Sola Fide (Faith Alone) Sets the Record Straight

BNR32FAN · Jun 19, 2019

mdamon0501 said:
In both passages the loss of salvation has nothing to do with the works of the individual in the example. Was not the wild olive grafted in while still wild? What does it say? "Do not forget that it is not you who supports the root, but the root that support you."

"Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith."

"Do not be conceited, but fear; For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will neither spare you."

Do you understand where we are coming from? It has nothing to do with how pure your works are, but everything to do with our faith, and God's will.

The Gentiles were also warned of being cut off for their conceitedness.

“Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.”
‭‭ROMANS‬ ‭11:20-22‬ ‭NASB‬‬

BNR32FAN · Jun 19, 2019

mdamon0501 said:
In both passages the loss of salvation has nothing to do with the works of the individual in the example. Was not the wild olive grafted in while still wild? What does it say? "Do not forget that it is not you who supports the root, but the root that support you."

"Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith."

"Do not be conceited, but fear; For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will neither spare you."

Do you understand where we are coming from? It has nothing to do with how pure your works are, but everything to do with our faith, and God's will.

John 15:1-10 is a perfect example of being cut off for not bearing fruit (works and obedience).

“"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples. Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:1-10‬ ‭NASB‬‬

BNR32FAN · Jun 19, 2019

mdamon0501 said:
Again it's a straw man. I personally don't go to strip clubs, but my experience personally has nothing to do with what scripture teaches.

Scripture teaches the Total Depravity of man, even after given the Holy Spirit.

Any man who says he does not sin, lies. That is scriptural truth. You can go around it. You cant get past it. Not least of when Paul was calling himself a sinner openly before the congregations of the church's. Christians SIN, we are flesh, it's that simple. It's how we grieve our sin that matters, and our Faith is to be eternally lodged in the bosom of Christ, and nowhere else.

Can you please answer the question, are you capable of doing what Rick did? Could you bring yourself to do that?

mdamon0501 · Jun 19, 2019

Is it a confession of sin that you are looking for? If so then let me be the first. I am guilty in the past month of committing sexual immorality with a woman. The lust of my flesh threw me into bed with her, blinding my eyes from God, and quenching the spirit.

Does this admission help you?

The point is that after the sun has risen the next morning I was grieved in my heart about what had transpired, and immediately went to my knees in prayer to beg for Mercy and Forgiveness, and informed the woman we could not do it again.

Christians sin my friend, the scripture tells us so.

bcbsr · Jun 19, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
Not one single Christian church writing before 1500AD supports the doctrines of faith alone or eternal security. In fact every one of them taught the exact opposite. So it’s preposterous to say that the apostles taught these doctrines if there’s no evidence of it in the early church writings.

Some among the many verses indicating faith as the sole condition for salvation: John 3:16; John 5:24; Rom 4:1-8; Gal 3;11,12; Rom 10:1-13; Eph 2:8,9;

Some among the many verses indicating once saved, always saved: 1John 2:19; Rom 8:1,2; Rom 8:38,39; John 5:24; 2Tim 4:18; John 10:9; Acts 2:21; Acts 16:31; Rom 6:5; Rom 6:8; Rom 10:9; 1Tim 2:11; 1Cor 3:15; 2Cor 1:21,22; Eph 1:5,11,13-14; Heb 7:25; 1Pet 1:3-5;

Some among the many verses speaking of performance being an indicator rather than the cause of a person's salvation. (Salvation by Works Christians typically confuse the condition for salvation with the condition of the saved) 1John 3:9,10; 1John 3:6; 2Cor 5:17; Jer 31:33,34; Rom 8:9; 1John 5:3-5; Jer 32:38-41

bcbsr · Jun 19, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
Here’s evidence of loss of salvation

“These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them. In a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they fall away. And others are the ones on whom seed was sown among the thorns; these are the ones who have heard the word, but the worries of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
‭‭MARK‬ ‭4:15-19‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Doesn't indicate they had saving faith to begin with. The faith that saves is a conviction. It's a faith that has already considered the implications and so when trouble comes because of the word it stands. The troubles of this life are not a priority in comparison to one's faith in Christ alone.

