to a stake presidency whose members each have wives who are responsible for domestic religious education but not ecclesiastical functions."

- Rodney Turner, retired BYU religion professor, Sunstone Panel Discussion, September 7, 1991.

“We don't hear about Heavenly Mother because she is only one of many wives of god.”

- Sister Maxine Hanks, Women and Authority, Ch.11, p.251

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God is plural:

(New Testament | John 14:23)

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

They are one in purpose:

(New Testament | John 17:21)

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

(New Testament | Ephesians 4:13)

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 1:10)

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

He is the way said:

God is plural:

(New Testament | John 14:23)

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

They are one in purpose:

(New Testament | John 17:21)

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

(New Testament | Ephesians 4:13)

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 1:10)

10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

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What has your response have to do with what your prophets have said? Father, Son and Holy Ghost---no other gods.

Phoebe Ann said:

Please be specific and tell me what I have quoted "wrongly." Don't just throw out accusations. Thank you.

If you don't believe or can't trust your leaders, why are you in that church? If truth changes at the whim of a prophet, you know that you aren't led by God.

I was told that LDS should and do believe the Doctrine and Covenants is scripture.

Doctrine and Covenants 130
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.
Doctrine and Covenants 130

Obedience is a requirement for ALL blessings. Only those spirits who obeyed in pre-mortality could come to earth to gain the physical bodies that are necessary (per Mormonism) to work towards eternal life. Are there laws that you are permitted to disobey and yet receive the blessing associated with obedience to that law?

"Reserved to come forth in these last days and labor for our Father and His Son are some of the most valiant and noble of our Father's sons and daughters. Their valiance and nobility were demonstrated in the pre-earth struggle with Satan. . . .

". . . You are those who chose good over evil and who exhibited 'exceedingly great faith' and 'good works.' And because of your personal history, you were entrusted to come to the earth in these last days to do again what you did before—to once again choose good over evil, exercise exceedingly great faith, and perform good works—and to do so in behalf of the kingdom of God on the earth and your fellowman!"
James J. Hamula, "Winning the War against Evil," Ensign, Nov. 2008, 50–51

Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25
23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.
2 Nephi 25

"Because of what He accomplished by His atoning sacrifice, Jesus Christ has the power to prescribe the conditions we must fulfill to qualify for the blessings of His Atonement. That is why we have commandments and ordinances. That is why we make covenants. That is how we qualify for the promised blessings. They all come through the mercy and grace of the Holy One of Israel, “after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23)."
Dallin H. Oaks, “Two Lines of Communication” (October 2010 General Conference)

"Many people think they need only confess that Jesus is the Christ and then they are saved by grace alone. We cannot be saved by grace alone, 'for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.' "
James E. Faust, “The Atonement: Our Greatest Hope” (October 2001 General Conference)



Testifying in the name of Christ, doesn't make Mormonism true. Neither does accusing me of quoting "wrongly." Per Mormonism salvation requires the atonement which only provides immortality; the atonement doesn't save anyone unless that person accesses the atonement by obedience to the laws and ordinances of Mormonism.


"The Individual Effect of the Atonement makes it possible for any and every soul to obtain absolution from the effect of personal sins, through the mediation of Christ; but such saving intercession is to be invoked by individual effort as manifested through faith, repentance, and continued works of righteousness....The blessing of redemption from individual sins, while open for all to attain, is nevertheless conditioned on individual effort."
- James Talmage, "A Study of the Articles of Faith" by (p. 89)

“The blood of Christ was shed as a free gift of wondrous grace, but the Saints are cleansed by the blood after they keep the commandments.”
Sermons and Writings of Bruce R. McConkie, p.77

"The most fundamental purpose of your being on earth . . . is to prove yourself obedient to the commandments of the Lord and thereby grow in understanding, capacity, and every worthy trait. It is to receive every required ordinance and to make and keep every needed covenant. It is to form and nourish a family. This experience includes having periods of trial and happiness, with the objective of returning triumphantly, having met well the challenges and opportunities of mortal life to receive the glorious blessings promised for such obedience...
Richard G. Scott, "Truth Restored," Ensign, Nov. 2005, 78-79

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If you are trying to prove that we receive grace through works it is not working. No amount of works can bring about salvation. We know that we would all be lost without the atonement:

(Book of Mormon | Jacob 7:12)

12 And this is not all—it has been made manifest unto me, for I have heard and seen; and it also has been made manifest unto me by the power of the Holy Ghost; wherefore, I know if there should be no atonement made all mankind must be lost.

