Proverbs 18 and the Church

timewerx said:

Paul's later epistles, including his followers like Timothy is more agreeable to James.

This could mean that Paul's overall context agrees with James - Faith produces fruits (actions)

Often, the problem with the Christian religion is they view the scriptures under a very limited context. Often, cherry-picking in style. This is a very huge problem

To truly understand Paul, you must take his entire teachings into consideration, not just few verses you feel is most agreeable.

Probably the most striking example is that many Christians love quoting Proverbs when it comes to material wealth, completely forgetting about Ecclesiastes...If you wish to truly understand the notion of material wealth, you must also read and understand Ecclesiastes, not just Proverbs. This is why there are many false teachings floating around when they cherry-pick scriptures based on what is agreeable to the flesh which is wrong.

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com7fy8 said:

My opinion is we do well first to pray and trust God to guide us personally. And if we go to visit or attend a church, Jesus expects us to love any and all people there, no matter how it turns out that a church is. And then pray about where God wants us. But where to be is first to be in God's love, all-loving, no favoritism, caring about any and all people, and obey where God takes us.

Jude 1:20-21

1 John 4:17-18

1 Peter 3:13

But in case the leadership is clearly not God's way, we are directed to obey the ones whom God approves > Hebrews 13:17. So, we are not expected to stay where things are not done right by example leaders (1 Peter 5:3, 1 Timothy 3:1-10). There might be wrong people present where there are good leaders, though; but Jesus makes us able to see through the wrong ones, and able to know who the right leaders are > John 10:1-30. And our Apostle Paul, I understand, says he knows the wrong ones will make the approved ones look good > 1 Corinthians 11:19.

And make sure you are "clothed with humility" (1 Peter 5:5) and loving the way Jesus has us relating >

"with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love," (Ephesians 4:2)

You always be ready for love, for sharing with others who love as family in Jesus, and for being a good example to ones who do not know how to love.

I think there is scripture to indicate that where the differences were significant, there was correction so the mistaken leaders did not continue in what was wrong.

For example, in Acts where they talked about if they must keep the Law of Moses, yes there was dispute, but then that was corrected so all were in agreement; so that did not keep going on and on and on > Acts 15.

Also, when Peter misled the leaders to discriminate against the Christians who had been Gentiles, Paul corrected that. And I think we can see how Peter learned from his errors and became mature so he could write his two epistles . . . my opinion.

Also, we have how Paul and Barnabas had a fight about what to do with Mark > Acts 15:39. But later we see how Paul says to bring a "Mark" because he is good for ministering > 2 Timothy 4:11. What I see possible is how Barnabas was more mature than Paul; and so he did not give up on Mark; then he helped Mark until Mark could return to Paul and both could do more maturely.

So, I consider that when there were differences, the Holy Spirit changed and corrected people to obey how God wants us to love.

Well, James is the only writer who calls Jesus "of glory" > James 2:1. And twice he calls Jesus "Lord".

And he starts right off with how tribulations can be for our joy, which Jesus has clearly said. Plus, his description of "wisdom" (James 3:13-18) is a match with our Apostle Paul's description of love, in 1 Corinthians 13, and how we become in the character of Jesus growing in us.

Plus, where James gives examples of works which need to accompany faith, these examples are not works of the Law of Moses. But there is personal loving involved in these works which James uses as examples of what God's way of faith will have us doing - - - in "faith working through love" (in Galatians 5:6), like Paul says.

James's teachings are dealing with how we need to become real in God's own way of being in our character and how we need to become in loving. James will give a very strong confrontation against what is anti-love, then give a strong encouragement about all we can have with God, instead. All through his epistle, there is the one-two style, of first confronting what is really deeply wrong with people, then all we can have with God, instead, in genuine loving.

So, I think it is not correct to say James is focusing on the Law of Moses. Plus, his teachings are a match with things Jesus said in His Sermon on the Mount, plus all He communicated by His example. And the need for character change, not only changing behavior, is seen all through what James says.

Plus, I think James is the only one who says anything like >

"Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

To me, this is clear that we need to personally submit to God Himself in us, and then stay with God all the time, and not be taking ourselves and things into our own hands and ability. Or else, how can we be submitting to and depending on God??

But there are people who do not want to deal with such deep correction and being personally submissive to God in all we do, and caring about all others as well as we care about our own selves. And so they can be motivated to make James look like he is about something else . . . and so they can keep attention away from all which is required by this epistle.

So, I would say James is very much about Jesus, including by encouraging us into all which comes because of Jesus living in us. And Peter and Paul are likewise. The result they all are encouraging is the same.

By the way > have you fed on Jude? This is mature and concise, with plenty to help us get real with God and how He has us loving, also.

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Ttalkkugjil said:

After their own desire seeks the odd person, against counsel they set themself.

That is, they who go their own way out of opposition to all that's established among people seek only their own selfish interest.

A fool delights in their heart discovering itself, for they believe it to be their duty to tell the world their greatness.

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