It's also not a faith in one's own performance which you advocate. It's a faith in Christ alone to saved, as Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24 Consequently, seeing as one is eternal security, having the above promise, among the fruits of faith are joy and peace and hope, fruits which are lacking among salvation by works Christians.

bcbsr · Jun 19, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
Here’s evidence of loss of salvation

“But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.”
‭‭ROMANS‬ ‭11:17-23‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Wrong again. He's referring to people groups (Gentiles and Jews) and not to individuals. Note the contrast between "you" versus "they". He's speaking with the long view of history in mind. Ro 11:26 "And so all Israel will be saved" Has all Israel been saved?

bcbsr · Jun 19, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
Here’s evidence of loss of salvation

“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:2, 6‬ ‭NASB‬‬

Lots of people attached themselves to Christianity - the visible church. They are christians on the surface, but because they don't have Christ dwelling in them they don't bear fruit. Those who have come to saving faith are given the Holy Spirit which is Christ dwelling in them. The word "dwell" is μενω which means to remain.

1John 3:9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains <μενω> in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Consequently remaining in Him is characteristic of those born of God due to the nature of regeneration. It's not a matter of cooperation. It's a matter of regeneration.

And consequently concerning those who fall away, it is written, "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." 1John 2:19

Grip Docility · Jun 19, 2019

mdamon0501 said:
Is it a confession of sin that you are looking for? If so then let me be the first. I am guilty in the past month of committing sexual immorality with a woman. The lust of my flesh threw me into bed with her, blinding my eyes from God, and quenching the spirit.

Does this admission help you?

The point is that after the sun has risen the next morning I was grieved in my heart about what had transpired, and immediately went to my knees in prayer to beg for Mercy and Forgiveness, and informed the woman we could not do it again.

Christians sin my friend, the scripture tells us so.

We confess our sins one to another and He is faithful and just to forgive!

We don’t have to be open... but to be Honest is a mark Of His Spirit residing in us!

All Love in Jesus Christ to you!

BNR32FAN · Jun 19, 2019

mdamon0501 said:
Is it a confession of sin that you are looking for? If so then let me be the first. I am guilty in the past month of committing sexual immorality with a woman. The lust of my flesh threw me into bed with her, blinding my eyes from God, and quenching the spirit.

Does this admission help you?

The point is that after the sun has risen the next morning I was grieved in my heart about what had transpired, and immediately went to my knees in prayer to beg for Mercy and Forgiveness, and informed the woman we could not do it again.

Christians sin my friend, the scripture tells us so.

Bless you friend I appreciate your honesty. My wife and I engaged in premarital sex a few times. We tried to fight it my sleeping in separate rooms. She slept with our daughters and I slept alone. But we still fell to temptation. We tried to justify it at the time by saying we are in love and engaged to be married. After we stumbled in sin we went ahead and got married by a JP instead of our original plan of being married in the church because we knew we were weak and would fail again. So I’m no saint myself either.

Grip Docility · Jun 19, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
Bless you friend I appreciate your honesty. My wife and I engaged in premarital sex a few times. We tried to fight it my sleeping in separate rooms. She slept with our daughters and I slept alone. But we still fell to temptation. We tried to justify it at the time by saying we are in love and engaged to be married. After we stumbled in sin we went ahead and got married by a JP instead of our original plan of being married in the church because we knew we were weak and would fail again. So I’m no saint myself either.

All blessing in Jesus Christ to you and your soul mate, for your sincerity and honesty!

Danthemailman · Jun 21, 2019

Jason0047 said:
Not true. The word "justified by works" in James 2:24 is referring to salvation. In James 2:24, James refers to being justified by faith.

James is not teaching that man is justified/accounted as righteous/saved by works in James 2:24 as works-salvationists teach. *Once again, In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. *James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

First, in other parts of the Bible, we know that being justified by faith is dealing with salvation. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:1).

In Paul's epistles, yes. In James 2, no. The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul uses the term to refer to the legal or judicial act by which God "accounts the believer as righteous." James however is using the term to "describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by their works."

Here is a little more context.