(Book of Mormon | Alma 34:8 - 10)

8 And now, behold, I will testify unto you of myself that these things are true. Behold, I say unto you, that I do know that Christ shall come among the children of men, to take upon him the transgressions of his people, and that he shall atone for the sins of the world; for the Lord God hath spoken it.
9 For it is expedient that an atonement should be made; for according to the great plan of the Eternal God there must be an atonement made, or else all mankind must unavoidably perish; yea, all are hardened; yea, all are fallen and are lost, and must perish except it be through the atonement which it is expedient should be made.
10 For it is expedient that there should be a great and last sacrifice; yea, not a sacrifice of man, neither of beast, neither of any manner of fowl; for it shall not be a human sacrifice; but it must be an infinite and eternal sacrifice.

I also know that without living faith with works does save, but dead faith without works will not save anyone. We are not saved by works, neither are we saved without works. Those who LOVE Jesus Christ will keep the commandments and do His works:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:13 - 14)

13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

The Bible is full of blessings predicated on obedience. I don't see how anyone could possibly not see that. We become kind by being kind. We become LOVING by being LOVING. We become charitable by being charitable. We become righteous by being righteous (keeping the commandments). We become meek by being meek. We LOVE our neighbor by helping those in need. We LOVE God by........
(New Testament | Matthew 25:35 - 40)

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

(New Testament | 1 Peter 4:17 - 19)

17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

Phoebe Ann said:

"Those who are sealed in holy temples and who faithfully keep their covenants will receive God's glory, which 'shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever' (D&C 132:19).

"Sometimes, in our earthly impatience, we may lose sight of the Lord's precious promises and disconnect our obedience from the fulfillment of these promises."
Spencer J. Condie, "Claim the Exceeding Great and Precious Promises," Ensign, Nov. 2007, 16 17

"The Lord has a pattern of sharing divine truth with prophets to guide and bless us through the challenges and evils of life: hear and heed. Our personal spiritual foundation needs to be built upon this pattern if we want to enjoy the blessings of the Lord. So it is not enough to search the scriptures to know the mind of the Lord. It must be followed by an act of faith, accepting to do the will of the Lord by obeying His commandments, before we can enjoy the blessings of the Lord. A personal spiritual confirmation of this process by asking and believing that we will receive becomes, then, the prayer of our lifetime."
Charles Didier, "Man's Search for Divine Truth," Ensign, Nov. 2005, 48

Willing, righteous obedience leads to celestial life; indeed, there is no eternal progress without it.
Delbert L. Stapley, The Blessings of Righteous Obedience, Ensign, Nov. 1977

I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise. (D&C 82:10.)

Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come. (D&C 25:15.)

Have ye walked, keeping yourselves blameless before God? Could ye say, if ye were called to die at this time, within yourselves, that ye have been sufficiently humble? That your garments have been cleansed and made white through the blood of Christ, who will come to redeem his people from their sins? Behold, are ye stripped of pride? I say unto you, if ye are not ye are not prepared to meet God. Behold ye must prepare quickly; for the kingdom of heaven is soon at hand, and such an one hath not eternal life. Behold, I say, is there one among you who is not stripped of envy? I say unto you that such an one is not prepared; and I would that he should prepare quickly, for the hour is close at hand, and he knoweth not when the time shall come; for such an one is not found guiltless. And again I say unto you, is there one among you that doth make a mock of his brother, or that heapeth upon him persecutions? Wo unto such an one, for he is not prepared, and the time is at hand that he must repent or he cannot be saved!
(Alma 5:27-31.)


The following is from Church News, How to develop the gift of discernment,
Published: Saturday, Nov. 18, 1995:

The gift of discernment helps us to recognize good and evil, truth and error. We can develop it through the following:

- Praying. When we pray, we focus our minds on our Heavenly Father. Prayer is not a chance for us to tell God what we want. It helps us to learn our Father's will.- Searching the scriptures. Through diligent, prayerful scripture study, our understanding of the gospel increases and so does our ability to recognize truth and error. President Ezra Taft Benson said that the Book of Mormon exposes the enemies of Christ, and it does.

- Keeping the commandments. When we're obedient, we have the Spirit to be with us. When we're disobedient, the Spirit withdraws.
http://www.ldschurchnews.com/articles/26645/How-to-develop-the-gift-of-discernment.html

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(New Testament | Luke 21:36)

36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

(New Testament | Luke 1:6)

6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

(New Testament | Romans 6:16)

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

(New Testament | Acts 5:32)

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Phoebe Ann said:

D&C 130:20-21 says you must earn your blessings. In the Bible God has the option of blessing according to His mercy.Plus your leaders talk about accessing the atonement! Ignoring LDS scripture ought not to be done by LDS.

