What is Heaven like?
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~Anastasia~
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"Heaven" as in where God is now? And if Revelation is any indication, where angels and in some way some or many Saints are?
Or "heaven" as in where the "saved" will live in communion with God forever, which it seems may be on a restored earth?
I don't know the answer anyway, beyond what we have been told. It will be the Presence of God, it will be glorious, it will be beyond our understanding or expectation.
I confess that I've wondered too. I hope there are lots of flowers.
And animals. Seeing as how that is how God created Eden, I have hopes that it will have those.
Or "heaven" as in where the "saved" will live in communion with God forever, which it seems may be on a restored earth?
I don't know the answer anyway, beyond what we have been told. It will be the Presence of God, it will be glorious, it will be beyond our understanding or expectation.
I confess that I've wondered too. I hope there are lots of flowers.
And animals. Seeing as how that is how God created Eden, I have hopes that it will have those.
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icxn
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Saint Andrew the fool-for-Christ that had the vision of the Theotokos protecting the people (Protecting Veil), also had the most vivid vision of Heaven of probably all the Saints known to us. Unfortunately, I could't find the text online and the book about his life is out of print. The Great Synaxaristis (May 28) has it too, but is more expensive.
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~Anastasia~
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RaymondG
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No. Period. You won'don't like my desires so mine wouldn't be perfect to you. I don't desire what you want so yours would not be perfect to me, even though they seem perfect to you.
Good thing that, in my father's house, there are many mansions......so we don't have to share......I just might not like your taste in furniture...
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and where does Scripture say this at all (aside from the many mansions reference)?
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if nothing Biblical, anything from history that supports your understanding?
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~Anastasia~
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My point is ... what if a person desires debauchery? That in no way means that "heaven" is going to be given him to enjoy sin. What I've heard about "heaven" from a Muslim's position (perhaps for martyrs) comes to mind. If it's true, they expect to have new virgins provided for them every day (presumably for sexual activity). What does that say about heaven for the virgins is what has always struck me!
But my point is, if one desires something contrary to God's will, that does NOT mean God will provide/allow it, just to satisfy human desires. I'm not talking about taste in furniture or anything so materially mundane. I actually doubt such things will be our main concern in eternity.
Heaven can't be about satisfying selfish desires. It is about communion with God (and each other in God). Our desires must be perfected in God so that we will enjoy and desire communion with Him over all.
Life in this age is to prepare us for heaven. It is not designed to be primarily the stage-setter that lets each of us design what heaven will be for each of us personally, as if eternity took second place to this existence or was based merely on personal human whim.
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RaymondG
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Do you agree that debauchery exist now on earth? And if it does exist....would it not be because there are some who desire it? For earth to be heaven....everyone will have to desire love and peace.....until then....we will have a mixture of both...... why do you believe things will change later?
Do you feel that having a sexual partner everyday is heavenly? I dont. so this doesnt sound like heaven to me and would not be in mind.....you are assuming that people would be forced in the muslims idea of heaven, or yours, for that matter...... This is not supported by any statements I've made.
Who decides what is contrary to Gods will? Who interpretation of it holds true? The answer is...."Your interpretation." What a man thinketh, so is he.....be it unto you as you believe.
Yes, so why do you feel that this communion with God can only matter in the future? What is preventing this heaven from being experienced now....by you?
If you desire for your heaven to be designed by someone else.....I have no problem with that. And eternity does take second place to this existence for those who look for it in the future......for today is the day of salvation.....and those who would receive it passes from death to life.....never to die again....
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~Anastasia~
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Forgive me. I really can't figure out if we disagree or not.
The statement we disagreed on was that heaven is filled with our desires if our desires are perfected.
Maybe you took that to mean something else? I certainly didn't have furniture styles in mind. That's a pretty worldly consideration.
Yes, we can experience a foretaste of something of the kingdom of heaven on earth, and communion with God (and indeed, the good of the created order as well). That too is determined by how much our desires are perfected - i.e. how much like Christ we are in this life.
I really don't know how to address otherwise - like I said, I can't tell if you agree or disagree.
But heaven is not just God creating whatever each person wants forever, boxed off for each of us, based on our earthly desires. I don't think that's what you're saying though?
Heaven is what heaven is (Or the restored earth). We are being fitted to enjoy it as it is/will be. It will not be created in the image of our desire. There may be minor little delights tailored for us ... like any good parent God delights in our joy. But our particular desires are not the foundation of eternity as though they were the most important thing.
Again, I don't know if we are even talking about the same question.
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~Anastasia~
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I will say that the question of sexual enjoyment is a good one to consider. God isn't going to make separate heavens so that each person can enjoy the kind/level of sexual fulfillment they desire.
The matter of sexual enjoyment is already settled. (And from all indications, there won't be sexual activity in heaven.) It will be what it will be, and "the saved" will be of the state to appreciate God's wisdom and what is present in heaven.
That's what I mean by saying we are being fitted for heaven. Heaven won't be created for each of us according to our base and selfish desires.
That's why I thought the Muslim idea was a particularly good illustration.
The matter of sexual enjoyment is already settled. (And from all indications, there won't be sexual activity in heaven.) It will be what it will be, and "the saved" will be of the state to appreciate God's wisdom and what is present in heaven.
That's what I mean by saying we are being fitted for heaven. Heaven won't be created for each of us according to our base and selfish desires.
That's why I thought the Muslim idea was a particularly good illustration.
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~Anastasia~
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That's fine. And of course each person has the freedom to believe as they like. But these congregational forums have a purpose, and any teaching needs to be in line with what has always been taught and handed down from the Apostles (in our case).
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