Organ/Body Donation & Christianity

Occams Barber

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This donating your body stuff just keeps getting better. At first the idea of being pickled in alcohol had me impressed as long as the alcohol was of a reasonable standard and I could be guaranteed no hangovers...

Then there was the excellent prospect of a forensic body farm - sunshine, fresh air. (I think I've watched CSI once too often)

Then I discovered I could be preserved as a museum exhibit in Germany's 'Body World's Exhibition'. Imagine me as "Homo Sapiens Perfectus" :rolleyes:

But the best, the very best (so far) comes from Wayne State University. I could become a Crash Test Dummy. Imagine it - dead but still driving too fast!

Yep- it 's all true ;):
7 things you should know about donating your body to science
OB
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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I sorta knew that but I'm in denial since I've always liked the idea of being the 'skeleton in the corner' :(. I think modern skeletons are plastic and I've even heard that student practice body parts are also artificial - but I'm not sure.

Forensic body farms are real. I don't think they return the leftovers.
Body farm on Sydney's outskirts overwhelmed by number of donors
OB
Most medical schools still dissect a real cadaver at some point in training, as far as I am aware. In my day, they used to give each student a bag of bones during our anatomy block, consisting of an entire skeleton (though it may be from more than 1 individual). We even were given a letter, in case a police search or something, caught us with a bag of human bones.

The artificial bones I can see could work, though probably inferior still to the real thing. But other anatomy models really aren't the same than going to the trouble of dissecting a real human. You learn far more, and there are always oddities here or there - often it is the sheer effort of trying to figure out what is what, instead of the artificial models that make it easier to see. Real anatomy isn't that obvious, which is why even experienced surgeons may misidentify structures on occasion.
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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Christians expect a Glorified body on resurrection, not exactly the one we have now. There is no real interest in mummification, like some Egyptian expecting the body to have to serve in the other world. Even in the mediaeval period, dividing the body, burying the head here and the heart there, was common practice. Dust you are and to dust you shall return.

If there are Christians opposed to organ donation on theological grounds, I assume they are a vanishingly small minority. I recently attended a lecture on the role of culture in getting people to consent to organ donation, as part of a drive my hospital is doing. Muslims are the least likely to donate, followed by groups like Hindus, but Jews and Christians are in fact more likely to do so than even the non-religious. This may be an artifact from the fact that traditional Christian countries also have the best developed organ donation schemes, though. One of the countries where an overly large percentage donate their organs, is Spain for instance. This is thought more driven by the availability of intensive care in Catholic hospitals than anything else, so that a large group are suitable candidates.
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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So I looked up the studies. Catholicism is positively correlated with organ donation; and in non-Catholics, people who stress internal and intrinsic usages of Christianity (those doing inward looking prayer and contemplation and the like) are more likely to donate. No correlation between Fundamentalism or Authoritarianism in a Christian tradition and choice on organ donation was found.
So while some Christians cite religious belief as a reason for refusing donation, there isn't any statistical significant correlation against it, but some in favour thereof. I attached one such study.
 

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Occams Barber

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Most medical schools still dissect a real cadaver at some point in training, as far as I am aware. In my day, they used to give each student a bag of bones during our anatomy block, consisting of an entire skeleton (though it may be from more than 1 individual). We even were given a letter, in case a police search or something, caught us with a bag of human bones.

The artificial bones I can see could work, though probably inferior still to the real thing. But other anatomy models really aren't the same than going to the trouble of dissecting a real human. You learn far more, and there are always oddities here or there - often it is the sheer effort of trying to figure out what is what, instead of the artificial models that make it easier to see. Real anatomy isn't that obvious, which is why even experienced surgeons may misidentify structures on occasion.
You may well have restored my faith in human nature.
OB
 
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Occams Barber

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Christians expect a Glorified body on resurrection, not exactly the one we have now. There is no real interest in mummification, like some Egyptian expecting the body to have to serve in the other world. Even in the mediaeval period, dividing the body, burying the head here and the heart there, was common practice. Dust you are and to dust you shall return.

If there are Christians opposed to organ donation on theological grounds, I assume they are a vanishingly small minority. I recently attended a lecture on the role of culture in getting people to consent to organ donation, as part of a drive my hospital is doing. Muslims are the least likely to donate, followed by groups like Hindus, but Jews and Christians are in fact more likely to do so than even the non-religious. This may be an artifact from the fact that traditional Christian countries also have the best developed organ donation schemes, though. One of the countries where an overly large percentage donate their organs, is Spain for instance. This is thought more driven by the availability of intensive care in Catholic hospitals than anything else, so that a large group are suitable candidates.

I'm still looking for the nasty, evangelical/fundamentalist Christians who oppose organ donation so that I can prove that Christianity is a grab bag of indifferent ethics based on a self serving interpretation of Christian scripture.