Obedience is the basic law of heaven, and obedience to specific laws will result in specific blessings, culminating in the greatest blessing, as Elder Marion G. Romney explained: “The perfection upon which exaltation hangs, I repeat, is an individual matter. It is conditioned upon the observance of celestial laws as they apply to earth life. The Word of Wisdom is one of them, so also are chastity, tithing, observance of the Sabbath day, prayer, honesty, industry, love of God and fellow men, patience, kindness, charity, and all the rest of the principles and ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Each individual who observes one or more of these laws shall receive the blessings predicated thereon, and each Church member who will, with all the energy of his soul, diligently strive to live them all, shall receive the blessings predicated upon such striving. Eternal life, the greatest gift of God, is that blessing, and it will follow the living of the gospel as the night the day, regardless of statistics or averages, or of what others think or say or do.” (In Conference Report, Oct. 1956, pp. 15–16; see also Enrichment G in the Appendix.)
“Section 130, Items of Instruction,” Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual (2002), 321–24

“There will be a wise and just God to sit in judgment on all men. … The wicked may prosper for a time, the rebellious may seem to profit by their transgressions, but the time is coming when, at the bar of justice, all men will be judged, ‘every man according to their works’ (Rev. 20:13). No one will ‘get by’ with anything.
On that day no one will escape the penalty of his deeds, no one will fail to receive the blessings he has earned."
Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, pp. 304–5

“The demands of justice for broken law can be satisfied through mercy, earned by your continual repentance and obedience to the laws of God. Such repentance and obedience are absolutely essential for the Atonement to work its complete miracle in your life.”
Mormon Apostle Richard G. Scott, “The Atonement Can Secure Your Peace and Happiness,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 2006, p.42


“We are living eternal life, and our position hereafter will be the result of our lives here. Every man will be judged according to his works, and he will receive only that degree of glory that he has earned. (Conference Reports, April 1945, p. 139.)”
The Teachings of George Albert Smith, p.30

Eternal life, or celestial glory or exaltation, is a conditional gift. Conditions of this gift have been established by the Lord, who said, “If you keep my commandments and endure to the end you shall have eternal life, which gift is the greatest of all the gifts of God.”13 Those qualifying conditions include faith in the Lord, repentance, baptism, receiving the Holy Ghost, and remaining faithful to the ordinances and covenants of the temple.
Elder Russell M. Nelson, Salvation and Exaltation, General Conference, April 2008

Doctrine & Covenants 76
51 They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given—
52 That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power;
53 And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true.

“And if your eye be single to my glory, your whole bodies shall be filled with light, and there shall be no darkness in you; and that body which is filled with light comprehendeth all things.” (D&C 88:16) That can happen if we take responsibility for our dirty linen through repentance and make sure it is clean.
Lynn A. Mickelsen, “The Atonement, Repentance, and Dirty Linen,” Ensign, Nov 2003, 10

COMPLETE OBEDIENCE BRINGS ETERNAL LIFE. But to be exalted one must keep the whole law. This is the great love he shows forth for his children: notwithstanding they sin and close their eyes against the truth, yet his arm is stretched out still, and he will feel after them and bring them back if they will keep his commandments; and if not, he will do for them just the best he can. 3 Is going to bless them with all it is possible to give, and all shall be saved;1 all others will receive a place somewhere and it will be glorious unto them,2 but to receive the exaltation of the righteous, in other words eternal life, the commandments of the Lord must be kept in all things.

1 The word "saved" does not mean eternal life with God.
2 Not dwelling with God!
3 All Mormon gods are bound to laws that were establish prior to their exaltation to godhood.
Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:6

Doctrine and Covenants 82
10 I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.

In the Bible, we are given faith and saved by God's grace.

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What will happen to the unrepentant and those that sin unto death?

(New Testament | 1 John 5:16 - 17)

16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

(New Testament | 1 Peter 4:18 - 19)

18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

(New Testament | Acts 26:20)

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

(New Testament | Matthew 3:8 - 10)

8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Everyone has sinned and MUST do works for repentance or be cast into the fire.

Phoebe Ann said:

Jesus obeyed God. Yet Mormons say He had to be perfected.

Which human has perfectly obeyed God?

D&C 82:7. “Unto That Soul Who Sinneth Shall the Former Sins Return”

7 And now, verily I say unto you, I, the Lord, will not lay any sin to your charge; go your ways and sin no more; but unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return, saith the Lord your God.

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The Bible states that Jesus was perfected:

(New Testament | Luke 13:32)

32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

All have sinned but once they have learned the way of righteousness they should sin no more:

(New Testament | Hebrews 10:17 - 18)

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

(New Testament | Hebrews 10:26)

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

(New Testament | John 5:14)

14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.