A faith without works is a dead kind of faith (James 2:17).
A dead faith cannot access the saving grace of God.
For without faith, it is impossible to please God (See: Hebrews 11:6).
James says he will show you his faith by his works (James 2:18).
So this means that works are a part of faith. You cannot separate the two (like you are attempting to do). James says in James 2:19 that a belief alone is like that of the faith of demons. So a belief alone is bad and not good. James 2:24 says that we are justified by works and faith. You cannot be justified by faith in men. But you can only be justified by faith in God. So this means that we are justified by works before God and not men. Justified means to be declared righteous.

A little more context indeed. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

Faith without works is dead (James 2:17,20) does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (which is like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree) or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If some says-claims to have faith yet they lack resulting evidential works, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:19, the demons may believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," yet they do not believe/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. You seem to believe that all belief is the same except for the lack of works and cannot seem to grasp a deeper faith which trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, which also explains why you have so much faith in works for salvation.

Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1) Faith is not works, yet we show our faith by our works. (James 2:18) SHOW, not establish. Works are the fruit of faith, not the essence of faith. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root. That is the separation. You are trying to infuse the two and the erroneous end result is salvation by faith and works. *Be sure to go back and meditate on post #524.

Yet, you do not believe Christ's finished work is sufficient to save if you believe works MUST be a by-product of showing a true saved genuine faith.

Just the opposite. It's you who does not believe that Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient to save if you believe that works help save us in part. Either Christ did it all (ALL-sufficient Savior) or else we did some of it (IN-sufficient Savior). You can't have it both ways.

If works did not save and yet they were a by-product of salvation, then they would need to be there as showing that one is truly saved (Meaning: Works do play a part in salvation in some way). This is why your belief is a contradiction. You simply cannot see it.

Becoming saved through faith, not works and showing our faith by our works does not mean that works play a part in obtaining salvation. My belief is not a contradiction. It is through faith in Christ alone (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justified is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony* :oldthumbsup:

Your belief is a perversion of the gospel and you simply cannot see it.

Grip Docility · Jun 21, 2019

Danthemailman said:
James is not teaching that man is justified/accounted as righteous/saved by works in James 2:24 as works-salvationists teach. *Once again, In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. *James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In Paul's epistles, yes. In James 2, no. The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul uses the term to refer to the legal or judicial act by which God "accounts the believer as righteous." James however is using the term to "describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by their works."

A little more context indeed. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

Faith without works is dead (James 2:17,20) does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (which is like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree) or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If some says-claims to have faith yet they lack resulting evidential works, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:19, the demons may believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," yet they do not believe/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. You seem to believe that all belief is the same except for the lack of works and cannot seem to grasp a deeper faith which trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, which also explains why you have so much faith in works for salvation.

Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1) Faith is not works, yet we show our faith by our works. (James 2:18) SHOW, not establish. Works are the fruit of faith, not the essence of faith. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root. That is the separation. You are trying to infuse the two and the erroneous end result is salvation by faith and works. *Be sure to go back and meditate on post #524.

Just the opposite. It's you who does not believe that Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient to save if you believe that works help save us in part. Either Christ did it all (ALL-sufficient Savior) or else we did some of it (IN-sufficient Savior). You can't have it both ways.

Becoming saved through faith, not works and showing our faith by our works does not mean that works play a part in obtaining salvation. My belief is not a contradiction. It is through faith in Christ alone (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justified is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*

Your belief is a perversion of the gospel and you simply cannot see it.

Amen!

I don’t care who this guy is or what his theology is, but you said it correctly and this guy explosively drives the TRUTH home.

MDC · Jun 21, 2019

Danthemailman said:
James is not teaching that man is justified/accounted as righteous/saved by works in James 2:24 as works-salvationists teach. *Once again, In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. *James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In Paul's epistles, yes. In James 2, no. The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul uses the term to refer to the legal or judicial act by which God "accounts the believer as righteous." James however is using the term to "describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by their works."

A little more context indeed. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

Faith without works is dead (James 2:17,20) does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (which is like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree) or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If some says-claims to have faith yet they lack resulting evidential works, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:19, the demons may believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," yet they do not believe/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. You seem to believe that all belief is the same except for the lack of works and cannot seem to grasp a deeper faith which trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, which also explains why you have so much faith in works for salvation.

Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1) Faith is not works, yet we show our faith by our works. (James 2:18) SHOW, not establish. Works are the fruit of faith, not the essence of faith. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root. That is the separation. You are trying to infuse the two and the erroneous end result is salvation by faith and works. *Be sure to go back and meditate on post #524.

Just the opposite. It's you who does not believe that Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient to save if you believe that works help save us in part. Either Christ did it all (ALL-sufficient Savior) or else we did some of it (IN-sufficient Savior). You can't have it both ways.

Becoming saved through faith, not works and showing our faith by our works does not mean that works play a part in obtaining salvation. My belief is not a contradiction. It is through faith in Christ alone (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justified is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*

Your belief is a perversion of the gospel and you simply cannot see it.

Exactly correct! And a perversion it is

Grip Docility · Jun 21, 2019

MDC said:
Exactly correct! And a perversion it is

When the BLOOD of God is made to be ineffectual by the words of man, to Save a genuine sinner, the very HEART of the gospel is being trampled.

The Anathema Gospels are the Salt that have lost it's flavor, good for nothing more that to be thrown out to the earth and trampled before men. What does it do? Like Salt, it destroys the crops and allows no GOOD thing to GROW.

IN other words... AMEN!

Grip Docility · Jun 21, 2019

Figured I'd repost this here, because it seems to fit here, as well.:

Pick any reference to sexual immorality in the New Testament, or any sin listed in the old covenant... mentioned in the New Testament...

Jesus and the Apostles don’t spell sin of the old covenant out to reinstate the old covenant into the new covenant...

The bottom line is, if not for the armor of Jesus Christ... (His imputed Righteousness)... we would be damned!

Christians all struggle with different sins... Paul, John, ~~George And Ringo~~ Peter and James, are all in harmony. I reject modern dispensational understanding because it denies the harmony of the Jewish directed books and the gentile directed books (Read the intros to each epistle... it’s there... spoiler alert... Hebrews was directed towards the Diaspora and Revelation uses Israel’s imagery)....

The fact is, sin is defined by the OLD LAW, and Obedience to God is now defined as LOVE! John 13:34

I’m going to walk the plank here and speak up passionately clearly... Christians aren’t marked by their adhesion to principles of the OLD COVENANT! Christians are marked by LOVE (John 13:35).

Jesus came for Sinners. Paul specifies Jesus died for SINNERS (WHILE they were YET SINNERS)... and this means that the blood is especially effectual towards SINNERS.

You can’t Love a Sinner if you’re busy trying to make them less (SINFUL) (ACCORDING to Moses).

ALL charges of Moses have been CRUCIFIED in Christ’s Flesh! We can’t even LOVE ourselves if we charge sin of Moses to ourselves.

The Holy Spirit... HE is the CONVICTION. That’s HIS J-O-B.

Christians have sex! Unless a person is lobotomized, castrated, over the age of 70 (Sometimes 40)... or sociopathic to the point they have no desire to have sex... they have a sex drive! Christians lie, cheat, screw up and the like! What distinguishes Christians from non Christians is that Christians Love when it hurts, hope when there appears to be no Hope and have Faith in the face of Even... Disaster!

Anyone who has been in pastoral ministry will tell you sincere Christians Make HUGE mistakes!

The whole (The Law of Moses) has the power to rip the Holy Spirit from a Christian gig is a bunch of Hooey!

It’s all about Faith in Christ and the Holy Spirit working to clean the cup from the INSIDE, In God’s Time, not ours.

If Sister or Brother Nosey, Pointing Fingers Desire Sister Hot Stuff to change sooner... guess what... Sister and Brother Nosey, Pointing Finger are worse off than Sister Hot Stuff, because Jesus Saved Sister Hot Stuff’s, While He flat Blasted Brother And Sister Nosey, Pointing Finger!

The New Covenant allows us to walk where Jesus Walked... And that means among Sinners! Not artificial Sinners or Mr. Grew up in church and is “struggling” to not use four letter words Sinners, but real live, mess up big time... really in trouble, miserable, in the throws of Sin, Sinners!

