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What does the verse say? You are mostly telling me what it doesn't say here, but not acknowledging what it does say, which is that God is faithful who will sanctify completely the believer and preserve blameless their entire person - spirit, soul and body unto the return of Christ. But, if God has taken it upon Himself to fully sanctify every believer, they need not fear for their salvation.
So, now you're no longer talking about the passage I cited but another one entirely. I guess that makes sense since the verses I cited thoroughly defeat a saved-and-lost/works salvation belief.
1 Thessalonians 4:3-8 (NKJV)
3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality;
4 that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor,
5 not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God;
6 that no one should take advantage of and defraud his brother in this matter, because the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also forewarned you and testified.
7 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness.
8 Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit.
Perhaps you don't realize that positionally in Christ, every believer has been - past tense - already fully sanctified, which is why God accepts them.
1 Corinthians 1:2 (NKJV)
2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
Note that Paul writes "are sanctified" not "are being sanctified," or "will eventually be sanctified."
1 Corinthians 6:11 (NKJV)
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Same here. Paul says the Corinthian believers "were sanctified," not "would be sanctified." In God's eyes, His children are sanctified already by their being in Christ. And this is why a Christian does not need to rely on his success in living in a sanctified way in order to be accepted by God.
Hebrews 10:14 (NKJV)
14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
The writer of Hebrews indicates here that there is a positional sanctification in Christ that is complete (perfected forever) and a sanctification of condition, of daily experience, that is in the process of being worked out in the Christian's life. It is because the former sanctification exists that the latter sanctification can develop over time and the believer still be accepted by God. God's standard is perfection, even in regards to our sanctification. He would not tolerate our sanctification being progressive if we weren't already fully sanctified in Christ. And because our sanctification is complete in Christ, we don't have to fear for our salvation if the sanctification of our condition isn't what it should be.
??? Where does Paul say this in the passage above from Ephesians 1? Paul wrote that God chose us, not we, Him from before the world existed to be holy and without blame before Him. This was accomplished by Christ, not by our good works. Paul also explained that our acceptance with God is based in our union with Christ. We are "accepted in the Beloved" and only because of the Beloved. God accepts us on no other basis - certainly not on the basis of our works. And, since our acceptance is Christ-contingent, not us-contingent, and God always accepts Christ, our acceptance with God is also constant and permanent.
Where is this stated in the verse? Where in the verse does it say, "if we remain so"? No where.
Again, you've had to resort to another passage entirely to scrape up ground for your view. That should tell you something about the bankruptcy of your view. It certainly does me.
Here's the passage in a more clear format:
Ephesians 5:5-8 (NKJV)
5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light
It is important to note how Paul phrases things in this passage, most particularly in verse 7. He uses the pronoun "them" in the verse and in doing so distinguishes the Ephesian Christians to whom he was writing from the "sons of disobedience" he had been describing. He does not suggest that the Ephesians were acting like "sons of disobedience" and so had better fear for their salvation, but simply warns them to avoid contact with such people. The Ephesian believers are "children of light" and ought to have no fellowship with the darkness. There is no threat here of lost-salvation, nor a teaching that works are vital to maintaining one's salvation, only the advice to steer clear of the company of people not of the light. Certainly, no where in the verses does Paul write anything like, "for us to rest in the assurance of God's promises to continue His work in US to the day of Salvation, then we must remain faithful."
You tried using this passage before in this slippery way but it didn't work then and it won't work now. The verse doesn't actually read as you have it here.
2 Timothy 2:19 (NKJV)
19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity."
There is no "must" in this verse. And this is why upwards of 90% of all English versions of the Bible do not translate the verse with a "must" in it. This changes the tenor of the verse significantly. Instead of demanding as necessary the believer's departure from iniquity, the verse only commands it. There is no implicit threat in the verse if there is no "must" in it. There is only an "ought" where you would insinuate an "or else."
Hi Aiki,
You wrote:
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What does the verse say?
>>
One of the things that most amazes me about you is that you have no fear of God when you tear His Word apart into verses and create whole doctrines out of isolated verses that are divorced from their context. Even in the very same inspired letter to a Church, you tear it into verses, keeping what you can use and denying the rest.
I put the verses back into their context the way God meant it, and you scold me for doing so just to uphold your man-made myths.
You attempt to refute the clear teaching of Scripture, in context, disagreeing with God himself, saying that sanctification is 100% God's work, and we just sit there. Well, that is not what the Gospel teaches. And your arguments do not change that fact.
Yes, sanctification is God's Work, but only in those who live by faith in Jesus, walking by His Spirit, just as Scripture teaches. That is how sanctification actually occurs according to the Gospel.
Sanctification comes by faith in Jesus.
Acts 26:16-18 (WEB) Lord Jesus being quoted...
16 "But arise, and stand on your feet, for I have appeared to you for this purpose: to appoint you a servant and a witness both of the things which you have seen, and of the things which I will reveal to you; 17 delivering you from the people, and from the Gentiles, to whom I send you, 18 to open their eyes, that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive remission of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in me."
Yes, sanctification is God's Work, but only in those who live by faith in Jesus, walking by His Spirit, just as Scripture teaches.
Romans 12:1 (NIV) A command of Paul to the Romans
12 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy,
- to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice,
- holy and pleasing to God—
- this is your true and proper worship.
14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”
17 Since you call on a Father who judges each person’s work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear.
Romans 8:12-13 (NIV)
12 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation — but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. 13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but ifby the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
Aiki wrote:
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2 Timothy 2:19 (NKJV)
19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity."
There is no "must" in this verse.
>>
setst: Oh yes, I remember. You believe that departing from iniquity is optional. No go Aiki. Not in God's word.
The New Life in Christ, being made alive, means you are now living a holy life if you continue in the faith, walking in the Spirit. Nothing optional about it.
Galatians 6:7-9 (NIV)
7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked.
A man reaps what he sows.
- 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction;
- whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
- 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest IF we do not give up.
Romans 12:1 (NIV)
12 Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy,
- to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice,
- holy and pleasing to God—
- this is your true and proper worship.
1 Peter 1:13 Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”
17 Since you call on a Father who judges each person’s work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear.
It is up to YOU to continue in the faith, putting off the old self, and then putting on the New Self created to be like Christ Jesus. We do this by walking in the Spirit Christ - sowing to please the Spirit. That is sanctification.
Ephesians 4:20-30 (NIV)
20 That, however, is not the way of life you learned 21 when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Romans 6:20-22
20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.
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