Once again, a knowledge of Greek is helpful


KJV "and the third day I shall be perfected."
τελειοῦμαι

teleioó: to bring to an end, to complete, perfect
Original Word: τελειόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: teleioó
Phonetic Spelling: (tel-i-o'-o)
Definition: to bring to an end, to complete, perfect
Usage: (a) as a course, a race, or the like: I complete, finish (b) as of time or prediction: I accomplish, (c) I make perfect; pass: I am perfected.

drstevej said:

Once again, a knowledge of Greek is helpful


KJV "and the third day I shall be perfected."
τελειοῦμαι

teleioó: to bring to an end, to complete, perfect
Original Word: τελειόω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: teleioó
Phonetic Spelling: (tel-i-o'-o)
Definition: to bring to an end, to complete, perfect
Usage: (a) as a course, a race, or the like: I complete, finish (b) as of time or prediction: I accomplish, (c) I make perfect; pass: I am perfected.

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Words have many definitions as stated by the definition of τελειόω. I believe the KJV translators picked the right one.

Phoebe Ann said:

Please tell me about this fire. When and where is it?

"Verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming"(D&C 64:23) (Gospel Principles, 188).

This alleged revelation took place prior to any mention of various degrees in heaven:

Behold, now it is called today until the coming of the Son of Man, and verily it is a day of sacrifice, and a day for the tithing of my people; for he that is tithed shall not be burned at his coming. For after today cometh the burning—this is speaking after the manner of the Lord—for verily I say, tomorrow all the proud and they that do wickedly shall be as stubble; and I will burn them up, for I am the Lord of Hosts; and I will not spare any that remain in Babylon (D&C 64:23-24).

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It is mentioned here:

(Old Testament | Malachi 4:1 - 3)

1 FOR, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
2 ¶ But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

The third heaven is mentioned here:

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 12:2 - 3)

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth

Phoebe Ann said:

The Trinity isn't bound!

D&C 82
10 I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.

The Mormon gods are governed by law:

Latter-day scriptures and other sources do not explicitly state that eternal law exists independently or coeternally with God. This characteristic of eternal law is sometimes inferred, however, from two concepts that do have support in scripture and other LDS sources: 1. God is governed (bound) by law. Latter-day scriptures state that "God would cease to be God" if he were to allow mercy to destroy justice, or justice to overpower mercy, or the plan of redemption to be fulfilled on unjust conditions (Alma 42:13). Scriptures further state that "I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say" (D&C 82:10), implying that God by nature and definition-not by any external coercion-is righteous and trustworthy. Some Church writers have said that "[God] himself governs and is governed by law" (MD, p. 432) and that "the Lord works in accordance with natural law" (DS 2:27). They likewise speak of "higher laws" that account for providence and miracles.

2. Intelligence and truth were not created; they are coeternal with God. "Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be. All truth is independent in that sphere in which God has placed it, to act for itself, as all intelligence also; otherwise there is no existence" (D&C 93:29-30). Joseph Smith expanded upon this teaching in his king follett discourse, stating that "we infer that God had materials to organize the world out of chaos;. Element had an existence from the time he had. The pure principles of element;had no beginning, and can have no;. The mind or the intelligence which man possesses is coeternal with God himself" (TPJS, pp. 350-53). If truth and intelligence were not created by God and are coeternal with him, it may be that they are ordered by and function according to eternal laws or principles that are self-existent. This may be implied in Joseph Smith's phrase "laws of eternal and self-existent principles" (TPJS, p. 181).
Law - The Encyclopedia of Mormonism

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Would God be God if He lied?

(Old Testament | Numbers 23:19)

19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

Certainly God is governed by His own laws.

Phoebe Ann said:

There is sin unto death; it is the continued practice of sin.

God gives us the new birth when He frees us from Satan's power. Here is a fact --- not a commandment:

1 John 3
9 “No one born of God makes a practice of sinning.”

Mormonism teaches that children before the age of eight don't need to repent.

Genesis 8
21 The LORD smelled the pleasing aroma and said in his heart: "Never again will I curse the ground because of humans, even though every inclination of the human heart is evil from childhood. And never again will I destroy all living creatures, as I have done.

Everyone needs a new birth given by God, not manipulated by humans.

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1 John 3 is a wonderful chapter in the Bible. It truly teaches about sin:

(New Testament | 1 John 3:4 - 10)

4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

While the human heart is evil from childhood, children under the age of eight do not need to repent. God has set that age as the age of accountability.