Your objective data is not helping Quid. :(
OB
 
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Rubiks

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I would say there is not overall agreement. I am aware of two major approaches; one says that the integrity of the body post-death should be respected, and organ donation or the like is frowned upon (as is cremation); and this with a view to the resurrection.

What? Do some people really believe God is incapable of resurrected a cremated body?
 
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jayem

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Most medical schools still dissect a real cadaver at some point in training, as far as I am aware. In my day, they used to give each student a bag of bones during our anatomy block, consisting of an entire skeleton (though it may be from more than 1 individual). We even were given a letter, in case a police search or something, caught us with a bag of human bones.

The artificial bones I can see could work, though probably inferior still to the real thing. But other anatomy models really aren't the same than going to the trouble of dissecting a real human. You learn far more, and there are always oddities here or there - often it is the sheer effort of trying to figure out what is what, instead of the artificial models that make it easier to see. Real anatomy isn't that obvious, which is why even experienced surgeons may misidentify structures on occasion.

Yes, dissecting a cadaver is a long-standing tradition in 1st year gross anatomy. But I’m sure you know how formalin fixation distorts the color and textures of the tissues. I remember how difficult it could be to identify a nerve. Which could look exactly like a tendon, an artery, or even a band of fascia.

Have you ever seen one of the Body Worlds exhibits? It uses the plastination technique. After dissection, all bodily fluids are replaced by a resin, which is hardened by UV light. It results in a near perfect preservation of anatomic structure. For educational purposes, this is far superior to artificial models. Plastinated specimens, which can include entire bodies, are firm, dry, and odorless. And the hardened resin is completely inert, and (supposedly) will never degrade or deteriorate in the environment. It’s a very cool process. I’ve thought about donating my remains to be plastinated. It’s a kind of immortality.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I'm surprised that there is disagreement over what seems such a basic issue, i.e. the necessity (or not) of preserving a body intact as a vehicle for the next life.

The Christian doctrine of the resurrection doesn't involve a mere resuscitation of the body, but involves a transfiguration of the body. The ancients were well aware that bodies decompose, and that frequently people meet their end through loss of limbs, or being eaten by wild beasts, etc. Our Scriptures say, "All are from the dust, and to dust all return" and also "you are dust, and to dust you shall return."

When St. Paul speaks of the resurrection, he contrasts the resurrection body with the present body by speaking of how the present body is mortal and corruptible, whereas the resurrection body is immortal and incorruptible. That word "corruptible" (and its antonym) in Greek is literally, "able to decay", "rotting".

So, fundamentally, whether the body is together and decomposes, or is burned, or is the food of wild beasts, or, say, if one donates some organs to science (so on and so forth), it doesn't really matter. Resurrection isn't zombies poking out through the dirt, but a restoration and transformation of bodily life.

Historically Christians have preferred burial out of our conviction for the resurrection of the body, but there is no sense in that if the body is not whole and buried that resurrection is somehow not possible. That's just not how resurrection is understood in the Christian religion.

On the one hand it is the resurrection of the body, so it is our body being raised; and on the other hand it's not some mere resuscitation, it's a lot more than that.

That's why opinion on the subject is varied, the question really boils down to what we want to say in our death; it's nothing to do with what God is able to do in the resurrection.

Both my parents chose to be cremated, but I have every hope in their resurrection.

If I had it my way I'd be dumped in a hole in the ground, with just a simple grave marker with the Latin word resurgam ("I will rise again") on it. However, I'm also an organ donor. I don't see any conflict in any of these things.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Occams Barber

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The Christian doctrine of the resurrection doesn't involve a mere resuscitation of the body, but involves a transfiguration of the body. The ancients were well aware that bodies decompose, and that frequently people meet their end through loss of limbs, or being eaten by wild beasts, etc. Our Scriptures say, "All are from the dust, and to dust all return" and also "you are dust, and to dust you shall return."

When St. Paul speaks of the resurrection, he contrasts the resurrection body with the present body by speaking of how the present body is mortal and corruptible, whereas the resurrection body is immortal and incorruptible. That word "corruptible" (and its antonym) in Greek is literally, "able to decay", "rotting".

So, fundamentally, whether the body is together and decomposes, or is burned, or is the food of wild beasts, or, say, if one donates some organs to science (so on and so forth), it doesn't really matter. Resurrection isn't zombies poking out through the dirt, but a restoration and transformation of bodily life.

Historically Christians have preferred burial out of our conviction for the resurrection of the body, but there is no sense in that if the body is not whole and buried that resurrection is somehow not possible. That's just not how resurrection is understood in the Christian religion.

On the one hand it is the resurrection of the body, so it is our body being raised; and on the other hand it's not some mere resuscitation, it's a lot more than that.

