God's foreknowledge of events

God saves · Apr 18, 2019

If God knows all things and foreknows all events, what do our choices really determine?

Hypothetically if a child attending church was being seriously abused and God foreknew that the church would take action or not take action, is it God's foreknowledge and allowing something to happen that determines something to happen, or is it people's choicies that determine something?

What is the difference between God's foreknowledge of something, and predestination?

HTacianas · Apr 18, 2019

Interesting question. Foreknowledge of events is the knowledge that an event will happen, regardless of the cause of the event. Predestination is that future events are predetermined, or "programmed" to happen. The strictest of predestination has it that God controls and causes all events to happen.

The bible is filled with prophecies of future events, alluding to the idea that God knows the future in advance, and that He communicates what will happen through His prophets. The bible also tells us that God has predestined for Himself a holy people, and that those people would be the descendants of Abraham. But God has in the past changed His mind about who those specific descendants would be, and has offered His blessings in the future on a conditional basis. That condition usually goes "you behave and I will bless you. You misbehave and I will curse you". The question remains, "how much influence does our behavior have on the future"? The answer to that question is unknown.

So we can say that God knows what His plans are, and He will see that those plans are carried out. We do not know the exact details of those plans or how those plans are subject to change. Peoples' choices have an awful lot to do with it.

Carl Emerson · Apr 18, 2019

We have an assurance that all things work together for good for those who love God and are called according to His purpose. Rom 8:28

God then only allows that which meets this criteria.

Satan does not have free reign but is bound by the limitations of his domain and the authority of the Body of Christ.

We also see from Job that he does not have free access to harm believers.

He is however an arch legalist and will demand access when there is sin unresolved with lack of repentance.

I also believe that the suffering we sometimes see is eclipsed by the Glorious life to come, and we over rate this life and its temporary effects. I dont mean by that, that we ignore the suffering of innocents. We are to bear one another's burdens. We are to mediate His suffering. Col 1:24

I hope something I have said may be helpful.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

Presbyterian Continuist · Apr 18, 2019

The foreknowledge of God means that God knows what is going to happen, but at the same time He gives people the power of choice. Although He knows how people are going to choice, He does not influence their choice because that would take the power of choice away from a person and then that person could not be accountable for the choice. If God manipulated a person's choice, then God would have to take the responsibility for the outcome not the person. But the fact is that we must all give an account of ourselves to God, therefore we have free choice in what we do.

Eloy Craft · Apr 18, 2019

If I created a colony of ants they would act and be as i created them to act and be. It could be said that everything about them is determined by me. If I created a rational being they would be able to act and to be in ways I didn't determine. They would be self determined creatures. Without that power their ability to rationalize is useless to them. They determine their own end. They are subject to God's plan in that, therein, is the end of all things. Though He did not determine their end only God knows the end of all things.

Jonaitis · Apr 18, 2019

Well, foreknowledge is not the same thing as foreseeing, many Christians seem to confuse the two terms. In Scripture, God foreknew or foreknowing is always in connection to an individual rather than their actions, meaning that this kind of knowledge is a personal relation rather than some sort of information gathered beforehand.

We are predestined according to the foreknowledge of God. In other words, we were chosen because God loved us before we were born. Same thing, just said differently.

If someone was to be abused in church, God would have already knew it, not simply from seeing into the future, but because he is aware of all things at all times in every places. He is not confined to time and space, so he doesn't need to look into time and space to determine or see or learn about anything. His omniscience, or all-knowing self, would be aware of it before it happened, while it happens, and after it happened. Whoever committed the crime is to be blamed, but not God.

God saves · Apr 18, 2019

I was not referring to a child hypothetically being abused specifically in the local church but in general, such as potentially in the home or outside the local church and their home.

derpytia · Apr 18, 2019

Something I often have trouble coming to terms with (if I ever come to terms with it at all) is that God not only knows when something terrible is going to happen to you but He actually ORDAINS it. Meaning that He knows it's going to happen and allows it to happen so that He can use it for whatever good He can achieve through it.

I wrestle with this knowledge because though some good has come out of the terrible things that have happened and keep happening to me, the amount of good is nowhere near the amount of bad and it's hard for me to find that bit of good worth all the pain and suffering at the end of the day.

