Good Friday?

GodLovesCats · Apr 17, 2019

Prophet, where do you see weeks plural in Matthew and John?

prophetjul · Apr 17, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
Prophet, where do you see weeks plural in Matthew and John?

σαββάτων Sabbaton.

GodLovesCats · Apr 17, 2019

I asked fo references. Which chapters are they in?

prophetjul · Apr 17, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
I asked fo references. Which chapters are they in?

Mat 28

John 20

Luke 24

prodromos · Apr 17, 2019

prophetjul said:
SO, what happen to the 'day' huh? Why is it plural in John and Matthew?
What is first of the Sabbaths? This is the problem when a geek thinks in Greek, not understanding Hebraisms. And NO, a 3rd grader would not understand it.

Matthew 28 says "μιαν σαββατων". At first glance you might read that as "first [Sabbath] of the Sabbaths" but there is one glaring problem with that. In Greek grammar, an adjective must agree in case, gender, and number with the noun it modifies. The cardinal number "μια" (adjective) is declined in the feminine while "σαββατων" (noun) is neuter. So the elipsis cannot be [Sabbath] but has to be feminine. The only obvious option for the elipsis is [day] since the Greek "ημερα" is feminine. Hence why it is translated as "first [day] of the week"
Luke 24 and John 20 are translated likewise for the same reason.

In the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the superscript of Psalm 24 [23] says "ψαλμος τω Δαυιδ της μιας Σαββατων" - "a psalm of David on the first day of the week". The Talmud records that the Levites sang a particular Psalm on each day of the week, and Psalm 24 is the Psalm they sang on the day after the Sabbath, the first day of the week.

When the temple came to be built in Jerusalem various psalms were sung as part of the daily liturgy. On Monday it was Psalm 48, Tuesday Psalm 82, Wednesday Psalm 94, Thursday Psalm 81, Friday Psalm 93, and on the Sabbath Psalm 92. On the first day of the week they sang Psalm 24. The very day that Jesus tore away the bars of death and marched in triumph from the tomb the temple choir was scheduled to sing this victorious psalm. John Philips, Exploring Psalms: An Expository Commentary. Volume One

GodLovesCats · Apr 17, 2019

Prophet, you just proved my point with those links. Both John and Luke made it clear: "On the first day of the week . . ."

prophetjul · Apr 17, 2019

prodromos said:
Matthew 28 says "μιαν σαββατων". At first glance you might read that as "first [Sabbath] of the Sabbaths" but there is one glaring problem with that. In Greek grammar, an adjective must agree in case, gender, and number with the noun it modifies. The cardinal number "μια" (adjective) is declined in the feminine while "σαββατων" (noun) is neuter. So the elipsis cannot be [Sabbath] but has to be feminine. The only obvious option for the elipsis is [day] since the Greek "ημερα" is feminine. Hence why it is translated as "first [day] of the week"
Luke 24 and John 20 are translated likewise for the same reason.

In the Septuagint, the Greek translation of the Old Testament, the superscript of Psalm 24 [23] says "ψαλμος τω Δαυιδ της μιας Σαββατων" - "a psalm of David on the first day of the week". The Talmud records that the Levites sang a particular Psalm on each day of the week, and Psalm 24 is the Psalm they sang on the day after the Sabbath, the first day of the week.

When the temple came to be built in Jerusalem various psalms were sung as part of the daily liturgy. On Monday it was Psalm 48, Tuesday Psalm 82, Wednesday Psalm 94, Thursday Psalm 81, Friday Psalm 93, and on the Sabbath Psalm 92. On the first day of the week they sang Psalm 24. The very day that Jesus tore away the bars of death and marched in triumph from the tomb the temple choir was scheduled to sing this victorious psalm. John Philips, Exploring Psalms: An Expository Commentary. Volume One

Hint: Koine Greek did not have the word Sabbath.
Next: Give me the Greek phrase for 'first day of the week'.
Next: Sabbatou vs Sabbaton.
Next: The original Gospels were not written in Greek
Next: It is an Hebraism or Hebrew idiom.

prophetjul · Apr 17, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
Prophet, you just proved my point with those links. Both John and Luke made it clear: "On the first day of the week . . ."

You are reading them in English. They are wrongly translated.

GodLovesCats · Apr 17, 2019

prophetjul said:
You are reading them in English. They are wrongly translated.

Of course I am. Everything I read is English. If the translations are incorrect, that is the writer's fault.

prodromos · Apr 17, 2019

prophetjul said:
Hint: Koine Greek did not have the word Sabbath.

Complete nonsense.
[quote Next: Give me the Greek phrase for 'first day of the week'.[/quote]
Already gave you that from Septuagint Psalm 24 (23)

Next: Sabbatou vs Sabbaton.
Next: The original Gospels were not written in Greek

All but one were written in Greek

Next: It is an Hebraism or Hebrew idiom.