That's why opinion on the subject is varied, the question really boils down to what we want to say in our death; it's nothing to do with what God is able to do in the resurrection.

Both my parents chose to be cremated, but I have every hope in their resurrection.

If I had it my way I'd be dumped in a hole in the ground, with just a simple grave marker with the Latin word resurgam ("I will rise again") on it. However, I'm also an organ donor. I don't see any conflict in any of these things.

-CryptoLutheran
Thanks for a nice exposition VC.

As an outsider I find the concept of heaven confusing. Listening to Christians generally on CF it seems to be both a physical place (BYO body) or a metaphysical place (metaphysical "body" supplied) or perhaps (somehow) both.

Most people here seem to describe it in terms of an upmarket, sin-free, work-free version of normal life. A bit like an expensive resort without water slides, Tia Maria and hedonism. I see questions like;

Is there sex in heaven?
Is there gender in heaven?
Will my pet be with me in heaven?
Will I still be married to my spouse in heaven?

The answers appear to be 'No' and 'Yes'.

From what you've said, there appears to be no official Christian position opposing organ donation and significant Christian support. I suspect there are individual Christians with the theologically naïve view that they should keep themselves in one piece for the Resurrection.
OB
 
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Dave-W

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I see no biblical issue with organ or body donation. God can and will reassemble us at resurrection, even if we were sitting on a nuke when it went off and we are entirely vaporized.

But what of those donated parts? If any of you have heard more than a cut or 2 from my CD you will hear Gary doing the lead singing. About a year prior to us recording that project, he had cornea transplants due to a work accident. A few months after the surgery, he would wake up seeing a different room and a different wife and kids. It would clear after a few seconds. So he told the doctor on a follow up appointment and the doc said it was actually rather common. What he saw was most likely the donor’s family and bedroom.

It sounds rather spooky; but perhaps that genetic memory could lead the recipient to come to faith.
 
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FireDragon76

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I'm surprised that there is disagreement over what seems such a basic issue, i.e. the necessity (or not) of preserving a body intact as a vehicle for the next life.

Christians don't believe the body has to be preserved intact- God is not limited in that way. So objections to cremation, for instance, don't have to do with that. They have more to do with respect for the sanctity of the body.

I think organ donation is a good thing because it fulfills the biblical principle to protect and preserve life, but at the same time I don't think one should be required to do so and room must be left for different sentiments about how to honor the integrity of the body.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Thanks for a nice exposition VC.

As an outsider I find the concept of heaven confusing. Listening to Christians generally on CF it seems to be both a physical place (BYO body) or a metaphysical place (metaphysical "body" supplied) or perhaps (somehow) both.

Most people here seem to describe it in terms of an upmarket, sin-free, work-free version of normal life. A bit like an expensive resort without water slides, Tia Maria and hedonism. I see questions like;

Is there sex in heaven?
Is there gender in heaven?
Will my pet be with me in heaven?
Will I still be married to my spouse in heaven?

The answers appear to be 'No' and 'Yes'.

From what you've said, there appears to be no official Christian position opposing organ donation and significant Christian support. I suspect there are individual Christians with the theologically naïve view that they should keep themselves in one piece for the Resurrection.
OB

A lot of that confusion you're reading in Christian posts and responses has to do with the simple problematic fact that many Christians are themselves improperly catechized.

Growing up I didn't even learn about the doctrine of the resurrection until I read it for myself in the Bible as a late teenager. Though I had been raised in a devout Christian home, went to church every Sunday, went to Sunday School every Sunday, attended a Christian private school until I was in the 8th grade, participated in two different youth groups all throughout high school. At no point had I ever heard about the resurrection.

I had heard, since childhood, that we die, and our souls float off into Heaven, and that is where we will spend eternity with God. That was it.

So when I read the Bible for myself, saw it mention resurrection I wasn't sure what to make of it. But then I found out it's what Christians always believed. So I was confused why nobody ever told me before. When I started asking around, asking my dad for example, or talking to others in my church, or youth group, or to my friends and peers--they all had no idea what I was talking about. So the reason why nobody ever told me was because, apparently, nobody had ever told them either.

Later on I started watching some speeches and videos from Dr. N.T. Wright, retired Anglican Bishop and also regarded as one of the foremost New Testament scholars around. This was a topic Wright also considered as deeply problematic, that somehow over the last century or so one of the most basic and integral teachings of Christianity has often been in part, or even entirely, been obfuscated in popular religion. Instead of talking about the renewal and restoration of creation, the resurrection of the body, etc popular religion speaks instead of a kind of ethereal existence up in this place called "heaven".

So, yeah, you are going to see a lot of confusing statements made by Christians, because a lot of Christians simply haven't been taught some of the most basic teachings of the Christian religion.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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