But what do I know? I'm just a human, lower than dust.

Jonaitis · Apr 18, 2019

Oh okay, I just re-read that. Thanks for clarifying.

Dave L · Apr 18, 2019

God's Foreknowledge is based on this. If you assign everything that exists to God alone, we can balance free will and God's sovereignty by saying people freely choose what they want, based on the reasons behind their choices, that God uses to control them.

mark kennedy · Apr 18, 2019

That's actually an interesting question, God's foreknowledge doesn't preclude human will. You will find no where in Scripture where God said he knew everything you were going to do before you did it, that is not Biblical foreknowledge. The word is only used twice in the New Testament:

Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge G4268 of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: (Acts 2:23)

Elect according to the foreknowledge G4268 of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (1 Peter 1:2)

People think of foreknowledge as precognition, it's not. They think of predestination as fate, wrong again. Here the foreknowledge of God predetermined the crucifixion of Christ and the sanctification of the Spirit, even before the foundation of the world. There is nothing here indicating your choice is predetermined, only that if your saved it's through the blood of Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit.

Grace and peace,
Mark

Gregory Thompson · Apr 18, 2019

God's Foreknowledge of something and the concept of neo-platonic pre-destination results in the type of questions asked in the above post.

Since God gave this earth to Adam and then it fell under the dominion of sin shortly after, our trust of God and prayers has a lot to do with God's actual involvement in the now. Your choices totally matter.

JerseyChristianSuperstar · Apr 18, 2019

As a Calvinist, I believe God predestines all events, in both ways direct and indirect.

God directly predestined the Flood of Noah when He chose to flood the world with His supernatural powers; He indirectly predestined the crucifixion and death of His Son when He deliberately had him born to Virgin Mary and deliberately arranged things as to ensure that the Jews and Romans would have Him crucified, by putting them in such situations knowing what they would do, without causing them to do it directly (as God causes no one to sin).

Acts 2:22-23 "“Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also knom—Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death;

Acts 4:27-28 "“For truly against Your holy Servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles and the people of Israel, were gathered together to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose determined before to be done.

Isaiah 46:9-11 "
Remember the former things of old,
For I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like Me,
Declaring the end from the beginning,
And from ancient times things that are not yet done,
Saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
And I will do all My pleasure,’
Calling a bird of prey from the east,
The man who executes My counsel, from a far country.
Indeed I have spoken it;
I will also bring it to pass.
I have purposed it;
I will also do it.

Daniel 4:35 "All the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing;
He does according to His will in the army of heaven
And among the inhabitants of the earth.
No one can restrain His hand
Or say to Him, “What have You done?”

Proverbs 19:21 "There are many plans in a man’s heart,
Nevertheless the Lord’s counsel—that will stand."

Proverbs 21:1 "The king’s heart is in the hand of the Lord,
Like the [a]rivers of water;
He turns it wherever He wishes."

Ephesians 1:11 - God works "who works all things according to the counsel of His will"

So, ultimately, yes, that child being abused is part of God's sovereign plan that He has set in motion from eternity and actively carries out in the here and now. This isn't to say that God caused that young child's abuse at the hands of his abuser, for the Scripture says that God "tempts no one" to sin (James 1:13).

Hope that helped!

God saves · Apr 18, 2019

I was not referring to an actual real-life case but a hypothetical scenario.

Though sadly I believe many children and youth in this world have been mistreated and/or neglected.

God saves · Apr 18, 2019

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Joined2krist · Apr 18, 2019

In the book of Daniel, after He fasted and prayed, God sent an Angel to help him but he couldn't until he defeated satan who tried to hinder him. What I'm trying to say is this; God predestines but there are unforeseen forces that obstruct His will, sometimes they succeed, sometimes they don't. God wouldn't impose his will on us

Carl Emerson · Apr 18, 2019

We were taught by Jesus to pray "Thy will be done on earth as in Heaven...

My take on being born again is that it effectively means He possesses us and we relinquish our rights to His will. We then become more and more subject to His Love and perfect will as we are growing in Him. He has been given our agreement to override our will if necessary for our good.

I think that when Philip was transported from one place to another that this a classic case of His will being sovereign.

Paul not being permitted by the Holy Spirit to go where he wanted is another contrasting case.

Blessings,

Carl Emerson.

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