Mega sinners make the best preachers and priests because they know how deeply they need Jesus! As the Holy Spirit convicts and cleans them from the inside, they never forget how deeply Jesus saved them and how deeply Jesus ultimately changed them!

An alcoholic that beat their kids, lost their wife and lived in perpetual stupor that comes out of Alcohol addiction from the natural... (Takes Time!)... Work Of (Romans 8:9) won’t want to fall off the wagon again, because it ruins their Carnal life! If they fell off the wagon, again... All the Sister and Brother Nosey, Pointing Fingers in the world can point away, But that man is still SAVED, and Jesus will pick that man up out of his own Liquor Sick and LOVE that man back to health! When Jesus is done with the man, He’s going to utilize His size 70 X 7 shoe to recalibrate Sister and brother Nosey, Pointing Finger... and I assure you, Brother fell of the Wagon will have had it easier, even if he went Homeless, than Sister and Brother NPF!

Our Job is to LOVE! God’s JOB is to Convict and sanctify over a LIFETIME!

Don’t care about this dudes theology or whatever... he understands the Gospel.

BNR32FAN · Jun 21, 2019

Danthemailman said:
James is not teaching that man is justified/accounted as righteous/saved by works in James 2:24 as works-salvationists teach. *Once again, In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. *James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In Paul's epistles, yes. In James 2, no. The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul uses the term to refer to the legal or judicial act by which God "accounts the believer as righteous." James however is using the term to "describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by their works."

A little more context indeed. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

Faith without works is dead (James 2:17,20) does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (which is like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree) or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If some says-claims to have faith yet they lack resulting evidential works, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:19, the demons may believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," yet they do not believe/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. You seem to believe that all belief is the same except for the lack of works and cannot seem to grasp a deeper faith which trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, which also explains why you have so much faith in works for salvation.

Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1) Faith is not works, yet we show our faith by our works. (James 2:18) SHOW, not establish. Works are the fruit of faith, not the essence of faith. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root. That is the separation. You are trying to infuse the two and the erroneous end result is salvation by faith and works. *Be sure to go back and meditate on post #524.

Just the opposite. It's you who does not believe that Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient to save if you believe that works help save us in part. Either Christ did it all (ALL-sufficient Savior) or else we did some of it (IN-sufficient Savior). You can't have it both ways.

Becoming saved through faith, not works and showing our faith by our works does not mean that works play a part in obtaining salvation. My belief is not a contradiction. It is through faith in Christ alone (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justified is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*

Your belief is a perversion of the gospel and you simply cannot see it.

I agree that James is not saying that Abraham was rendered righteous by his works. If James were saying that he would be directly contradicting what Paul said in Romans 4:1-5. I’ve explained the definition of the Greek word translated to justified to brother Jason but he won’t accept it.

Guojing · Jun 23, 2019

BNR32FAN said:
I agree that James is not saying that Abraham was rendered righteous by his works. If James were saying that he would be directly contradicting what Paul said in Romans 4:1-5. I’ve explained the definition of the Greek word translated to justified to brother Jason but he won’t accept it.

Actually James never believe that the Jews could be saved by faith only, apart from works. Acts 15 and 21 made that clear.

Grip Docility · Jun 23, 2019

Guojing said:
Actually James never believe that the Jews could be saved by faith only, apart from works. Acts 15 and 21 made that clear.

James says faith without Love is Dead just like Paul... per the Royal command James cites.

Either in Christ... (Galatians 5:4 ; or in the Law James 2:10)

Guojing · Jun 23, 2019

Grip Docility said:
James says faith without Love is Dead just like Paul... per the Royal command James cites.

Either in Christ... (Galatians 5:4 ; or in the Law James 2:10)

Acts 15:19 and Acts 21:25 made it clear that, as far as James is concerned, the Jews are not exempted from following the Law of Moses after they accepted Jesus Christ as their Messiah. Only the Gentiles are to be exempted.

Thus, when someone read James chapter 2, bear in mind that he was writing to the 12 tribes of Israel. When us Gentiles read that letter as written TO us, we will have a problem trying to reconcile what is not meant to be reconciled.

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