Which means "first day of the week" as demonstrated by the Septuagint Psalms and the Talmud.

prophetjul · Apr 17, 2019

prodromos said:
Complete nonsense.
[quote Next: Give me the Greek phrase for 'first day of the week'.

Already gave you that from Septuagint Psalm 24 (23)

All but one were written in Greek

Which means "first day of the week" as demonstrated by the Septuagint Psalms and the Talmud.[/QUOTE]
You are the one with the nonsense.
Koine Greek had NO word for the Sabbath. Get your facts right.
What is 'first day of the week' in Greek? Protos........ finish it.

The original Gospels were not written in Greek.

What does the phrase "first of the Sabbaths" mean? Hebrew Idiom, not GREEK.

GodLovesCats · Apr 17, 2019

prophetjul said:
The original Gospels were not written in Greek.

I alawys heard/read the entire New Testament was written in Greek. Because you are the first to asy that is not true, I would like to see your sources.

prophetjul · Apr 17, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
I alawys heard/read the entire New Testament was written in Greek. Because you are the first to asy that is not true, I would like to see your sources.

Thought you meant English.

prodromos · Apr 18, 2019

prophetjul said:
You are the one with the nonsense.
Koine Greek had NO word for the Sabbath. Get your facts right.

I think perhaps what you are trying to say is Koine Greek had no word for "Sunday"? It definitely has a word for Sabbath.

What is 'first day of the week' in Greek? Protos........ finish it.

It was called "ημέρα Ηλιου" in Greek

The original Gospels were not written in Greek.

Three of them were.

What does the phrase "first of the Sabbaths" mean? Hebrew Idiom, not GREEK.

I've already shown you how the Greek speaking Jews understood it.

prophetjul · Apr 18, 2019

prodromos said:
I think perhaps what you are trying to say is Koine Greek had no word for "Sunday"? It definitely has a word for Sabbath.

No. They adopted Sabbatou/Sabbaton from Hebrew. Do you not agree on this?

It was called "ημέρα Ηλιου" in Greek

This is not "first day of the week"

Three of them were.

Maybe. Maybe not.

I've already shown you how the Greek speaking Jews understood it.

No. You assumed them as Greek speaking.
But you have not shown how a Hebrew thinking Jew would understand it idiomatically.
Sabbaton is plural. It does not translate as week.

prodromos · Apr 18, 2019

prophetjul said:
No. They adopted Sabbatou/Sabbaton from Hebrew. Do you not agree on this?

It was a loan word transliterated from Hebrew centuries before the New Testament was written, so it was definitely part of Kline Greek when the gospels were written .

This is not "first day of the week"

That is what the Greeks used to call Sunday. Now they call it "κυριακη" which is "of the Lord"

Maybe. Maybe not.

Nothing 'maybe' about it.

No. You assumed them as Greek speaking.
But you have not shown how a Hebrew thinking Jew would understand it idiomatically.

The Septuagint was translated by Greek speaking Jews from the Hebrew. If they weren't Greek speaking they would not have been able to translate it. It isn't an assumption, it is stating the bleeding obvious.

Sabbaton is plural. It does not translate as week.

And yet it does.

FireDragon76 · Apr 18, 2019

ViaCrucis said:
The Lord was born while Herod the Great was still alive, Herod's death was in 4 BC.
The Lord suffered under Pontius Pilate who was prefect of Judea from between about 26 AD to 36 AD.

We also know that Pontius Pilate had been prefect for some time during Jesus public ministry. Which makes an early dating unlikely, since Jesus himself refers to past events that happened under Pilate (Tower of Siloam, Pilate killing Galileans worshipping, etc.)

Concord1968 · Apr 18, 2019

prophetjul said:
Already gave you that from Septuagint Psalm 24 (23)

All but one were written in Greek

Which means "first day of the week" as demonstrated by the Septuagint Psalms and the Talmud.
You are the one with the nonsense.
Koine Greek had NO word for the Sabbath. Get your facts right.
What is 'first day of the week' in Greek? Protos........ finish it.

The original Gospels were not written in Greek.

What does the phrase "first of the Sabbaths" mean? Hebrew Idiom, not GREEK.

You're making a lot of assertions without any evidence. How about sourcing your claims?

FireDragon76 · Apr 18, 2019

James Murphy said:
You are the one with the nonsense.
Koine Greek had NO word for the Sabbath. Get your facts right.
What is 'first day of the week' in Greek? Protos........ finish it.

The original Gospels were not written in Greek.

We have no strong evidence they weren't. In Galilee, knowledge of Greek was not rare, it was a lingua franca and that entire region was Hellenized. That's why when people hear about Jesus, they say "Can anything good come from Nazareth"?

Concord1968 · Apr 18, 2019

FireDragon76 said:
We have no strong evidence they weren't. In Galilee, knowledge of Greek was not rare, it was a lingua franca and that entire region was Hellenized. That's why when people hear about Jesus, they say "Can anything good come from Nazareth"?

Hold on. Something messed up the quote. I fixed it.

What you're responding to isn't actually my post, but the post of someone I was quoting.

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